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Victron Question

I am curious if anyone has ever cut the heatshrink off the temp sensors to see what is inside besides the thermistor ... seems like a lot of heatshrink for one tiny glass bead and a wire.
 
WorldwideDave said:
No worries - the temp sensor? No.
I don't think the cerbo allows a wired temp sensor. that's what the battery monitor or shunts are for.
Not sure if fact, but here's what AI says:

No, you cannot wire a Victron temperature sensor directly to the Cerbo GX without an interface. The Cerbo GX does not have a direct input for temperature sensors like the Victron Temperature Sensor ASS000001000 (which is a simple resistive sensor).
Options for Connecting a Temperature Sensor to the Cerbo GX:
  1. Use a Victron GX Tank 140
    • If you need multiple temperature readings, you can use the GX Tank 140, which has resistive inputs that can read temperature sensors (such as NTC sensors).
  2. Use a SmartShunt or BMV Battery Monitor
    • The Victron SmartShunt or BMV-712 can measure battery temperature if you connect the temperature sensor to it. The Cerbo GX can then read the temperature data from the SmartShunt/BMV over VE.Direct.
  3. Use a Victron MPPT Charge Controller
    • Some Victron MPPT controllers have temperature sensor inputs, and the data can be sent to the Cerbo GX.
  4. Use a Third-Party Sensor with MODBUS or MQTT
    • If you are comfortable with customization, you could use a MODBUS RTU temperature sensor or an MQTT-based sensor to send temperature data to the Cerbo GX.
Click to expand...
I have a cerbo gx with hard wired temp sensor. It's an lm335 if you want to make your own.
 
740GLE said:
In all the testing you did on advice from us, I don’t think you ever mentioned the heat came from victron voltage and temp sensor.

One way you could try and prove this is create a jumper/stand off of a couple ring terminals and say 10awg. Have the voltage/temp sensor stood off the actual battery terminal. There is no current flow needed through the sensor so if you removed it from the current path (no current no heat rise right?) and still notice a temp rise then you’d notice the issue.

The other thing to keep in mind is victron temp sensor (and most victron gear) is design carry over of FLA world where the battery/cells would dramatically heat up under charge discharge and that temp greatly factors into how you should be charging the battery.
Click to expand...
Wait so although it has a lug, the lug itself doesn’t need to attach to anything? That’s interesting. Don’t recall reading or hearing that.
EDIT: Confirmed this is untrue it must be for the temp sensor on the 500A shunt because that is how it powers the shunt!
 
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Q-Dog said:
I always thought my temp sensor on the battery terminal read a little hot. I put a Ruuvi tag on top of one of my batteries in the middle of the pack and feel the temps ther are more accurate. I only casually checked the accuracy with an instant read kitchen thermometer.
Click to expand...
When battery was inside plastic CHINS case, a Ruuvi sensor on top of plastic case wouldn’t likely tell you much. The heat we saw was only at the positive battery terminal. In fact I was told I could not put it on the negative lug at all. With cells outside battery box now on wood bench taped together o can do whatever experiments I want. I do want to point out, however, that with the upgraded battery management system JBD I installed, I can now do 100 amp discharge without it Overheating as fast. But according to the temp sensor, things are still heating up. Let’s put it into different numbers… And this is not scientific… It used to be that within 15 minutes or so 20 minutes maximum the positive battery post on top of the battery would reach 48°C. That is with no charging taking place… Discharge only. Now it reaches that temperature probably within an hour. But the cells are not inside the box nor using the same conductors that it was previously. The positive conductor from the cells goes straight to the T class fuse.
 
HRTKD said:
My battery warming system would like to disagree with you. I have two temperature sensors wired directly to the Cerbo GX. Where your statement may be correct is that the solar charge controllers and the Quattro are not using these two sensors. They are using the temperature sensor from the Lynx Shunt. There may be a way to tell the devices to use the Cerbo GX temperature sensors, but I haven't looked into that.
Click to expand...
Just to confirm, you are saying that the Servo GX supports attaching temperature sensors directly to it. Not through your links distributor?
 
740GLE said:
In all the testing you did on advice from us, I don’t think you ever mentioned the heat came from victron voltage and temp sensor.

One way you could try and prove this is create a jumper/stand off of a couple ring terminals and say 10awg. Have the voltage/temp sensor stood off the actual battery terminal. There is no current flow needed through the sensor so if you removed it from the current path (no current no heat rise right?) and still notice a temp rise then you’d notice the issue.

The other thing to keep in mind is victron temp sensor (and most victron gear) is design carry over of FLA world where the battery/cells would dramatically heat up under charge discharge and that temp greatly factors into how you should be charging the battery.
Click to expand...
This is a temperature sensor, the one with the thick lug. I have posted photos many times. It is not the super thin positive conductor required.

