Victron Phoenix Inverter for 240V Split Phase in USA?

Old_Skewler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
159
I am searching for a 24V/48V @ 2,000W to 4,000W inverter with 240V Split Phase output.

I suspect there is something like "European 230V" and "American 240V Split Phase" in the electrical world and I am caught right there in the middle of it without the ability to make sense out of this.

Victron has two inverters that could fit my project but I can't tell if they would work with "American 240V Split Phase".

Could someone with more experience please clarify whether these two inverters would work in a 240V Split Phase application?

Victron Phoenix 48-1200 > Output Voltage: 230VAC or 120VAC:

1640797703494.png

Victron Phoenix 48 - 2000 > Output Voltage: 230VAC:
1640797775708.png

Thanks in advance!
 

Tecnodave

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
886
If it does not state ....120/240 split phase it is not capable of 120/240 split phase

These inverters are for the european single phase market, Find an American brand, they will be 120 volt or 120/240 split phase

Magnasine
Outback
Schneider

many others

all are American companies catering to the American split phase marketplace

Split phase is not used anywhere else in the world.....
 
Last edited:

Old_Skewler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
159
If it does not state ....120/240 split phase it is not capable of 120/240 split phase

These inverters are for the european single phase market, Find an American brand, they will be 120 volt or 120/240 split phase

Magnasine
Outback
Schneider

many others

all are American companies catering to the American split phase marketplace

Split phase is not used anywhere else in the world.....

Understood and it seems like my intuition was correct: 230VAC is not the same as 120/240 split phase.

Thanks!
 

houseofancients

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
1,136
If it does not state ....120/240 split phase it is not capable of 120/240 split phase

These inverters are for the european single phase market, Find an American brand, they will be 120 volt or 120/240 split phase

Magnasine
Outback
Schneider

many others

all are American companies catering to the American split phase marketplace

Split phase is not used anywhere else in the world.....
or simply buy a transformer that does splitfase
 

houseofancients

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
1,136
For the love of God please don't do this, it's a cheap lash up for not buying proper equipment for your region.
seems to work fine for growatts, and deye's and many more.
most inverters 120/240 use a transformer internally...
 

Quattrohead

Solar Addict
Joined
Oct 13, 2021
Messages
269
Except it does not work fine, see all the threads here with people having floating neutral issues and wondering how to protect equipment from blowing up if the transformer fails or the breaker trips and you lose that neutral.
Now a proper isolation transformer that cost's proper money and the fully integrated built into the inverter, those are great.
Just coz something turns on and lights up does not mean it is SAFE and RELIABLE.
 

Old_Skewler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
159
I must disclose that we are a dealer of Victron Energy, but I'm answering this question as technical support. I could be wrong, without further researching this and getting some clarification from you.

I see you guys are located in the US and distributes Victron. I am VERY confused by their website product line and specs, which shows most if not all products in 230VAC and 50Hz.

Is there another Victron site for US products? I suspect https://www.victronenergy.com/ is for the European market?

I would like to find a solution within the Victron family but for that I need to locate the correct spec sheets for the US market.
 

Tecnodave

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
886
My Magnasine MS4024AE can do 120 volts or 120/240 split phase input and do 120/240 split phase output....in pass through or invert mode, but not 240 volt single phase input.....designed for the american market

The newer MS4024PAE and the MS4048PAE can also do this as well as the MS4024AE and MS4048AE
 

Tracerocks

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
19
My Magnasine MS4024AE can do 120 volts or 120/240 split phase input and do 120/240 split phase output....in pass through or invert mode, but not 240 volt single phase input.....designed for the american market

The newer MS4024PAE and the MS4048PAE can also do this as well as the MS4024AE and MS4048AE
Im looking for a solution like this. I want to run a 240 volt mini split as well as some 120 v appliances.

I also want a shore line power to charge 24v battery bank. Is it possible to have 120 v shore power coming in while inverter is outputting 240 v?
 

