Want to build a utility room extension to house. Parents are adamant we don't get a permit or get the county involved. Thoughts?

[ddxv]

Grew up off grid. House is a converted two story three bed barn that is quite nice, but my parents claim much or the work was done after permits were issued in the late 80s. They added additional windows as well, the house had a lot of windows, some or which were not permitted.

So we want to extend the tiny utility room to make more room for solar equipment and take it out of the main living area (currently in the 'pantry' and make it a bit safer (much more spacing, more conduit, concrete board etc).

Parents are adamant we can't get the county involved to get a permit as they have these fears in order of importance:

1. They'll ding us for unrelated items like windows, a shed we built, decks and existing electrical. This could, they say, and I have also heard, end with the loss of our family home.
2. It will increase property taxes.
3. Maybe this should be first, the general complete distrust of 'the county'.

Now I pretty much agree，they are my parents and I share they're concerns. But I'd also like to look into this a bit and see how much we could do it by the books or what it would take to get things ok. But I certainly don't want to be responsible for 'repairs' to the house we can't afford.

Does anyone have experience with this? For reference we are in a rural area down a long dirt road and off grid. County is Mendocino, California and the house or property is K class.

 

[jjww]

a side story here in County of san luis obispo, My building inspector who lives 100+ feet from any of his neighbors/friends got popped by his OWN building/planning dept for an unpermitted deck!
all he can figure is they used satelite imaging

 

[wpns]

Well, it somewhat depends on how well (or poorly) constructed the unpermitted work was done over the years. If the work was to code and not permitted or inspected, I don't think you have an issue. If it looks like a 12-year-old built it, then it's dangerous, and you ought to think about the reasons for the code, and the permitting and inspection processes that go along with it.

"Ask not of the Internet, for it will tell you yes, and no, and maybe, and everything in between."

 

[Madcodger]

No way anyone who doesn't live there can give you anything more than idle conversation. Some AHJs are rabid in their strict enforcement, others just want their fees, and still others hardly care. And all of that can change over time. Best bet is to look at whether they've been actively enforcing code locally and go from there. But if you already don't trust them, that's not a great predictor of future interactions. Personally, when I hear "California" I start develop a nervous tic when it comes to govt intrusion. Not exactly a "Don't protect me from me" kind of place.

 

[BarracudaBob]

"If the cop didn't see it, it didn't happen"

It is only a matter of time before it becomes a problem. I understand why they don't want to do it. We had a very old inground pool with issues torn out and new one put in its place. This was considered a repair but the county treated it as a new pool and increase home value. Our taxes went up 12% for increased home value.

When we found out about it they told us it was to lake to do anything about it. There was a 90 day window to fix it. So from now on we are going to pay that additional tax forever.

The issues with not getting a permit will come up with insurance or taxes eventually.

How about a trailer or shed or something like that?

 

[BarracudaBob]

a side story here in County of san luis obispo, My building inspector who lives 100+ feet from any of his neighbors/friends got popped by his OWN building/planning dept for an unpermitted deck!
all he can figure is they used satelite imaging

I have seen contractors with drones fly over neighborhoods. There was a bunch of insurance companies dropping coverage of FL homes for having a cluttered back yard or solar panels on the roof.

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Likely a different take than others...come clean. The upgrades you describe are mostly 'over-the-counter' permits, of relatively low cost and reasonable code requirements. If any do NOT meet code compliance, simply make fixes to bring them into compliance, and ASK the inspector what it will take to do so (they will appreciate your willingness to follow instructions, and likely pass your first attempt of compliance). Recall that as a bureaucracy, they want their fees, sure..but the mission is health and safety, they're not particularly concerned if the windows were properly caulked. Mendo appears to be a relatively (by Cali standards) lenient county, with penalties more or less equal to the fees of the original permits for residential (2-3X for commercial projects), but it can be said that any new add-on room will need a bit more work than simple OTC permit, may require design/materials submittals to staff engineers, and depending on total square footage and whether climate controlled, etc, may indeed impact your tax assessor's revaluation. I would recommend a separate detached structure, under 120 sq ft, like a shed, which shouldn't require a permit nor tax reassessment whatsoever.

Municode Library

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[Quattrohead]

I have seen contractors with drones fly over neighborhoods. There was a bunch of insurance companies dropping coverage of FL homes for having a cluttered back yard or solar panels on the roof.

