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We will be tested very soon..!!!

I know that I will be proven correct when Christ returns to receive his children and take them to a better place.

In that case, I won't have to discuss this any further since your mind is made up, and no evidence or argument will change your views.

God is waiting to reveal Himself to you, if you just invite Him to do so.

If god is real he will have to offer me and many other people in this world, past, present and future, an apology for what he has done.
 
In that case, I won't have to discuss this any further since your mind is made up, and no evidence or argument will change your views.
I am always learning more, but I certainly have a solid foundation.
If god is real he will have to offer me and many other people in this world, past, present and future, an apology for what he has done.
God is real. But He is not the one responsible for your pain. The one responsible, God's enemy, will never apologize to you--he is much too proud to lose face in such a manner. His pride was the original cause of his downfall, and it is one of his most accomplished means of causing our downfall, too...to inspire us with false confidence and pride. Pride feels no need of help, and will not ask for any. If we don't need God, and do not request His help, He remains a true Gentleman who will not interfere against our will. Freedom of choice is His most sacred gift to us, and even God will not work against this to force us to accept Him. Force is not a principle of God's government. All who coerce and force others are inspired by God's enemies.
 
To keep it much shorter and simpler than most posts in this thread, I see the largest current issue facing science as:

Consensus and politics trumps science for the last 10+ years. For example, if you write a non-alarmist or even anti-alarmist climate stance research paper, it will not pass peer review for any journal that focuses on such topics. There are more and more journals so that each can be its own echo chamber. Same goes for gender studies papers. You could write a purposely trash paper that pretends to "toe the line" and be published, but a real effort that does not match a current consensus will not.

It's increasingly hard to make scientific progress if anything outside of the accepted narrative is off limits. We are migrating back to the days of Galileo where literal trials are happening for challenging consensus in some countries like the U.K. Regardless of your political stance on issues such as these, it is easy to see how the efforts to squash dissenting opinion is a very real form of gatekeeping and is a barrier to progress.

This is not being anti-science, it is being pro real science that allows for experimentation and views outside of political narratives. I want real science to make a comeback.
 
No, that hot girl really wants to hook up with me. Amazing, that with a few billion men across the world she chose me!

"Experts" say, . . . The problem is human nature. People want to be right, admired, powerful, ... The overly ambitious among us, have a tendency to propagandize. We are all biased, but generally over time the correct conclusions bubble up to the top. For some reason, it seems like more and more people are being indoctrinated to accept the conclusions made by the powers that be, the "experts", who may or may not even have an agenda beyond a desire to be heard and admired. This is not the foundation that made our country strong, and thru the course of history, this tends to have catastrophic consequences.

We've managed as a society/world to do some magnificent things, but we really need to be skeptical of "experts". It's too easy to plant a seed of truth to make straw man arguments that will not hold up under further scrutiny. We are constantly bombarded with stories of research where the data was faked, or hand-picked, or adjusted to fit the desired conclusion. Then because it fit a narrative, that same flawed research becomes a "consensus" that we should trust because the "experts" said so. If you question the results and conclusions you are a science denier, ridiculed and censored.

Things are starting to get a little out of hand on this front, but the best way to combat it is more FREE SPEECH not censoring speech. There used to be a joke that bubbled up from the old newsgroup days, that if you wanted to find out if something was true or not, post it on a newsgroup. If you are wrong, a million people will let you know with details and examples of why and how you are wrong. This kind of discourse is critical if we are ever to move forward and get the correct conclusions.
Well there is a danger now with social media that people equate popularity with talent, cleverness or knowledge
A combination that can make a stupid argument seem reasonable

You know who is very clever?
These young electchickens I work with.
My own personal bias because I am older I know more
But those clever little sobs
Figured out how to run their own private network through the automation network and I’m thousands of feet underground typing on my cell phone

It’s real easy to fall into the trap that you think your the smartest person in the room
How could I be wrong?
New firewalls are impenetrable….