Dzl

Perpetual Newbie & Unofficial Forum Librarian
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
5,089
I see you guys are located in the US and distributes Victron. I am VERY confused by their website product line and specs, which shows most if not all products in 230VAC and 50Hz.
Most of their products are 230VAC / 50Hz. There is not another site as far as I know. But there are many 120V products on their website. Victron Phoenix, Multiplus, Quattro, and Multiplus-II and of course all the DC stuff is available for the Norht American market, possibly other products also. But unfortunately there are a lot of Victron goodies that are slow to make their way to the North American market, or never make it here, or are only available in a limited number of options.

As far as I know, Victron doesn't make split phase stuff. I believe the two options for split phase with Victron are to either use an inverter/charger+autotransformer or two inverter/chargers together. Neither option is especially cheap.
 

Tecnodave

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
886
Im looking for a solution like this. I want to run a 240 volt mini split as well as some 120 v appliances.

I also want a shore line power to charge 24v battery bank. Is it possible to have 120 v shore power coming in while inverter is outputting 240 v?
YES.....The models that I listed can do that....only the AE and PAE models of the Magnasine and the Schneider XP4024

I do have a Magnasine MS4024 AE which can output 120/240 split phase in pass through mode with only 120 volts in.
The maximum pass through is limited to 120 v. X 30 amps 3600 watts either 120 or 120/240 split phase output
Input power must be on L1

I have no expereince with the SchneiderXP4024 but according to the docs it can

Notes on the Magnasine....It qualifies L1 to N first, then L2 to N. If it does not find power at L1 to N , this terminates startup, no pass through......It DOES NOT....qualify L1 to L2 so cannot use 240 volts single phase input

The primary of the power transformer is center tapped and this winding is used for both battery charging , invert , and pass through. Works like an Autotransformer on the primary. The secondary is 32 volts (approx) or 64 volts for the 48 volt version

CAUTION........when using 120 volts in on L1 the INPUT....terminal L2 will be “live” 240 volts from L1 so If switching from two sources one 120 volt and the other 120/240 volts this MUST be taken into account

Additionally, L1 and L2 must be 180 degrees out of phase...(i.e. split phase)...so no using one 120 volt generator on L1 and one 120 volt generator on L2 also NO 2 legs of a three phase source
 

Tecnodave

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
886
ALSO ....when using only 120 volts output with 120/240 volts in the input power will be 120/240 with current balancing...Its in the design of the Magnasine transformer that balances the loads...
 

Old_Skewler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
159
My Magnasine MS4024AE can do 120 volts or 120/240 split phase input and do 120/240 split phase output....in pass through or invert mode, but not 240 volt single phase input.....designed for the american market

The newer MS4024PAE and the MS4048PAE can also do this as well as the MS4024AE and MS4048AE

Very good recommendation! I've read the entire documentation for the Magnum MS4448PAE series and it seems like a very solid product, i could tell by the quality and detail of the installation guides and manual.

I was not able to find the AE series product page, not sure why. Do you know the main difference between PAE & AE series? Also, did you choose to install the MMP Enclosure Kit? I believe it takes care of the DC disconnect breaker & DC shunt.

Which add-ons did you end up using with your system? I am considering moving forward with the MS4448PAE and the following additional components:

- Solar Charger: Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/45A
- AGS, Generator Auto Start: Magnum ME-AGS
- Battery Monitor: ME-BMK
 

Old_Skewler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
159
Most of their products are 230VAC / 50Hz. There is not another site as far as I know. But there are many 120V products on their website. Victron Phoenix, Multiplus, Quattro, and Multiplus-II and of course all the DC stuff is available for the Norht American market, possibly other products also. But unfortunately there are a lot of Victron goodies that are slow to make their way to the North American market, or never make it here, or are only available in a limited number of options.

As far as I know, Victron doesn't make split phase stuff. I believe the two options for split phase with Victron are to either use an inverter/charger+autotransformer or two inverter/chargers together. Neither option is especially cheap.

Very clear response, thank you. You seem to know their product, maybe I could pick your brains: any big winner between the Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/45A Charger x MagnaSine PT-100? Or both comparable?

TIA!
 

sunshine_eggo

Happy Breffast!
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
4,014
Location
USA
I believe, without further research, that you can parallel two of these for what you are requiring, If I understand your question. Here is a link to the Phonenix 24-3000 inverter. Victron has many parameters that you can adjust such as frequency and such.

