diy solar

diy solar

What batteries to buy in Canada in 2022

Trevor1

New Member
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
3
Location
Barrie, soon to be Sudbury area. Ont.
Hi Guys.. Very new at this. The wife and I will soon be moving off grid. Maybe a few months, or year. I wanted to get ahead of the game and start learning about these batteries and charge systems. We have not purchased property yet but hope to get land with a running river. What I have figured out so far is that no matter Wind, Solar, or Waterwheel.. all these things need batteries. My question is.. In these crazy times, what is the best battery for the buck to invest in. I do believe Im looking for 6x 12v 100amphr Lithium batteries. Does this sound correct? If not please tell me what is best and provide a link. We do not expect to have a living space greater than 1000sqr' I have already built a sun solar heat box that is currently working our home and was about to do a rain catch barrel filtering system.. but then we decided it may be time for us to make the move. So off the top of my head I need to power the Fridge, freezer, water pump, Lights, Internet/tv and power tools(bandsaw, bench grinder, drill press, charge cordless tools. Thats pretty much it.

Much appreciate any info you can offer.
 
! MOST IMPORTANT !
DO NOT BUY ANYTHING !!! There are No "Once in a Lifetime Deals" they happen all the time !
Do your homework & research, learn & understand what is involved.
ASK QUESTIONS !!! The ONLY Stupid Question is the ONE NOT ASKED !
Add your Province & Intended Region (nearest city is good) to your user profile.

Sorry, gonna be blunt but it's needed. Hard Pain saving is worth a tad bit of discomfort.
Off-Grid cabin or house FORGET 12V period !
24V is good up to 4000W Delivered. 120V/33A or 240V/17A. *
48V is good up to 8000W delivered. 120V/66A or 240V/33A. *
! 72V and above is possible BUT things, Rules & Regs change and insurance co's get quite twitchy.
* Uncorrected for inefficiency and NOT including surge capacity.

Hi Frequency Inverters can do 2X Surge Handling and not very good with "motors/pumps etc".
Lo Frequency Inverters can do 3X Surge Handling and handle all forms of electrical devices well.
Stand-By / Idle Current & Efficiencies vary greatly by Grade/Tier of product. Tier-1 (Victron, Samlex, Magnum) can be up to 96% Efficient with very low overhead. "Value Grade" Tier-3 are typically 82-88% Efficient and usually have a high standby draw. This DOES ADD UP and must be considered for operational overhead. No Surprise but Costs are Relative to Quality !
Inverter/Chargers & AIO's (All-In-Ones) can also be "Stacked" to increase output capacity from a Battery Bank.

Until you KNOW how much power you will need to:
1) Operate the target home on a daily basis in both Mid Summer & Mid Winter in Kilowatt Hours.
2) IF you will have Grid power on the property or not. Could be used as a backup to solar, or the other way around during transition. Grid Feed -In NOT a happy beast to deal with up here at this time pending where you are.
3) How many days of Stored Reserve power will you want on hand ? Typically most go for 3 days... I have 10 being near Algonquin Park. Winter CAN SUCK ! LOL
4) A Common Q a few years ago, do you need 240VAC, in general, not really BUT for future planning & supporting an EV etc, 240VAC is best & simplest. Simply put, it is no longer practical to go only 120V. This does not mean you have to use 240 Equipment if not necessary.

Most Important Rule of OFF GRID is CONSERVATION is FAR cheaper than Generation & Storage and always will be. Don't let anyone try to sell you a sac of beans on that point. Look at any appliances you may be taking with you. Stoves, Dryers, Dishwashers are the most notorious "appliances" people own. That fridge you inherited from grandma that keeps the Blue cold in the garage, goes to dump eh!

HINT: Induction Stoves with Air Fryer Ovens are presently the most efficient out there for electric - Stick to Name Brand ONLY! (240V BTW).

