Victron Orion XS 12/50

[WorldwideDave]

The device supports 50A output.
I thought it was a buck boost device where when I put in 14.6 V and 25A you would get a 12V charge at 50A.

Is that how it is supposed to work? Not seeing that.
Seems to match whatever amps I send in.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

The device supports 50A output.

and 50A input.

I thought it was a buck boost device

A little.

where when I put in 14.6 V and 25A you would get a 12V charge at 50A.

Impossible.

14.6V * 25A = 365W

You expect to get 12V * 50A = 600W

You can't get 600W of power out of 365W of input.

 

[rhino]

You can't get 600W of power out of 365W of input.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Impossible.
14.6V * 25A = 365W
You expect to get 12V * 50A = 600W
You can't get 600W of power out of 365W of input.

Thank you so much. Just learning about these devices. I bought one not knowing what all it is capable of obliviously. Sorry for all the questions. Read the manual and cannot figure out a few things.

I think it is great that it shows up in the remote admin console pages.

Strange that it does not in the VRM interface.

So it is a step-up converter, but only sometimes when the voltage difference is greater than it is right now, and not many amps?

If I have the alternator output at 14.6 VDC and 25A going INTO the Orion XS, on the output side the battery it is trying to charge is at 12.6VDC (2 volts less), I should never expect the output amps to exceed about 26A?

I don't know why I thought it was a step-up converter. I thought it had some sort of CC/CV in it. It sounds to me like it will only charge the battery at or near 50A *if* the Orion's input receives 50A. Is this correct?

If this is all correct, or close to correct, then I now know why sometimes people attach 2 of these devices to their system to push more amps to their house batteries as they drive in a RV/Camper.

Next, I believe the purpose of this device is to safely charge lithium or other chemistry batteries from the vehicle's alternator, because if you just connected the output directly from the alternator without this device (pushing all the amps it could into the house batteries) it would not know when to stop charging safely, which is what this device primarily does - safely charges a house battery.

Also, if my RV's 12V 200Ah house battery was at 10% SOC, but I could only charge at 25A with the Orion XS while driving down the road, it would take about 7 hours 25 minutes to charge back to 100%. If I had 2 orions at that same 25A rate, it would take about 3 hours and 35 minutes to charge. I like that better.

Finally, does the solar typically charge the house battery while driving, too? The MPPT is just left on and hopefully there's some sun at the right angle while driving between campgrounds?

Screenshots of VRM Dashboard and Remote Admin Console (venus GUI v2)

 

[Brucey]

Also, if my RV's 12V 200Ah house battery was at 10% SOC, but I could only charge at 25A with the Orion XS while driving down the road, it would take about 7 hours 25 minutes to charge back to 100%. If I had 2 orions at that same 25A rate, it would take about 3 hours and 35 minutes to charge. I like that better.

Why not run the xs with a 50A input limit configured? And then add a second if 50A is not sufficient.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Why not run the xs with a 50A input limit configured? And then add a second if 50A is not sufficient.

the input limit can be adjusted, true. I was just asking my question to better understand how the product works in a lab situation. static RPMs to keep input voltage constant, for example.
The issue is that even if you allow the input amps to be 50A, in a lab situation, the input is actually a DC power supply set to 14.6V and just 25A output.
What you're saying is that when installed in a RV and connected to an alternator, at 2,600 RPMs the alternator will output 150A, 50A will be used by the chassis (lights, running engine, wipers, etc), 100A will be available to the orion XS (single unit), the device will have 50A on the input side set, and it should be no issue getting 50A to the house batteries from the orion xs safely. Am I correct, Bruce?

 

[Brucey]

the input limit can be adjusted, true. I was just asking my question to better understand how the product works in a lab situation. static RPMs to keep input voltage constant, for example.
The issue is that even if you allow the input amps to be 50A, in a lab situation, the input is actually a DC power supply set to 14.6V and just 25A output.
What you're saying is that when installed in a RV and connected to an alternator, at 2,600 RPMs the alternator will output 150A, 50A will be used by the chassis (lights, running engine, wipers, etc), 100A will be available to the orion XS (single unit), the device will have 50A on the input side set, and it should be no issue getting 50A to the house batteries from the orion xs safely. Am I correct, Bruce?

Yes. So I believe the input limit is there so if you have an undersized alternator you can keep the impact of adding the charger to a minimum. You could also drop the input amps down when just parked idling and charging, and then ramp up to full when you are driving and alternate output is higher. The output limit is in case you have a smaller battery to charge.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Yes. So I believe the input limit is there so if you have an undersized alternator you can keep the impact of adding the charger to a minimum. You could also drop the input amps down when just parked idling and charging, and then ramp up to full when you are driving and alternate output is higher.

Too bad there isn't an RPM sensor or way for it to scale it up. For example, 10A when voltage output of alternator is low, but 50A when output is high. What you're suggesting is good, but would require connecting and tweaking from the drivers seat - not safe (or legal here) if in motion.