And l am constantly reminded just how much I do not know…lucky for me I am so rounded by people who constantly show me there are more ways to do things and differences of opinion I need to listen too
When I am too old to learn and listen it will be time to sit back and keep my mouth shut….
We don’t need more people talking and being wrong lol
 
God is real. But He is not the one responsible for your pain. The one responsible, God's enemy, will never apologize to you--he is much too proud to lose face in such a manner. His pride was the original cause of his downfall, and it is one of his most accomplished means of causing our downfall, too...to inspire us with false confidence and pride. Pride feels no need of help, and will not ask for any. If we don't need God, and do not request His help, He remains a true Gentleman who will not interfere against our will. Freedom of choice is His most sacred gift to us, and even God will not work against this to force us to accept Him. Force is not a principle of God's government. All who coerce and force others are inspired by God's enemies.

So, who created those flesh eating bacteria, cancers, and other crap that is killing children in gruesome ways? Who came up with the idea of creating parasitic worms that eat eyes? Or who decided that leprosy, rabies, smallpox and brain-eating amoeba were a good thing to make?

Don't go, oh, the bad guy did it. Either god is omnipotent and wouldn't let that happen, or he isn't and he can get lost. If 'god' has an 'enemy', he clearly isn't omnipotent by the definition of the word. And don't say: 'it is part of his plan', because that plan sucks so bad in that case that my first year students can do better.
 
Incorrect. I do not believe in things. I use the preponderance of evidence to accept something up until further evidence cause me to stop accepting it. Evolution is a messy thing and is only acceptable as more likely than a human story about supernatural beings. There is real evidence for evolution that is not reliant on faith. There is no physical evidence that deities exist outside the imagination.
I exist.

My pronouns are Thee/Thy/Thou. And I identify as God.
 
The conclusions only come after making a faith choice. Like it or not, everyone must do so. Naturalistic evolution requires faith to believe it, just as creation does.


No, scientific conclusions come when experimentation shows or does not show repeatable results for the hypothesis.

Hypothesis:
Heavier object fall faster than lighter ones -- Of course they do this is my hypothesis, everybody knows the heavier something is the faster it will hit the ground if you drop it from on high!

Experiment:
We will drop objects of varying weight off a platform and compare the time it takes them to reach the ground.

Analysis:
After repeatedly dropping a 16 lb Bowling ball and a 2 oz marble they fell at the same rate. Oops!

Conclusion:
The weight of an object is not a determining factor in how fast an object falls

This conclusion was not drawn on faith. It was drawn based on the results of the experiment. By actually dropping the objects to test our hypothesis. You don't need faith you need to prove it with experimentation. If you can't then all you have is a theory, and like Niels Bohr's atom model it can be 'Accepted science', but that does not make it true or false until repeatable experimentation either supports or disproves the hypothesis.

Niels Bohr's problem was that some experiments supported his hypothesis, until others showed that wasn't actually the case.
 
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On the changing climate a friend of mine was visiting his 90 odd year old father in Austria he was saying they have started to have problems with locusts and nobody could remember any issues in the past.
 
The weather changes all the time. Climate is an average of the weather over a time period. Based on very early historical drawings and physical evidence, the region around egypt was a vast fertile area with lots of water. This changed over time because of climate change. They should have all been forced to buy EV's and solar, it would have stopped it.

It really stuns me sometimes the arrogance. I'm not the brightest bulb on the block, but it seems to me that if some glacier thaws out and reveals some poor slob in a cave, or a woolly mammoth frozen in a ditch... There are only a few possibilities I can think of. 1) Ancient astronauts used the transporter and beamed the carcasses there to confuse us in the 20th and 21st century. Or more lilkely 2) At some point in the distant past that particular area of the planet was not nearly as cold, and not covered with ice. I can't really prove either one, but in this case I do have 'faith' it's the latter.
 
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It really stuns me sometimes the arrogance. I'm not the brightest bulb on the block, but it seems to me that if some glacier thaws out and reveals some poor slob in a cave, or a woolly mammoth frozen in a ditch... There are only a few possibilities I can think of. 1) Ancient astronauts used the transporter and beamed the carcasses there to confuse us in the 20th and 21st century. Or more lilkely 2) At some point in the distant past that particular area of the planet was not nearly as cold, and not covered with ice. I can't really prove either one, but in this case I do have 'faith' it's the latter.
It's definitely #1 :)

The answer could be as simple as money. Often is. For example, how do we make money off of a hard to define problem of global proportions if it isn't actually a huge problem... In order to keep the money flowing, it is important to be flexible and shift the narrative as needed. If any of the effects that were mentioned 40 years ago did not yet happen, they are about to right? Or if global warming is not fitting the pattern, perhaps we could re-brand as global climate change. We could even pretend like it has always been called that. I have a lot of ideas to keep the money flowing! Don't worry about that friends.