You did NOT mention if Building or just Buy & Move. Many things can be done to a house when building to really optimize for energy efficiency, passive heating/cooling and even for solar gain or shedding. Cost of Building today has become Ludicrous thanks to hyper-inflated material costs, even with local sawmill supplied materials.

Hope it helps get you started. Have a look in my Signature for some details & Info, check out "About My System" pages, it's going to be heavily updated soon but it'll give you some ideas & info.
 
! MOST IMPORTANT !
DO NOT BUY ANYTHING !!! There are No "Once in a Lifetime Deals" they happen all the time !
Do your homework & research, learn & understand what is involved.
ASK QUESTIONS !!! The ONLY Stupid Question is the ONE NOT ASKED !
Add your Province & Intended Region (nearest city is good) to your user profile.

Sorry, gonna be blunt but it's needed. Hard Pain saving is worth a tad bit of discomfort.
Off-Grid cabin or house FORGET 12V period !
24V is good up to 4000W Delivered. 120V/33A or 240V/17A. *
48V is good up to 8000W delivered. 120V/66A or 240V/33A. *
! 72V and above is possible BUT things, Rules & Regs change and insurance co's get quite twitchy.
* Uncorrected for inefficiency and NOT including surge capacity.

Hi Frequency Inverters can do 2X Surge Handling and not very good with "motors/pumps etc".
Lo Frequency Inverters can do 3X Surge Handling and handle all forms of electrical devices well.
Stand-By / Idle Current & Efficiencies vary greatly by Grade/Tier of product. Tier-1 (Victron, Samlex, Magnum) can be up to 96% Efficient with very low overhead. "Value Grade" Tier-3 are typically 82-88% Efficient and usually have a high standby draw. This DOES ADD UP and must be considered for operational overhead. No Surprise but Costs are Relative to Quality !
Inverter/Chargers & AIO's (All-In-Ones) can also be "Stacked" to increase output capacity from a Battery Bank.

Until you KNOW how much power you will need to:
1) Operate the target home on a daily basis in both Mid Summer & Mid Winter in Kilowatt Hours.
2) IF you will have Grid power on the property or not. Could be used as a backup to solar, or the other way around during transition. Grid Feed -In NOT a happy beast to deal with up here at this time pending where you are.
3) How many days of Stored Reserve power will you want on hand ? Typically most go for 3 days... I have 10 being near Algonquin Park. Winter CAN SUCK ! LOL
4) A Common Q a few years ago, do you need 240VAC, in general, not really BUT for future planning & supporting an EV etc, 240VAC is best & simplest. Simply put, it is no longer practical to go only 120V. This does not mean you have to use 240 Equipment if not necessary.

Most Important Rule of OFF GRID is CONSERVATION is FAR cheaper than Generation & Storage and always will be. Don't let anyone try to sell you a sac of beans on that point. Look at any appliances you may be taking with you. Stoves, Dryers, Dishwashers are the most notorious "appliances" people own. That fridge you inherited from grandma that keeps the Blue cold in the garage, goes to dump eh!

HINT: Induction Stoves with Air Fryer Ovens are presently the most efficient out there for electric - Stick to Name Brand ONLY! (240V BTW).

You did NOT mention if Building or just Buy & Move. Many things can be done to a house when building to really optimize for energy efficiency, passive heating/cooling and even for solar gain or shedding. Cost of Building today has become Ludicrous thanks to hyper-inflated material costs, even with local sawmill supplied materials.

Hope it helps get you started. Have a look in my Signature for some details & Info, check out "About My System" pages, it's going to be heavily updated soon but it'll give you some ideas & info.
Im sorry for the late reply.. but boy do I appreciate your style. Tell it to me straight! ;) I use the same when teaching new guys how to weld.. its either right or wrong, there is no such thing as good enough.
Kind of busy right now prepping the house to sell. I'll get back to this thread when I get a chance. Thanks Steve S
 
Hi again Steve.. Would be nice if it already had a small house but that means it sells with less land.
We are more inclined to buying 25-50 acres and then putting a new mobile home on it and going from there.
I see you are in the NE rural area of Ontario.. Do have any knowledge as to how difficult it may be to get permits for such things as a house, septic, well, road access, etc. Im hoping it wont be that difficult, but scary too as you can only apply after you take ownership if Im correct.
 