I am aware that it is a carryover from the flooded lead acid world. This is for sure a lithium ion JOSE battery. Eight cells total, 200 Ah, 12V. I’m starting to think maybe that the temperature sensor is not required? Just hope the one inside the BMS works to shut off power to the cells?
 
outboard1196 said:
See above
Click to expand...
The link you posted implies that there is a three terminal adapter that you can plug into the turbo GX. I definitely have those things. But I’m not looking to scratch build my own temperature sensor. Will the Victron one work if it’s plugged in there? That’s what I’m trying to figure out. I don’t see a recommendation to do that anywhere.
 
WorldwideDave said:
Wait so although it has a lug, the lug itself doesn’t need to attach to anything? That’s interesting. Don’t recall reading or hearing that.
Click to expand...
It’s a voltage and temp sensor.

I provides the power for the shunt and it is able to send temp values back to the shunt as well.

If you think the sensor is the actual element creating heat you can wire it to just a “jumper” of say two ring lugs and some conductor to stand it off. See if the heat flows the sensor or stays at the battery terminal.

My thought is that due to its mass (it’s chunky unit) it’s actually acting like a heat sink, and drawing heat away from that bad connector/connection but not the cause of the heat, but to you, it seems like the source of the heat.
 
HRTKD said:
Yes, I have temperature sensors hard wired to my Cerbo GX. It supports up to three.
Click to expand...
But remember there’s a shunt temp sensor and a multiplus sensor, two different beasts.

Shunt is a voltage and temp sensor, multiplus is just a temp sensor.

Shunt sensor must be on battery positive post to send power to the shunt.

The multiplus sensor needs no power and is commonly connected to the ground

I don’t think you can plug a shunt sensor into a cerbo, actually it might let the smoke out.
 
Q-Dog said:

Temperature Sensors [Victron Energy]

www.victronenergy.com www.victronenergy.com

The Cerbo GX does indeed have temp sensor inputs, and uses the same sensor as the MultiPlus and Quattro. I believe the Cerbo S does not have temperature sensor inputs.
Click to expand...
That's gold thank you - Will try connecting to that instead of the shunt and see if any different.

1738609762558.png

The key takeaway here is 2 fold:
The required sensor is ASS000001000 - Temperature sensor Quattro, MultiPlus and GX Device. Note that this is different from the BMV temperature accessory.

and

They are not required to be connected to the battery (though they appear like a battery lug).

Geez had no idea.

I do have a quattro, which is not connected yet. I have that cable. I will try to connect it to the cerbo GX now and get it to work. I will place it on top of the battery cells and report back.
EDIT: People with a Victron shunt with the optional shunt battery temp sensor should still continue to attach that to the battery positive post, as it powers the shunt. If you are like me, and have a cerbo gx, you can attach a different temp sensor to the cerbo, and revert your victron shunt back to the red-only power cable it came with if you want to remove the battery temp sensor and just use it as a shunt again.
 
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740GLE said:
But remember there’s a shunt temp sensor and a multiplus sensor, two different beasts.

Shunt is a voltage and temp sensor, multiplus is just a temp sensor.

Shunt sensor must be on battery positive post to send power to the shunt.

The multiplus sensor needs no power and is commonly connected to the ground

I don’t think you can plug a shunt sensor into a cerbo, actually it might let the smoke out.
Click to expand...
I posted a link to Victron temp sensors earlier. All the info is there.

Temperature Sensors [Victron Energy]

www.victronenergy.com www.victronenergy.com
 
WorldwideDave said:
I’m starting to think maybe that the temperature sensor is not required? Just hope the one inside the BMS works to shut off power to the cells?
Click to expand...
No one said a temp sensor is required. It’s more like a belt and suspenders approach.

With LiFePo low temp charging is the main concern, if the BMS has means to stop charging when cells are under 32f, or your cells will never see that temp, then don’t sweat it.

Your temp sensor did raise your attention to a hot positive terminal which I think was an issue with the case terminal/crimp.

These shunt voltage and temp sensors are multi voltage compatible. I wonder if at a lower voltage 12v it generates more heat compared to say 48v systems? Just a wild guess.
 
Alright so that's how you get the temp sensors to show up in the VRM Portal on the right side of the screen:

1738610986189.png

Notice that the one connected to my IP22 500A shunt is still appearing under the 'discharging' or battery section in VRM. Any way to get it to appear over there in the battery box next to or below the other one? I don't have it attached to anything - just sort of dangling inside the battery box for now - will wait until tonight to tape it to top of battery. Don't want to get shocked by that awesome 151 watts it's pulling in right now (sarcasm - many clouds and heavy fog today).
 