For my part, I don't buy into the climate hysteria, but I do like the resiliency of solar, and I am not throwing tires into the river for fun. It's not a being a fence sitter, or taking a middle ground. Not at all. It is rejecting the hysteria and madness of both extremes. There is a difference.
 
Or if global warming is not fitting the pattern, perhaps we could re-brand as global climate change. We could even pretend like it has always been called that.

No one serious pretends that it has always been like that. The term became gradually preferred because it is more accurate. This happens all the time across all sciences. The warming part didn't go away.
 
For the average person, there is no way to understand or discuss the climate issues - it is far too complicated with some factors adding and some subtracting, some affecting certain areas more than others.
What is simple to understand for anyone is: humans have dug up, drilled, extracted millions of tons of hydro-carbons that were not part of the atmopheric carbon cycles for hundreds of millions of years, but during a period of only 200 years - we released all this sequestered material back into the active atmospheric carbon cycle, changing the CO2 levels from 280ppm to 420ppm in the blink of an eye. This is a fact , is undisputed and is undeniable.
To pretend changes to the chemisty of the atmosphere should have "no impact at all' is naive.
It is quite complicated indeed, and I don't think most scientists are even able to grasp the extent of it. Scientists typically consider one area, theirs, and try to fit their conclusions to the whole planet based on that one field of study.

So, who created those flesh eating bacteria, cancers, and other crap that is killing children in gruesome ways? Who came up with the idea of creating parasitic worms that eat eyes? Or who decided that leprosy, rabies, smallpox and brain-eating amoeba were a good thing to make?
God has said, "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:9). That flesh-eating bacteria, etc. is not part of God's design, and won't be part of His kingdom.

Don't go, oh, the bad guy did it. Either god is omnipotent and wouldn't let that happen, or he isn't and he can get lost. If 'god' has an 'enemy', he clearly isn't omnipotent by the definition of the word. And don't say: 'it is part of his plan', because that plan sucks so bad in that case that my first year students can do better.
Well, it was indeed God's enemy that was responsible for these life-destroying plagues. But there is a reason God has allowed it, and that reason boils down to preservation of God's most sacred gift: freedom of choice. You see, if God had immediately destroyed Lucifer/Satan when he first rebelled in Heaven, yes, the rebellion would have been squashed, but all of the remaining angels would no longer have served God voluntarily, of their own free will. Their free will would have changed to being forced by fear. Fear would have replaced love to God.

If a man puts a gun to a woman's head and says, "Marry me!"--to save her life, she will likely say, "Yes." But will she do so out of love, of her own free will? No, her will is not free. It is bound by fear. She is coerced, forced to do what she would not otherwise choose.

It is this service out of fear, instead of love and free will, that is odious to God. God truly loves us. He does not want for anyone in His universe to serve Him from abject fear. He could have also created beings that simply had no choice at all--no fear, no free will, just automatons, doing what they were programmed to do. But how much pleasure does one get from the "I love you" repeated by the little doll when a button is pressed, versus hearing it said by one who had a choice in the matter? God has no pleasure in the empty "love" of a robot. This is why He created us with free will.

Because God's enemy has said that God's laws are not fair, God Himself is essentially on trial throughout this sin experiment. Unfortunately, we are center stage in the experiment, and it takes time for the truth to be revealed. When all are thoroughly convinced, and sick to death of the evil perpetrated by God's enemy; when no doubt remains in the mind of anyone as to God's fairness in destroying Satan...then God will step in and put an end to all of this pain and misery. Only then will it be safe for God to destroy His enemies without causing His other subjects to live in fear of Him.

No, scientific conclusions come when experimentation shows or does not show repeatable results for the hypothesis.
Did you know that many or perhaps even most scientific "conclusions" are little more than propaganda, and that their experimental results are not repeatable? Check out the article entitled "Scientific Regress" to see just how far we have come.

