Victron Orion Engine Shutdown Detection... Is it worth it?

[FilterGuy]

One of the selling features of the Victron Orion TR Smart is that it watches the voltages on the starter battery side and will turn on when it sees a voltage indicating the alternator is running. The selling point is that you don't have to have a separate control telling the Orion to turn on/off. This sounds great but in practice, it may not work so well.

Example 1: If you have a Victron Multi-plus with the 2nd-battery (starter battery) trickle charge feature, it might trigger the Orion to turn on even if the engine is not running..... and that can drain your starter battery.

Example 2: If your vehicle is going to sit for a while (common for an RV), you might decide to put a trickle charger on the starter battery.... and this can cause the Orion to turn on.

(These are both events that I have seen happen)

On a recent build, I tried to find a turn-on voltage and turn-off voltage for the ORION that would not trigger this type of issue.... but gave up and ended up having the ACC (key on) signal wired to the H-pin of the ORION jumper. This means that if the key is off, the Orion is off. Furthermore, the Orion will not turn on unless the key is on. However, I left the engine-detection-by-voltage on as well. This way, if you just turn the key on and not start the engine, the Orion does not turn on. Instead, the Orion waits till it sees Vcc and a voltage indicating the alternator is on.

Have others observed this issue? What was your solution?

 

[Ranger Rick]

FilterGuy,
Excellent overview of Victron’s DC2DC challenges. I tried a few approaches also (“in practice”) with results that weren’t static/consistent. I decided to use a resettable 60amp breaker near the battery and manually switch it off. I’m thinking about putting the breaker in the cab of my truck for easier access.

 

[HRTKD]

If the Orion and the Multiplus were connected to a Cerbo GX, do you think there would be enough smarts in the system for the Orion to figure out that the Multiplus is providing the charge to the starter battery?

There isn't a lot of documentation on the trickle charger of the Multiplus. At least, not in the Victron manual. I have yet to connect my Victron's trickle charger to the starter battery for my generator. But it's on my list of things to do.

 

[FilterGuy]

If the Orion and the Multiplus were connected to a Cerbo GX, do you think there would be enough smarts in the system for the Orion to figure out that the Multiplus is providing the charge to the starter battery?

I really don't know. As you say, there is not much documentation on the starter trickle charge..... Add the complexity of the Cerbo and it gets almost impossible to guess what happens. That is why I like controlling it with the ACC. With the ACC hooked up, I *know* what is going to happen.

 

[Browneye]

I used the 'h' switch on the orion. When I turn the key on I start the engine.
If I was to do some kind of maintenance or troubleshooting where I didn't want the orion to power on, it's easy to simply turn it off in the app.

 

[fratermus]

having the ACC (key on) signal wired to the H-pin of the ORION jumper. This means that if the key is off, the Orion is off. Furthermore, the Orion will not turn on unless the key is on. However, I left the engine-detection-by-voltage on as well. This way, if you just turn the key on and not start the engine, the Orion does not turn on.

I think this is a good solution, and not difficult to add during the install.

I did on my VSR because of a related issue: it can get held open by solar charging of the house battery.

 

[featherlite]

I really don't know. As you say, there is not much documentation on the starter trickle charge..... Add the complexity of the Cerbo and it gets almost impossible to guess what happens. That is why I like controlling it with the ACC. With the ACC hooked up, I *know* what is going to happen.

View attachment 106714

In the above linked image:

What does “ACC” mean?

What does “VCC” mean?

I have googled and then searched my Orion manual but find nothing.

 

[FilterGuy]

VCC was a typo. It should have sain ACC.

ACC stands for ACCessory on the car/truck. This is a line that is hot when the key is on but turns off when the key is off.

By hooking it up the way shown, the Orion will always be off when the vehicle is off.

The Orions have an elaborate 'engine sense' to detect when the engine is running based on the incoming voltage. The algorithm in the orrion tries to compensate and not shut off due to high current causing a voltage drop across the line. Some people seem to have good luck with that, but I have had issues with it. Consequently I like the simple algorithm of ACC ON = Orion ON

 

[featherlite]

Thank you filter guy.

 

[Raul a/3]

Best way is to find the D+ life signal, then connect that to H terminal. On smart alternators you have a simulated D+, but on older alternators it’s a true D+. Only comes on after you started the engine.