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What cells to buy for large 24v 2000ah RV battery bank?

josbo26

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Hi,
I am looking for some advice for a battery bank I hope to build this summer. I am in the process of converting a city bus into an rv and I am planning on putting a large lifepo4 bank in. I am looking to boondock most of the time and would like to build a bank to exceed my power needs.

I am currently looking to build a 24v battery bank of 2000ah. I have plenty of space and I just want to be prepared. My question is when building my battery do I go with larger cells like some 500ah cells I have found or do I go with lots and lots of 100ah-200ah cells that are more plentiful and much cheaper? With either option how would you configure the cells?

I am pretty new to this so any advice is much appreciated.
Thanks!
 
getting into the nighmare of having hundreth of busbar and screws and BMS and fuse is not very appealing especially in a mobile system, with all the vibrations.
with 100A cell, 24V is 8 cells, so for 2000A, you need 20x8 cells = 160 cells, wow ! means 320 srcrews.
so, getting big cells (300A and more) , should be easier and cheaper (good copper bus bar are not free)
the only question is how do you will recharge this huge quantity of energy ?
you will need at least 10.000W of solar panels (30x 300W huge panels), and roof space is limited on a bus and you will hardly get 10 of them mounted.
perhaps you should start first with 1000A and check if you can fit the power bill in.
Getting 2 batteries of 1000A with each its own inverter is better than getting one of 2000A
 
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I'm curious what is driving you to build such a large battery bank? 50,000+ Wh is massive (especially for a mobile system), and like others have noted it will be very difficult to charge a bank this size.

I wonder if you have fully thought through your reasons for wanting to build a bank of this scale, and if so, if you have thought through how to build a balanced system of this scale within the constraints of a bus build. This much battery capacity may not offer the benefits you expect if the charging system can't keep up with your demand

I'm not trying to discourage you from a bank this size, but I am encouraging you to really thinking it through as an entire system, and make sure your design makes sense for your objectives.
 
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Case in point, was running my home with only 428AH total while on FLA and now transitioning to 910AH LFP which will give me a comfortable 5 days autonomy in squeeze mode. 1000AH is a lot and I my case I have to upgrade my 2kw of solar to 4kw and another Midnite 200 SCC to handle charging what I am putting in place.
 
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getting into the nighmare of having hundreth of busbar and screws and BMS and fuse is not very appealing especially in a mobile system, with all the vibrations.
with 100A cell, 24V is 8 cells, so for 2000A, you need 20x8 cells = 160 cells, wow ! means 320 srcrews.
so, getting big cells (300A and more) , should be easier and cheaper (good copper bus bar are not free)
the only question is how do you will recharge this huge quantity of energy ?
you will need at least 10.000W of solar panels (30x 300W huge panels), and roof space is limited on a bus and you will hardly get 10 of them mounted.
perhaps you should start first with 1000A and check if you can fit the power bill in.
Getting 2 batteries of 1000A with each its own inverter is better than getting one of 2000A

Right. I was not looking forward to the idea of putting together all of those batteries. I just was not sure if there was an advantage to using smaller cells as opposed to bigger ones. I have found some 500ah cells that will work but they are massive and shipping is going to be a killer but they would definitely be easier to work with in putting them together.

As for charging I do not anticipate using the full power of the batteries everyday. I am looking to build a battery bank that could power my needs for 4 to 5 days without any recharging. I will have 2k solar on the roof that I hope will be enough for my daily power consumption and a generator to help in times that it is not. Mostly I want to build a bank that if for some reason I do not see sun for days, I will still have the power I need.

I had never thought of creating two separate battery banks. Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to play around with that idea a bit. Thanks for all the advice as well!
 
LFP Cells can be had up to 1000AH each, X8 for 24V.
Winston 1000AH cells are $1309 USD ea. $10,472‬ for 8 to make 24V + S&H !

Thanks for the link. Those are massive! cost is unfortunately a factor for me. Pricing out these battery cells I have found that the best priced cells are in the 100 -200 ah range. Shipping is what really kills the deal with some of the larger cells. Really I am just looking to see if there is an advantage at ll besides cost to getting smaller cells as compared to the bigger ones.
 
I'm curious what is driving you to build such a large battery bank? 50,000+ Wh is massive (especially for a mobile system), and like others have noted it will be very difficult to charge a bank this size.

I wonder if you have fully thought through your reasons for wanting to build a bank of this scale, and if so, if you have thought through how to build a balanced system of this scale within the constraints of a bus build. This much battery capacity may not offer the benefits you expect if the charging system can't keep up with your demand

I'm not trying to discourage you from a bank this size, but I am encouraging you to really thinking it through as an entire system, and make sure your design makes sense for your objectives.