HRTKD said:
Yes, I have temperature sensors hard wired to my Cerbo GX. It supports up to three.
Click to expand...
Even though the very, very small icon (zoomed way in) shows 4, and the plug I just put in my Cerbo GX has 4 ports (8 holes, 4 connectors), you're saying it just supports up to 3 temp sensors, and not 4 it has printed?

1738611240051.png
 
robbob2112 said:
There other methods of printing than extrusion that result in a better smoother finish. Or you can print in abs and polish it with acetone, which leaves a glossy smooth finish... or spray a couple of layers of paint and it helps
Click to expand...
In summary, few Victron devices do not have ve.direct; Many devices have ve.direct; some devices have ve.direct and VE.Can; no devices have just VE.Can and no VE.Direct. Therefore, I am replacing my non-victron devices and non-ve.can victron devices with only ve.can devices going forward. This was helpful to review:

 
Brucey said:
I have my 450/100 connected via ve.can. Just have the other smaller stuff with ve.direct that the four port expander will come in handy for. Daisy chaining ve.can is definitely way to go if possible.
Click to expand...
Yes one has ve.can. Soon they all will. Spending spree in the near future.
 
WorldwideDave said:
Yes one has ve.can. Soon they all will. Spending spree in the near future.
Click to expand...
That's going to get costly if you also get the Lynx shunt. Which is apparently not as rock solid as a smartshunt 500. But I'm never one to discourage spending on some blue....
 
WorldwideDave said:
Even though the very, very small icon (zoomed way in) shows 4, and the plug I just put in my Cerbo GX has 4 ports (8 holes, 4 connectors), you're saying it just supports up to 3 temp sensors, and not 4 it has printed?

View attachment 275400
Click to expand...

You're right, it's four. I averaged out the number of temperature ports (4) with the number of relay ports (2) and came up with three. :eek:
 
outboard1196 said:
Not quite sure what your asking, you can add a temp sensor to the cerbo or use the battery sense module but it's only Bluetooth. I found using the temp sensor attached to the battery post isn't very accurate since the cables conduct heat away from the sensor/ battery. Had shunt sensor read below freezing when the air temp and BMS sensor where well above freezing.
Click to expand...
I've had to re-read this 4-5 times to understand what you are saying. In your situation, it was cold out, but not freezing. You had some alarm or rule set to do something likely when it hit 0 celsius or similar. The temp sensor you had wired on your shunt indicated it was very cold out - enough to trigger something. But the other temp sensors you had - one on the BMS, and another 'air sensor' that may have been a Ruuvi or something - both were reporting that No, it was not that cold outside. You then are suggesting that the temp sensor itself, which was attached to the battery post at the time, was reporting that it was too cold because the battery conductors were keeping warmth away from the victron temp sensor. Is my summary correct?

My situation I think is the exact opposite. While my temp sensor is attached to the battery because why wouldn't it be - I was told to do this early on - as current was flowing to and from the positive battery post, the victron temp sensor itself was almost like 'absorbing' the heat flowing through the conductor into the battery from the lug itself. Is my situation making sense?

Now I'm seeing some people suggest that that's not what they meant - don't attach the temp sensor to the battery post - just hover it over the battery or battery post somehow.
EDIT: For a 500A shunt with the temp sensor option, it is required to have this attached to the positive battery terminal because that is how the shunt receives power. So y'all crazy. :-)

Guess I've never seen a photo of a victron battery temp sensor just laying on or near or hovering over anything - only photos I've seen show it attached to the battery positive post, which others are suggesting is a carry over from the FLA days, and not applicable for LiFePO4 anymore - though I can't find evidence to support that it should no longer be attached, other than my experience, which I think more people should be aware of should they also do the same thing.
EDIT: See edit above - would kill the shunt because no power source!

Certainly my situation isn't uncommon - if someone is already using victron for their FLA or GEL battery setups, and they have the correct victron temp sensor attached to their shunt or cerbo, and the temp sensor surely looks like a lug meant to attach to something, and they have had it connected to their FLA for years and they now upgrade to LiFePO4 for house batteries in RV or boat, SURELY they'd just re-attach it to the battery post
.
Plus, there is the fact that it says so right in Victron's manual to install it on the positive battery post, and makes no mention of hovering it, not attaching it, different chemestries, or attaching it to the negative instead of the positive, or just laying it on top of the battery, or that it can work without being connected to the battery's positive post.
1738613982219.png

it was only in the cerbo GX manual - with that temp sensor which is different from this one - that it mentions that it doesn't have to be attached to the battery although it has a lug.
 
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