The output limit is in case you have a smaller battery to charge.

smaller battery to charge - as in a single 12V 100Ah battery might not like 50A coming at it?

 

[Brucey]

smaller battery to charge - as in a single 12V 100Ah battery might not like 50A coming at it?

Yes.

 

[WorldwideDave]

and 50A input.

How well do you know this device? I ran my battery down to nearly 10% SOC last night on purpose running the pool pump at max speed for about 100 minutes. Fired up the bench power supply (alternator) at 12V 25A, and the Orion XS 12/12/50 came alive and started charging at 25A. There are no loads connected to my system.
Woke up and XS was no longer outputting anything.
SOC of battery was just 81%, kind of expected 100%. voltage is at 13.86
Sun is hitting MPPTs so they're starting to charge.
Drilled into the orion XS settings in VRM.
input voltage is 14.6V, 0 amps, 0 watts.
output voltage is 13.86V, 0 amps, 1 W, and it is 'storage' mode.
No errors.
When I look into the charge cycle history, I see it completed the charge successfully. I think the history is showing me that it started at 12.03V, and ended at 14.21V. I had set it to stop at 14.2V, which I think is correct.
According to my math it should have taken 7.5 hours to charge it back. It took twice that. Displays elapsed time of 15 hours and 3 minutes - that would be 2 days of driving. My guess is that at some point during the charge cycle, it went from 25A down to something lower (?) maybe in absorption phase? I don't know.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

If you connect with bluetooth, can you see the actual battery voltage and current on the trends tab?

 

[S Davis]

My victron charges to what it thinks is 80% and then drops the charging amps for the last 20%, I run two dc/dc chargers, one Redarc 12/12/50 and one victron 12/12/50.

 

[WorldwideDave]

If you connect with bluetooth, can you see the actual battery voltage and current on the trends tab?

Does this get you what you were asking?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Does this get you what you were asking?

If you connect with bluetooth, can you see the actual battery voltage and current on the trends tab?

This says 7 hours vs. the 15 you referenced earlier, different cycle?:

 

[WorldwideDave]

View attachment 286923

This says 7 hours vs. the 15 you referenced earlier, different cycle?:

View attachment 286926

Input and output

 

[WorldwideDave]

View attachment 286923

This says 7 hours vs. the 15 you referenced earlier, different cycle?:

View attachment 286926

Here are all the screenshots from VRM. I honestly have no idea where the number is coming from. It in VRM I thought what it was saying is that it had been running for 15 hours to charge. Maybe it means the cumulative number of how long the alternator has been on, as in incoming voltage.

 

[Brucey]

Here are all the screenshots from VRM. I honestly have no idea where the number is coming from. It in VRM I thought what it was saying is that it had been running for 15 hours to charge. Maybe it means the cumulative number of how long the alternator has been on, as in incoming voltage.

This is saying the charger has been connected to the battery for 19 hours and 7 minutes (its like the lifetime kwh counter out of an scc), but the last charge cycle was 7 hours and 2 minutes.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Input and output

Input is of no concern.

It appears you've only graphed 1 minute of data. You would need to zoom out and capture the timescale of the charge event.

There appears to be a discrepancy between VRM and VictronConnect reporting charge cycle time. I would trust VC over VRM.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Input is of no concern.

It appears you've only graphed 1 minute of data. You would need to zoom out and capture the timescale of the charge event.

There appears to be a discrepancy between VRM and VictronConnect reporting charge cycle time. I would trust VC over VRM.

Oh I thought it only captured that from the time you hit the tab. I am accessing via Corbin in VC. Think your saying with Bluetooth and being nearby it I can see that history trend. Will check when home.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Oh I thought it only captured that from the time you hit the tab. I am accessing via Corbin in VC. Think your saying with Bluetooth and being nearby it I can see that history trend. Will check when home.

Yes. When accessing via VictronConnect through VRM, only live data is shown. The BT modules stores 46 days worth of data on the VC trends tab.

FWIW, I expect the same information is available in the VRM advanced tab for that charger.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Yes. When accessing via VictronConnect through VRM, only live data is shown. The BT modules stores 46 days worth of data on the VC trends tab.

FWIW, I expect the same information is available in the VRM advanced tab for that charger.

Thank you it is below for that timeframe.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

That looks a fairly regular bulk/absorption charge.

 

[WorldwideDave]

That looks a fairly regular bulk/absorption charge.

So what we have concluded is that the history in remote console, where it shows here 15 hours, is highly inaccurate as we concluded in VC it ran for half that long.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

So what we have concluded is that the history in remote console, where it shows here 15 hours, is highly inaccurate as we concluded in VC it ran for half that long.

Either that, or the two values are calculated differently.

The apparent bulk/absorption cycle looks to be about 7-ish hours; however, the charging that occurred between bulk/absorption and float looks to be around 15-ish hours.