diy solar

diy solar

Well I almost burnt the house down. Time to ask for some help....

First things first. Likely you only damaged the one cell, which puffed up. More than likely it got too much charge or took too much for some reason, it could be internal failure (not that likely) or something else wrong like bad connections. Test each cell independently and write down teh voltages and resistance, mark that on a sticky note (or tape it to cell). A BMS should have disconnected though when one cell went out of spec, this is one of the key functions of the BMS to control each cell within a pack.

Terms:
Pack = a set of cells assembled to make a Battery Pack complete with it's own BMS.
Bank = a set of 2 or more Packs configured to collectively deliver more Amp Hours and Voltage depending on configuration.

You will need to split up the packs and set the cells up in Parallel. That means (+ to +) and (- to -) so they share out the voltage and balance themselves down. They will likely have to sit a couple of days till they all read the same voltage. It may be good to do that with the 16 cells in the good pack and the 15 cells in the pack that had the wonky cell. You will have to order another identical cell to replace the puffed up one of course.
‼ Forget the puffed up cell, consider it dead and dangerous, do not use it.
Once you have all the cells back to "normalised" voltages, then you'll have to do at least a Top Balance to ensure they are uniform.

BMS (Battery Management System)
A BMS is a key component that manages the cells and what happens to / with them. A basic BMS will protect from over/under charge and Over-temp conditions. Some more advanced BMS can do balancing between the cells and even more advanced ones can do more with interactivity. A BMS can cost anywhere from $75 (basic & simple) to thousands (insane gear for EV's + bigger stuff) but for < $200 USD you can get a wide variety of choices & options for BMS'.

You mention having a Victron Smartsolar 250/100 for 48v SCC (Great Stuff BTW) but not what Inverter/Charger you have. Victron is a Tier-1 product and they support LFP quite well. Their equipment can be made to interact with LFP battery packs so they can do their job most efficiently. IF you are in the "Victron Family" then I very highly recommend using two 16-S BMS' (one per pack) which can interact with Victron Systems so you can get the most from your investment. I cannot specify a particular BMS that will interact with Victron, there are several and there are threads in here discussing such in great detail. Even threads on using the Victron Software to manage it all nicely.

Once you know the status of all your cells, you will know which ones are toast, hopefully just the one which took the brunt, then you can order replacements as needed. I very highly doubt the vendor would take any responsibility, it's not their fault. If it is only one or two cells, count yourself very lucky indeed.

BTW: Personal Opinion: Some may say going without a BMS is OK... I say it's IDIOCY ! Yes you can live in a house with no fire / smoke detector or one with, which is safer @ 3am if the house catches fire ? We put thousands of dollars into battery systems and to not put failsafe protection on them is really dimwitted and risky. We install fuses & breakers for good reason and the BMS is the Last Stop should something go awry.
 
This thread brings up another question: What do we (responsibly) do to properly dispose of a substantially overcharged puffed up lifepo4 cell. All batteries need to be disposed of properly, but is there additional risk in its overcharged state? Should the charge be slowly bled off somehow?

I don't believe I've ever seen a discussion of end-of-life disposal before
 
Regardless of chemistry I always take a battery down to flat if I'm getting rid of it (for me that means taking it to the recycler, others this may mean throwing it in the bin). It wouldn't be the first time here that someone has dropped a crook but still charged car battery in the bin and caused a fire in a rubbish truck when the battery was put through the compactor.
 
If they are in that range that's not bad at all. No cell deformities in the rest of the cells? If not break them down in parallel and top balance them.
You do know how from Wills video? Order a replacement cell, bms.
Has not will said 24 volt max with lithium batteries??
 
Who did you buy from? Can you post a link?

I have a couple questions:
You referred to your 'battery' a few times, in my experience people who purchase raw cells more often refer to cells, packs, banks in this context. This (combined with your comment that the cells were 'certified fully balanced') makes me wonder if they were sold to you as a packaged battery? If so maybe you have more recourse, at least its worth a try.

What exactly do you mean 'certified fully balanced'

This is the store:
Lifepo4 BATT Store

They told me I should have had a BMS and they aren't responsible because all cells are shipped
What voltage is the bulged cell reading?

It is reading 3.358v right now. It did sit overnight from yesterday if that makes a difference.
 
What voltage is the bulged cell reading?
From your description of the design, and the charger settings, that cell must have been near full, and others were much lower.
what voltage were all the cells at when they arrived?

Unfortunately I can't remember exactly, but they were all around 3.3v i just remember thinking they were all very close.
Who did you buy from? Can you post a link?

I have a couple questions:
You referred to your 'battery' a few times, in my experience people who purchase raw cells more often refer to cells, packs, banks in this context. This (combined with your comment that the cells were 'certified fully balanced') makes me wonder if they were sold to you as a packaged battery? If so maybe you have more recourse, at least its worth a try.

What exactly do you mean 'certified fully balanced'

I bought the cells from:

Lifepo4 BATT Store https://a.aliexpress.com/_dYQv6zO
The were cells, sold as a group, but not as a single battery - i used the wrong terminology. They say they balance all cells before shipping (a process that takes a few extra days).
 
First things first. Likely you only damaged the one cell, which puffed up. More than likely it got too much charge or took too much for some reason, it could be internal failure (not that likely) or something else wrong like bad connections. Test each cell independently and write down teh voltages and resistance, mark that on a sticky note (or tape it to cell). A BMS should have disconnected though when one cell went out of spec, this is one of the key functions of the BMS to control each cell within a pack.