To be totally clear, they were told to clean up the mess otherwise they might get dropped.

 

[xy74]

Sure am glad both my properties are in townships where I am the authority who decides.

 

[fuzzmunky415]

To be totally clear, they were told to clean up the mess otherwise they might get dropped.

A friend of mine had Chubb threaten to non-renew unless the neighbor's overhanging trees weren't pruned to clear the property line. So satellites are in use. $11,000 later, property lines cleared, and Chubb renewed.

 

[Zork Arg]

A friend of mine had Chubb threaten to non-renew unless the neighbor's overhanging trees weren't pruned to clear the property line. So satellites are in use. $11,000 later, property lines cleared, and Chubb renewed.

Chubb?? The County?

 

[registered-bum]

Key drivers for this decision is the likelihood that county inspectors give a crap - or enough so to come mess with you.

Knowing a little about rural counties communities in NorCal, it's my opinion that with the number of squatters and legal/illegal MJ grows, they have enough crap on their plate to come mess with a home owner who is otherwise paying their property taxes and not making an ecological mess of the hillside or polluting the watershed.

If you keep it clean and tidy, paint the addition the same color as the house/utility room, and it' mostly built to code - you will have little to worry about -at least until either it comes time to sell - or you have major insurance claim (say after a fire or something).

It also seems that insurance-cos are likely to bail on any zone with significant stand of timber, as in leave the market entirely. They want to keep on the premiums - not pay out claims. And for those of us who believe in global warming, this insurance issue is going to get worser ...

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Key drivers for this decision is the likelihood that county inspectors give a crap - or enough so to come mess with you.

Knowing a little about rural counties communities in NorCal, it's my opinion that with the number of squatters and legal/illegal MJ grows, they have enough crap on their plate to come mess with a home owner who is otherwise paying their property taxes and not making an ecological mess of the hillside or polluting the watershed.

If you keep it clean and tidy, paint the addition the same color as the house/utility room, and it' mostly built to code - you will have little to worry about -at least until either it comes time to sell - or you have major insurance claim (say after a fire or something).

It also seems that insurance-cos are likely to bail on any zone with significant stand of timber, as in leave the market entirely. They want to keep on the premiums - not pay out claims. And for those of us who believe in global warming, this insurance issue is going to get worser ...

Mendo is historically well-known as a haven for homesteading and off-grid living, and laws as well as attitudes are fairly lax. Especially so with the ongoing homelessness occuring in California, they would rather ignore compliance than push you out or strip you of property, in Mendo. Still, they must implement state and federal standards for construction through code compliance, and in California particular, it is short-sighted and unacceptable risk to ignore basic permit and inspections owing to the ongoing crises in the state. Don't be the errant 120V power line that starts the next fire, etc.

Best Places For Off Grid Living And Homesteading In California ( Top 5 ) » Off Grid Grandpa

California has to be one of the most beautiful states in the entire country, with plenty of sunshine all year round and a lot of options when it comes to growing crops. Although there are not a lot of people ... Read more

offgridgrandpa.com

Private power lines, not PG&E’s, caused deadly wine country fire, state says

The 2017 fire that destroyed thousands of homes in Santa Rosa, Calif., and killed 22 people was caused by private power lines, not ones owned by utility giant Pacific Gas & Electric Co., a long-awaited state investigation released Thursday concluded.

www.latimes.com

Tubbs Fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Chubb?? The County?

Chubb, insurer for high net worth customers.

 

[wpns]

Mendo is historically well-known as a haven for homesteading and off-grid living, and laws as well as attitudes are fairly lax. Especially so with the ongoing homelessness occuring in California, they would rather ignore compliance than push you out or strip you of property, in Mendo. Still, they must implement state and federal standards for construction through code compliance, and in California particular, it is short-sighted and unacceptable risk to ignore basic permit and inspections owing to the ongoing crises in the state. Don't be the errant 120V power line that starts the next fire, etc.