So off the top of my head I need to power the Fridge, freezer, water pump, Lights, Internet/tv and power tools(bandsaw, bench grinder, drill press, charge cordless tools.
Though Steve gave a very thorough outline of what needs to be done, I could fast-track things a bit by telling you what I'm actually seeing at my own place. First and foremost, you mention "water pump"? What exactly is that? Do you just want to move water from a catchment into the house, or is this a deep-well submerged pump? I know you're not there yet, but what's the expectation? A little surface pump might need only 100-200W, whereas a hp submerged pump will require a couple of kW of 240VAC?

At my own cabin running the frig, freezer, lights, TV, satelite router, and computer, I find myself consuming ~3.5kWh of power per day. 8-10kWh on hot summer days with the air-conditioner running. On orchard irrigation days however, it's 20+kWh of power. So, your first choice is either medium at 24V, or big at 48V. Completely agree with Steve about forgetting 12V completely. I'd suggest that with no submersable pump, medium is fine. Just about any submersible pump will require 48V.

One planning concept to get used to is the SunHour, or sh. That is NOT the number of hours the sun is up. It is a quicky conversion factor to estimate total production per day with a particular solar input. Not knowing better, I'll suggest you get 2sh for winter, and maybe 5sh in summer. So, with 1000W of panels, you'd expect to get 1000W X 2sh = 2000Wh of power in winter. 5000Wh in summer. Plan your system for the worst day of the year, not the best. So, if you need 3500Wh of power in December, you need to have at least 3500Wh/2sh = 1750W of panels.

A second consideration is the days of autonomy you need. That is, how long does the battery need to last if there is no solar. Assume a winter storm blows through, and the panels are covered with snow? How many days before they get cleaned off? If you are not there, and it takes three days for the snow to melt off, then the answer is 3.5kWh X 3 days = 10.5kWh.

If you get a premium Canadian brand, like these Rolls-Surrette batteries, you would have 568Ah X 24V X 50% = 6.8kWh of power, or enough for 2 days. At 48V that would give you four days of autonomy.

It just so happens that I have this battery right now in my 24V workshop, being charged by 2000W of grid-tie panels. I am very happy with their performance.

The last thing to talk about is your inverter. You want sine-wave if you have anything that runs on an electric motor, such as the frig, freezer, and power tools. MSW and SW inverters burn out motors quickly, so check carefully. I'll recommend the quality brands to you. Look at Magnum, Outback, Schneider, Samlex, and Victron for quality inverters. A good rule of thumb is to double the size of your load to select your inverter size. So, if your biggest load is a 2000W compressor, get at least a 4000W inverter.
 
Does anyone have experience with these batteries?


SfTdZ7g.png


At $2,100 CAD (approx $1640 USD) they seem to be the cheapest rack-mount LiFePO4 batteries available to Canadians at the moment...
 
Hi again Steve.. Would be nice if it already had a small house but that means it sells with less land.
We are more inclined to buying 25-50 acres and then putting a new mobile home on it and going from there.
I see you are in the NE rural area of Ontario.. Do have any knowledge as to how difficult it may be to get permits for such things as a house, septic, well, road access, etc. Im hoping it wont be that difficult, but scary too as you can only apply after you take ownership if Im correct.
A before O or up you Go ! LMAO, learned many decades ago. shhhh.... don't tell anyone.
Links below are from my Signature. Top one is out of date as I am in process of a major redo/update which changes some of what is there but the "About My System" link may answer several of your questions. DO look into the Blue Spoilers.
LINKS: About My System (updated Dec-17-2020)
➡️ Luyuan Tech Basic Lifepo4 Assembly Guide