Terms:
Pack = a set of cells assembled to make a Battery Pack complete with it's own BMS.
Bank = a set of 2 or more Packs configured to collectively deliver more Amp Hours and Voltage depending on configuration.

You will need to split up the packs and set the cells up in Parallel. That means (+ to +) and (- to -) so they share out the voltage and balance themselves down. They will likely have to sit a couple of days till they all read the same voltage. It may be good to do that with the 16 cells in the good pack and the 15 cells in the pack that had the wonky cell. You will have to order another identical cell to replace the puffed up one of course.
‼ Forget the puffed up cell, consider it dead and dangerous, do not use it.
Once you have all the cells back to "normalised" voltages, then you'll have to do at least a Top Balance to ensure they are uniform.

BMS (Battery Management System)
A BMS is a key component that manages the cells and what happens to / with them. A basic BMS will protect from over/under charge and Over-temp conditions. Some more advanced BMS can do balancing between the cells and even more advanced ones can do more with interactivity. A BMS can cost anywhere from $75 (basic & simple) to thousands (insane gear for EV's + bigger stuff) but for < $200 USD you can get a wide variety of choices & options for BMS'.

You mention having a Victron Smartsolar 250/100 for 48v SCC (Great Stuff BTW) but not what Inverter/Charger you have. Victron is a Tier-1 product and they support LFP quite well. Their equipment can be made to interact with LFP battery packs so they can do their job most efficiently. IF you are in the "Victron Family" then I very highly recommend using two 16-S BMS' (one per pack) which can interact with Victron Systems so you can get the most from your investment. I cannot specify a particular BMS that will interact with Victron, there are several and there are threads in here discussing such in great detail. Even threads on using the Victron Software to manage it all nicely.

Once you know the status of all your cells, you will know which ones are toast, hopefully just the one which took the brunt, then you can order replacements as needed. I very highly doubt the vendor would take any responsibility, it's not their fault. If it is only one or two cells, count yourself very lucky indeed.

BTW: Personal Opinion: Some may say going without a BMS is OK... I say it's IDIOCY ! Yes you can live in a house with no fire / smoke detector or one with, which is safer @ 3am if the house catches fire ? We put thousands of dollars into battery systems and to not put failsafe protection on them is really dimwitted and risky. We install fuses & breakers for good reason and the BMS is the Last Stop should something go awry.

Thank you so much! I will try to find the threads that say which BMS to use with Victron.
 
This is the store:
Lifepo4 BATT Store

They told me I should have had a BMS and they aren't responsible because all cells are shipped


It is reading 3.358v right now. It did sit overnight from yesterday if that makes a difference.

If you setup correctly your charger, and if the other cells are OK, most likely that one puffed cell was not in balance with the others, or had some problem. In any case, if the seller its promoting them as a balanced pack, maybe you can have case and put a claim trough aliexpress. If they give you the reason, the supplier should send the deffective sell or return of payment.

As far as im aware the BMS its not a requirement, plenty of people work without them (Altough they are recomended to avoid this kind of disasters!)
 
If you setup correctly your charger, and if the other cells are OK, most likely that one puffed cell was not in balance with the others, or had some problem. In any case, if the seller its promoting them as a balanced pack, maybe you can have case and put a claim trough aliexpress. If they give you the reason, the supplier should send the deffective sell or return of payment.

As far as im aware the BMS its not a requirement, plenty of people work without them (Altough they are recomended to avoid this kind of disasters!)

OK i will try to go through aliexpress. I know everyone is telling me the BMS is required - and am going to get one - but Will has said its not required if the cells are new and balanced. Guess I should have come to the forum first and not just listened to that.
 
I think Will used to say that when BMS were +400USD and difficult to get (Old videos), nowadays they are cheap and plentiful, so i think he recommends using them now.

Either way its better to balance yourself and dont trust the suppliers, the cells usually arrive at the same voltage but that doesn't mean the are properly balanced!.
 
Since day 1 and having the abilty to see all of the 20 cells in live time fluctuating while charging when nearing the knee and I only go to 14.1v most of the time and on occasion 14.2v. If you have a weak cell you won't see it in the mid SOC% range but as you near full (or empty in use) it may become a runner.
I charge at a mild .12-.25 c rate (60-100a) but have loads up 175-200a multiple times a day every day. Couldn't imagine not having a bms as the last line of defense. ;)
 
If you have a weak cell you won't see it in the mid SOC% range but as you near full (or empty in use) it may become a runner.
I like that term "runner" because it describes the phenomena. When talking about a weak cell it is hard to imagine it getting ahead of the stronger cells, but saying that it becomes a runner describes perfectly what happens at the top and the bottom.
 
To all new folks just because the cell are matched as they sit with no load on them (either charge or discharging) doesn't mean they'll be that way in the knees when charging or discharging, as can be seen in photo all cells aren't perfectly match.

"In the knees"?
 
OK i will try to go through aliexpress. I know everyone is telling me the BMS is required - and am going to get one - but Will has said its not required if the cells are new and balanced. Guess I should have come to the forum first and not just listened to that.

I have been watching this thread with great interest trying to figure out why the battery didn't vent properly. That may help you make your case. Something does not seem right with that cell even though you had no BMS connected to it. The fact that it was the only cell that puffed up so badly is cause for a good case and it very well could have been something wrong internally with that cell.
 
I cannot specify a particular BMS that will interact with Victron, there are several and there are threads in here discussing such in great detail. Even threads on using the Victron Software to manage it all nicely.


The search on this forum is either very bad or I'm very ignorant of how to use it. I've looked for these threads and can't find them. Do you remember which forum they were in? Or do you know how to specify two required search keywords?
 
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