Best Places For Off Grid Living And Homesteading In California ( Top 5 ) » Off Grid Grandpa

California has to be one of the most beautiful states in the entire country, with plenty of sunshine all year round and a lot of options when it comes to growing crops. Although there are not a lot of people ... Read more

offgridgrandpa.com

Private power lines, not PG&E’s, caused deadly wine country fire, state says

The 2017 fire that destroyed thousands of homes in Santa Rosa, Calif., and killed 22 people was caused by private power lines, not ones owned by utility giant Pacific Gas & Electric Co., a long-awaited state investigation released Thursday concluded.

www.latimes.com

Tubbs Fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh, that’s not scary or anything:
/*
was caused by “a private electrical system adjacent to a residential structure.” The fire agency also said it found no violations of state law related to the blaze. Whoever owns the lines faces billions of dollars in claims from people who lost their homes.
*/

 

[Zork Arg]

Chubb, insurer for high net worth customers.

AHA! THAT's why I had never heard of it...

 

[hardtop]

You have no idea what you are doing.

 

[wpns]

Again, it depends wha you are going to do:

 

[robbob2112]

Again, it depends wha you are going to do:
View attachment 269692

That looks like a fantastic non-powered greenhouse

 

[fuzzmunky415]

That looks like a fantastic non-powered greenhouse

A real head-scratcher. Extreme re-use/recycle, but those top bricks in that 'stove'..once they heat up, what then? That 2X, is it supposed to be manual or gravity-fed? This pic is a giant puzzle. I'll have what he's having....

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Followup on a nearby county, Humboldt, which shares similar ethos as Mendo. Not what I would describe as a heavy hand approach by TPTB. Yee Haw is a long saga...but the take-away is the county works WITH owner towards compliance, and owner willingness speeds things along. IMO, the real estate situation in California is somewhat unique, and one is short- sightedly foregoing future wealth by code dodging...those improvements aren't included in the appreciation values.

https://www.sfgate.com/northcoast/article/humboldt-throws-commune-lifeline-despite-history-20027732.php

 

[grebaba]

Seems to me it is their property and they make the decision's.
You can get all the permits you want when you inherit the property.
Greg

 

[robbob2112]

my 2 cents

Adding any structure or room to a building that exists without a permit is a sure way to get a fine and bad things to happen because these days they will overfly with a drone and note any new structures which are checked against the building permits.... all automatic if the county is fully computerized... and they just pay some other company for part or all of it.

Anything new that is attached is flagged as non-conforming and even if they are nice about it I would expect a letter to ask about it.

Adding a separate building that is below the size that requires a permit may be a good idea - they have this rule to allow you to build a shed or buy a pre-built.... but even on these if there is power in the building they want an electrical permit...

If you are the one that will inherit the property in the end it might be tough but seems like just telling the parents you can't do anything without the permit is really the way to go. The rules are only going to get tighter over time and anything that is non-conforming in the future will not only have to have a permit to bring it to current with the county but will also have to be brought up to that new current code.

It wouldn't shock me if the county has anything that was added to the house without permit be gutted to the studs so they can inspect everything..

summary - it will be painful now to get everything current, but it will be a nightmare later to do the same...

 

[fuzzmunky415]

my 2 cents

Adding any structure or room to a building that exists without a permit is a sure way to get a fine and bad things to happen because these days they will overfly with a drone and note any new structures which are checked against the building permits.... all automatic if the county is fully computerized... and they just pay some other company for part or all of it.

Anything new that is attached is flagged as non-conforming and even if they are nice about it I would expect a letter to ask about it.

Adding a separate building that is below the size that requires a permit may be a good idea - they have this rule to allow you to build a shed or buy a pre-built.... but even on these if there is power in the building they want an electrical permit...

If you are the one that will inherit the property in the end it might be tough but seems like just telling the parents you can't do anything without the permit is really the way to go. The rules are only going to get tighter over time and anything that is non-conforming in the future will not only have to have a permit to bring it to current with the county but will also have to be brought up to that new current code.

It wouldn't shock me if the county has anything that was added to the house without permit be gutted to the studs so they can inspect everything..

summary - it will be painful now to get everything current, but it will be a nightmare later to do the same...

Perfect synopsis. I'd just add in 'pennywise, pound foolish'.
Indeed, I would leverage a local institution, perhaps can get a lead on an experienced electrician to help suggest DIY fixes to meet compliance before setting about permits.

Real Goods - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zork Arg]

A real head-scratcher. Extreme re-use/recycle, but those top bricks in that 'stove'..once they heat up, what then? That 2X, is it supposed to be manual or gravity-fed? This pic is a giant puzzle. I'll have what he's having....

Solar Pizza Oven??