I spent 18 months and drove 24,000kms looking & investigating properties, local & regional rules, building code requirements etc...
Ontario IS a PITA because things vary quite a bit... Closer you are to an Urban Containment Zones (cities >30K) the tighter the rules and more BS that must be dealt with. Then of course the Protected Areas and Restricted development areas also can be quite a challenge. My search was also for the "Right Type of land in a proper location". On a 1700 foot ridge, south facing, overlooking 3 Vallies below and No Development close by (surrounded by Protected Land, "thousands of acres", so I have a LOT of every imaginable critter here... @ 05:00 ish the Turkey's ensure I am getting my morning wakeup call... ;-) You have better be ready to drop CASH FAST when you find the right property, things are going fast! My property is classed as a Year Round Recreational & Hunt Camp, which allowed for some creativity, ;-)

Warning: Property with River/Lake access are now all subject to new Rules & Regs and some of them can be a royal PITA and also, the Flood zone Maps are NOT updated yet to reflect the new reality (in process). People are now getting flooded where there has been no previous flooding events. Insurance Co's are pretty "jittery" about this now.

TIP: If NE Ontario is the Target Location, look North & West from Petawawa/Pembroke and as far south "down the line" to Renfrew and westward from there. Up near the Golden Lake" area as well there are good properties @ good prices and reasonabe building requirements. 1St Question to ask any potential location is if there is a Minimum House Size requirement and that leads to the other questions. ALSO a GOTCHA for Ontario ! No RV's to be used as Residences off a Provincial Highway ! Secondary roads (Country) it is OK pending on Township, there may be site rules for setbacks etc.

Permits etc... TRIXY !
I self designed my home, had it xchecked and approved and self built my home and with my Classification was no problem. No electric Permit, no Grid but had it all inspected anyways. Well Drilling was a treat, 2 weeks to get to 300' deep in Banded Granit with a Cable Pounder (NOT BORE) which fractured the rock and allows for greater waterflow. My driller could have gone with his Boring Rig but he was plain that I'd have to get to 400-500 Feet to get the same flow. As drilling cost if By The Foot ad wanting better flow, the choice was obvious. When I had it drilled, the cost was $30 per foot for a 6" well. Then $20 a foot for the casing which has to be 2' above grade & 10' into the bedrock and sealed. THE PRICES WENT UP SINCE THEN ! The Well must be "uphill" and a Minimum of 50' from a septic field but that may vary per soil state/conditions, I have a Sandy Loam soil with excellent drainage.

BEFORE BUYING, if you "found the spot", go to the local town and talk to the building inspector and ask questions about what can and can't be built, any restrictions, minimum size, Well & Septic Requirements (many do allow for Composting Toilets, which is what I have) and also what rules are for accessory building AND if you can use an RV as temp shelter on property while building. Most are OK with the trailer/RV if NOT on a provincial highway. One way around that can be to use a large "Bunky" on skids which can be handy for guests later on.

Now, this veered OFF SolarPower, this isn't really the forum for such detail but if you need some more I can respond via Private Message so as to not fill this thread with non-solar info.

Final ponderances for you. I run only 120VAC but can easily switch to 240VAC. Deep Well pump is a 120V softstart Grundfos SQ and zero issues at all. I have over 30kWh of battery which gives me 5 days reserve at full use or 7-8 days in scrimp mode. (Hyper efficient Home makes the diff) and even with that I still have to use the Genset in winter once in a while because I have a Fixed Ground Mount setup. Lesson Learned: While I went 120V it is partly because of what was available at the time for the $ I had. 240VAC is now readily available at affordable prices and that would be the best choice. While I went 120V, I prewired everything to be able to just flip to 240, so all the "big" AC wire is in place to support it.

Hope it Helps, Good Luck.
 
Back
Top