Here's the first paragraph, to whet the appetite:

The problem with science is that so much of it simply isn’t. Last summer, the Open Science Collaboration announced that it had tried to replicate one hundred published psychology experiments sampled from three of the most prestigious journals in the field. Scientific claims rest on the idea that experiments repeated under nearly identical conditions ought to yield approximately the same results, but until very recently, very few had bothered to check in a systematic way whether this was actually the case. The OSC was the biggest attempt yet to check a field’s results, and the most shocking. In many cases, they had used original experimental materials, and sometimes even performed the experiments under the guidance of the original researchers. Of the studies that had originally reported positive results, an astonishing 65 percent failed to show statistical significance on replication, and many of the remainder showed greatly reduced effect sizes.
 
But there is a reason God has allowed it, and that reason boils down to preservation of God's most sacred gift: freedom of choice.

This reasoning makes my blood boil. Go tell that with a straight face to all those children that are suffering and dying. What free choice do they have exactly? What are the parents put though?

This thinking is one of the few things that will absolutely make me raging with anger.

I'm done with this thread.
 
This reasoning makes my blood boil. Go tell that with a straight face to all those children that are suffering and dying. What free choice do they have exactly? What are the parents put though?

This thinking is one of the few things that will absolutely make me raging with anger.

I'm done with this thread.
It appears you stopped reading after that sentence. The explanation which followed was important. Nevertheless, you have freedom of choice, and it is your privilege to accept or reject as you wish.

Many die in war to preserve the freedoms of others. Even children die in wars. Yet our human wars are only a microcosm of the greater war going on all around us. There is no fairness in war; but when the war is over, peace comes, and happiness.
 
It's definitely #1 :)

The answer could be as simple as money. Often is. For example, how do we make money off of a hard to define problem of global proportions if it isn't actually a huge problem... In order to keep the money flowing, it is important to be flexible and shift the narrative as needed. If any of the effects that were mentioned 40 years ago did not yet happen, they are about to right? Or if global warming is not fitting the pattern, perhaps we could re-brand as global climate change. We could even pretend like it has always been called that. I have a lot of ideas to keep the money flowing! Don't worry about that friends.

For my part, I don't buy into the climate hysteria, but I do like the resiliency of solar, and I am not throwing tires into the river for fun. It's not a being a fence sitter, or taking a middle ground. Not at all. It is rejecting the hysteria and madness of both extremes. There is a difference.
I've said it before and it bears repeating often. The young people of today, have no idea what it was like in the Ozzie & Harriet era. Around that time industrial pollution was out of control in many places, first we stopped it, then we cleaned up the majority of it (Google 'superfund sites'). We are by no means perfect but you have to balance economics and reality with environmental concerns.

All those organizations getting these problems in the light needed somewhere to go thus many globbed onto the weather telling us we were going to freeze to death if we didn't do something right away. Turns out they guessed wrong so we shifted into global warming, then while I'm still reeling we decide its because of 'Greenhouse gasses' and nobody will be able to breathe. Man made CO2 production is causing the Arctic to melt (Should have already), sea levels will rise 10 feet in the next few years, and our coastlines will be unrecognizable.

Sure thing, I trust the "science" wholeheartedly. Most importantly, if anyone disagrees with this analysis of the data, you must SHUT THEM DOWN immediately. We will create a "disinformation" bureau, and wreck anyone who might present an opposing viewpoint financially and sully their reputation as much as possible so they will be scorned. Finally drum up whirlwinds of panic so that people will run around in fear, and fund the cause further.

Straight out of Orwell's novels. I might note crippling people with opposing viewpoints financially, and reputationally so they cannot oppose you is the definition of 'fascism'. So if these undesirables won't pipe down we will need to accuse them of what we are already doing.

See Also: Covid, or whatever the crisis-de-jour is.
 
Most people are all about cleaning up actual pollution, but not about funding never-ending undefined problems. There are also real consequences to tilting at windmills. Serious misallocation of resources result.

You end up with homeless people everywhere, inflation, unaffordable housing and other largely avoidable problems because the focus is taken off of real world, very definite problems and placed onto more profitable "problems". Follow the $ incentives. Things that are seemingly unrelated are linked because value, time, and focus are defined resources. Waste in one category leads to pain in another.

There is a hyper focus on ideas and ideals instead of reality.
 
My apologies. Hope you didn't have to sigh too hard. Hopefully this was the first time that has ever happened. A mixup of the two countries in conversation!:)

Several varieties of locusts and grasshoppers do indeed exist in Austria as well. They did not recently appear.
 
