Victron Phoenix Inverter for 240V Split Phase in USA?

Tecnodave

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The 3 wire pump is common, start, run. very common in submersibles, the control box is up top so three wires from pump to control box, Start windings is controlled by control box up top, senses pump speed by current.

Q2....No, mine does not vary in frequency depending on battery charge state, When Im pumping I have 2 banks of L-16’s and two Classic 150 controllers at about 2200 watts each. But when I do not have huge loads, battery systems are seperate. One set is Rolls Surette S-530 L-16’s @426 a.h. 19 1/2 y.o. Other is Interstate traction L-16’s at 426 a.h. 20+ y.o. One Classic on each bank with a bit different settings on each. The Rolls want 30.0 on eq. the Interstate is 28.8, they are not matched and work better seperated. When I pump water it’s for 4-5 hours to a 10,000 gallon tank

Basically what I have is two seperate power systems that can be paralleled for maximum power but mostly run as a 100% redundant system, A system is primary one week, then B system for one week, for long life, redundancy. In 20 years only lost power one time, Standby inverter Cotek SK1500 gave it up with no warning. Automation switched to MagnaSine, It did 12 years so it did its job. Now use Exeltech inverters, two of them XP-1100 and XP-600 (one at a time) for ultra low EMI/RFI and to run a very nessecary medical device. None of the inverters are ever paralled.

I was born on a homestead in the Matanauska Valley Alaska off grid.....we had 3400 a.h. 2 volt submarine batteries in a 32 volt DC system with a WWII Navy Onan DC generator, Hamilton Beach 32 volt DC appliances, and refrigerator, washing machine and all.....32 volts

Worked at Alaska Husky Battery in Fairbanks Alaska building batteries that would start your car at 70 below...to help pave my way through college....electrical engineering....grad ‘66
Just a little bit of off grid expereince, ya think!
 

sunshine_eggo

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What is he using for solar charger and has he ruled the charger out as a possible culprit?

How could a completely separate solar charge controller in no way interfaced with an inverter cause an inverter to change it's operating frequency?
 

Tecnodave

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Well......maybe if you had cheep chit, it might.....

My Midnight,Magnasine,Trace,Exeltech,Samlex,Rolls-Surette system does not change in frequency and stay there, the magnasine does droop in voltage a bit when loaded momentarily, but not enough to notice, The Exeltech does not, its very rock steady no matter the load or voltage
 

sunshine_eggo

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The charge controllers are FM80s. Hardly cheep chit. :)

There is a second 6kW inverter attached to the same bank dedicated to his 3hp deep well pump (MS4024PAE doesn't come close to being able to start the pump). On the days this inverter is driving the pump and pulling the battery down 10-20% in SoC @ 188A, the Magnum DOESN'T exhibit the frequency change even when the FM80s are in absorption mode later in the day.

Magnum support is a bit lackluster at the moment. Allowing several days between responses even before the holiday.

I'm sure it will get sorted, and my buddy is only mildly annoyed. He's otherwise happy with the unit.
 

Tecnodave

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Like I said, I havent heard of battery voltage affecting frequency on any system....I do know the FM 80 very well as well as all the well known quality hardware. It no longer suprises me the faults that pop up in undocumented stuff.

I do see input voltage affecting output voltage, The Magnasine is well known for that. It will take some 10 seconds to settle down when heavily loaded

One of my inverters has a crystal, I assume that is the frequency clock, but as schematics for this equipment does not exist AFAIK, If you have a real schematic I would love to have it.

Exactly when has Magnum Energy be anything but lackluster or do you mean more lackluster than usual.

So are you saying that the pump is not driven by the Magnasine?
 

sunshine_eggo

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Like I said, I havent heard of battery voltage affecting frequency on any system....I do know the FM 80 very well as well as all the well known quality hardware. It no longer suprises me the faults that pop up in undocumented stuff.

I do see input voltage affecting output voltage, The Magnasine is well known for that. It will take some 10 seconds to settle down when heavily loaded

Would agree. This Hz change is independent of load. Drops to 58.3, holds for several hours, raise back to 60Hz after about 3 hours in float.

Exactly when has Magnum Energy be anything but lackluster or do you mean more lackluster than usual.

I don't have experience with them either way. :)

So are you saying that the pump is not driven by the Magnasine?

Yes. I thought I made that clear.

Normal daily household use: 6-9kWh (Magnum powered)
Pump use: 4-8kWh/day 2-3 days per week (Sigineer powered)
24kWh battery bank.

Non pumping day:
MS4024PAE drops to 58.3Hz sometime during the absorption phase.
Returns to 60Hz about 7 hours later, 3-4 hours after float.

Pumping day:
Completely separate 6kW Sigineer inverter runs deep well pump at about 4kW draw from battery for 1-2 hours.
The only thing the two inverters have in common is the 24V battery.
Solar (2-2.5kW) usually offsets about 50% of the pump load.
10-20% of battery capacity is consumed during pumping.
Battery voltage remains above 24V during pumping.
Absorption is clearly delayed 1-2 hours.
On these days, the Magnasine doesn't enter the 58.3Hz "mode".

Nothing about it makes sense.

The only feedback Magnum has had so far is to perform a soft reset. No change.

At this point, we're probably looking firmly at a threadjack. :)
 

Tecnodave

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It is not at all clear to me why the frequency would change like that, I have never seen that with the MS4024 AE
There are some very clear differences between the AE models and the PAE models, one is the ability to load share that I have heard that the PAE is capable of, Another difference if the clock itself as the PAE can be paralleled, the AE cannot be paralleled, Almost all models of this line both the 120 only versions , the 230 versions and the 120/240 split phase can be paralleled, AFAIK only the MS4024AE and MS4048AE models cannot be paralled, that tells me the clock circuits are very different, but I have no schematic diagrams of any inverter that I have owned.
 

mercifullyfree

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Mar 13, 2022
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Except it does not work fine, see all the threads here with people having floating neutral issues and wondering how to protect equipment from blowing up if the transformer fails or the breaker trips and you lose that neutral.
Now a proper isolation transformer that cost's proper money and the fully integrated built into the inverter, those are great.
Just coz something turns on and lights up does not mean it is SAFE and RELIABLE.
We cannot protect folks from their own incompetence - not said disparagingly - we've all been incompetent at some point. Key word is "proper isolation transformer..." Various methods for deriving neutral have been successfully used literally for decades.
 
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