I must disclose that we are a dealer of Victron Energy, but I'm answering this question as technical support. I could be wrong, without further researching this and getting some clarification from you.

Cheers.


No Victron product offers split phase.

Phoenix inverters are almost never what you want because they are not chargers.

For the love of God please don't do this, it's a cheap lash up for not buying proper equipment for your region.

It's a common solution - get a 230VAC/50Hz unti, configure for 240V/60Hz and us a Victron autotransformer.

My Magnasine MS4024AE can do 120 volts or 120/240 split phase input and do 120/240 split phase output....in pass through or invert mode, but not 240 volt single phase input.....designed for the american market

The newer MS4024PAE and the MS4048PAE can also do this as well as the MS4024AE and MS4048AE

Friend has MS4024PAE for split phase. It would have likely been my choice had I not already been goo goo over Victron. Unfortunately, he's having trouble with his. During solar absorption charging, it drops to 58.3Hz for several hours, and all his clocks lose 8 minutes until it resets to 60Hz. Magnum has not been particularly helpful in resolving. It's been weeks.
 

Old_Skewler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
159
Friend has MS4024PAE for split phase. It would have likely been my choice had I not already been goo goo over Victron. Unfortunately, he's having trouble with his. During solar absorption charging, it drops to 58.3Hz for several hours, and all his clocks lose 8 minutes until it resets to 60Hz. Magnum has not been particularly helpful in resolving. It's been weeks.
What is he using for solar charger and has he ruled the charger out as a possible culprit?
 

Tecnodave

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
886
The AE models are discontinued, the PAE models are the replacements and have a bunch more features that the AE models did not have. I bought my MS4024AE for $500 used with a minor problem, the fans will not shut off. The replacement board was way too much so I swapped out the fans for the smallest ones that the logic board would accept. Then added 2 booster fans that are temperature speed controlled that boost cooling when needed.
I bought a Midnight e-panel that the Magnasine is mounted on for $100 on the wind-sun forum , It does the same thing as the Magnasine e box does, contains the breakers, shunt, inverter bypass switches, etc. and all the extras so I have about $700 in the whole thing, Really happy with it, starts very deep well pump lifting water 320-420 feet without a hitch but the voltage does sag for 15 seconds or so during startup. The pump really is at the max for the 4000 watt Magnasine on startup but is about 2800 watts run time, 3 hp. 240 volt 3 wire pump, (not 120/240 split phase) I have never seen that pump, allededly down there -480 feet or so the property records state, It runs, Im not pulling that out unless I have to.
 

Tecnodave

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
886
What is he using for solar charger and has he ruled the charger out as a possible culprit?
I cannot imagine how a separate charge controller would affect the frequency of the inverter, it’s not related in any way. I have heard that the frequency stability varies with a huge load but I do not track the frequency. My clocks do not get time from AC frequency, They are GPS synced...
 

Old_Skewler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
159
The AE models are discontinued, the PAE models are the replacements and have a bunch more features that the AE models did not have. I bought my MS4024AE for $500 used with a minor problem, the fans will not shut off. The replacement board was way too much so I swapped out the fans for the smallest ones that the logic board would accept. Then added 2 booster fans that are temperature speed controlled that boost cooling when needed.
I bought a Midnight e-panel that the Magnasine is mounted on for $100 on the wind-sun forum , It does the same thing as the Magnasine e box does, contains the breakers, shunt, inverter bypass switches, etc. and all the extras so I have about $700 in the whole thing, Really happy with it, starts very deep well pump lifting water 320-420 feet without a hitch but the voltage does sag for 15 seconds or so during startup. The pump really is at the max for the 4000 watt Magnasine on startup but is about 2800 watts run time, 3 hp. 240 volt 3 wire pump, (not 120/240 split phase) I have never seen that pump, allededly down there -480 feet or so the property records state, It runs, Im not pulling that out unless I have to.
That is a very nice deal you got there. I suspect this is not your first rodeo with these battery systems.

Once that pump dies, and i hope it will be decades from now, would you consider adding a VFD to the pump replacement?

And just out of curiosity, how do you get 240V 3 Ph connected to the AE?
 
Top