It is quite complicated Simple indeed,

What is simple to understand for anyone is: humans have dug up, drilled, extracted millions Giga - tons of hydro-carbons that were not part of the atmopheric carbon cycles for hundreds of millions of years, but during a period of only 200 years - we released all this sequestered material back into the active atmospheric carbon cycle, changing the CO2 levels from 280ppm to 420ppm in the blink of an eye. This is a fact , is undisputed and is undeniable.
To pretend changes to the chemisty of the atmosphere should have "no impact at all' is naive.
 
To illustrate some of the complexity I see with the warming issue, here is a list that I, as just one person, can come up with, and I am certain to have but a fraction of what could be listed.

Potential signs of global warming:
  • Increased and/or stronger winds
  • Increased evaporation/sublimation of water
  • Increased atmospheric humidity and dewpoint
  • Increased precipitation of all forms (snow included)
  • Decreased glaciation as ice melts faster
  • Increased ocean salinity in tropical regions
  • Decreased ocean salinity in polar regions
  • Increased sea level, more so in tropical regions
  • Increased reports of record-setting temperatures at both extremes (hot/cold), in varying locations
  • Increased intensity and frequency of cyclonic storm activities
  • Increased strength of jet stream and ocean currents
  • Changes in flora and fauna populations favoring those adapted to higher temperatures and/or climate instability
  • Decreased CO2 levels, due to increased flora
  • Increased atmospheric oxygen levels, due to increased flora
  • Decreased oxygenation of water bodies

These do not all occur at once or in the same place, but would represent world-wide averages. They may not be consistent. As the pendulum is pushed to swing harder, extremes in both directions may be reasonably expected. Furthermore, the earth is designed to balance itself, so pushing in one direction will cause a reaction that pulls it back toward where it had been. For example, as CO2 levels increase, plant growth is favored. As plants increase, CO2 levels drop. This sort of check-and-balance is at play in virtually all of earth's major systems related to the changes in climate. This is why the issue is so complex, and scientists studying the changes are very much subject to the blind-men-and-the-elephant phenomenon, whereby each one sees a part of the picture and might easily jump to erroneous conclusions regarding the whole. No human can properly grasp the whole picture alone. Even a team of scientists will not comprehend it fully.
 
Furthermore, the earth is designed to balance itself,
no evidence of any design provided.
so pushing in one direction will cause a reaction that pulls it back toward where it had been. For example, as CO2 levels increase, plant growth is favored. As plants increase, CO2 levels drop. This sort of check-and-balance is at play in virtually all of earth's major systems related to the changes in climate

The release of 139 ppm new CO2 has not to date been met with any balancing mechanism to reduce the current 413ppm back to 1850's levels of 280ppm. Clearly not all prcesses 'natrually balance' - at least not on the time scale of hundreds of years.
There are some factors that appear to be opposite effect - ie self reinforcing - as permafrost in high lat areas warms and thaws for the first time in ten's of thousands of years, organic matter that has been long frozen is exposed to air and decomposes - releasing CO2 & methane likely accelerating the effect.
 
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The release of 139 ppm new CO2 has not to date been met with any balancing mechanism to reduce the current 413ppm back to 1850's levels of 280ppm. Clearly not all prcesses 'natrually balance' - at least not on the time scale of hundreds of years.
There are some factors that appear to be opposite effect - ie self reinforcing - as permafrost in high lat areas warms and thaws for the first time in ten's of thousands of years, organic matter that has been long frozen is exposed to air and decomposes - releasing CO2 & methane likely accelerating the effect.
I agree with you that the CO2 levels have been increasing.

I didn't address human inputs to the system. I was looking only at natural phenomena. Naturally, the CO2 levels can continue rising, despite the proliferation of plants, if the burning of fossil fuels, slash and burn farming, etc. are occurring. These unnatural inputs to the system may not be countered to the same degree, depending on their levels.

That said, I'm not so clear on the science supporting a CO2 greenhouse connection at an atmospheric temperature level. I understand how it will increase plant life, which may be what some consider a "greenhouse" effect. In other words, I don't fully agree that CO2 by itself increases temperature--I see the levels of CO2 as being affected by temperature (because of flora), not so much the other way around.
 

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