Thanks for the post. This is all pretty new to me. It may be a bit oversized for what I actually need. Here is what I am hoping to accomplish. Maybe you can give me a better Idea of what would work best.
I am looking to need about 300 to 400 ah a day for my regular power needs. I hope to put 2k of solar on the roof to meet that need. I will also have a generator for times when more is required.

I want the battery bank to be able to go 4 or 5 days of regular power consumption without any charging. Say I have no sunlight or run out of fuel for the generator. Worst case scenario kind of stuff. With cost and Space available as factors that is how I came to 2000ah.

As for charging I had hoped that the solar would be enough to replenish my daily usage only. Meaning the bulk of the battery energy would remain stored and ready for use when needed. I plan to use less energy a day then the solar panels can bring in. Am I missing something here with charging that would make this not work?

You also mentioned to make sure to build a balanced system. What exactly do yo mean by that? Partially that is why I made this post to help figure out how to make such a big system balanced. My primary concern is cell size and what would work best as it relates to the whole system. What would you do to create a balanced system that would meet my needs? Any advice is very much appreciated. Thank you for making me think about all of this and helping me figure out what will work best.
 
Assuming an 8SxP wiring configuration,

Pros of smaller cells:
Redundant strings. If one cell gives up, you're not dead in the water (bad pun)

Cons of smaller cells:
Dedicated BMS per string of cells. 500ah cells would require 4 BMS for a 2000ah pack, while 200ah cells would require 10 BMS.
Excessive busbar work. Here's the result of a 64 cell pack:IMG_0793.jpg
 
Hi,
I am looking for some advice for a battery bank I hope to build this summer. I am in the process of converting a city bus into an rv and I am planning on putting a large lifepo4 bank in. I am looking to boondock most of the time and would like to build a bank to exceed my power needs.

I am currently looking to build a 24v battery bank of 2000ah. I have plenty of space and I just want to be prepared. My question is when building my battery do I go with larger cells like some 500ah cells I have found or do I go with lots and lots of 100ah-200ah cells that are more plentiful and much cheaper? With either option how would you configure the cells?

I am pretty new to this so any advice is much appreciated.
Thanks!

Would love to see your power-budget requirements ... 2000aH /24V is a pretty hefty -- not just from a battery perspective but also from a "How are you going to charge them?" ...
 
Assuming an 8SxP wiring configuration,

Pros of smaller cells:
Redundant strings. If one cell gives up, you're not dead in the water (bad pun)

Cons of smaller cells:
Dedicated BMS per string of cells. 500ah cells would require 4 BMS for a 2000ah pack, while 200ah cells would require 10 BMS.
Excessive busbar work. Here's the result of a 64 cell pack:View attachment 8740

So just a little side chuckle on your picture .. YEP real busbars are pretty expensive ... so we go out to the sites where the plumbers are and borrow (sneak?) some 2" and 3" OD copper pipe and then take it over to the "road" guys and have them drive one of their huge road rollers over it when they get a chance ...

HOLY COW -- I mean perfect way of making a great busbar -- unfortunately you need a road roller and thats something that most folks just don't have sitting around in their garage ...

NOW one way of cheating that I have done often is to lay the 3" pipe on the concrete ... put a piece of lumber over it -- then drive my truck back and forth .. another excellent way of making excellent CHEAP busbars...
 
Funny you mention that, since these were made from flattened refrigerant tubing!
 
Funny you mention that, since these were made from flattened refrigerant tubing!

EXCELLENT -- they look like solid store-bought pieces ....

Its kinda of funny -- once you get copper flattened out by a road-roller you start trying to find other cool things -- coke cans is one of my favourite things to crush .... I don't use them for anything electrical but they make great mats to solder things on so you don't leave any marks on anything from soldering ... (Yeah lets just say I am not really a soldering Iron girl -- i am more of a "lets fire that blow torch up and melt some things!!")
 
Assuming an 8SxP wiring configuration,

Pros of smaller cells:
Redundant strings. If one cell gives up, you're not dead in the water (bad pun)

Cons of smaller cells:
Dedicated BMS per string of cells. 500ah cells would require 4 BMS for a 2000ah pack, while 200ah cells would require 10 BMS.
Excessive busbar work. Here's the result of a 64 cell pack:View attachment 8740

Thanks for the advice! Your bus bar work is super impressive! I am definitely leaning towards the larger cells as there will be less connections and less chances of error on my part.
 
Would love to see your power-budget requirements ... 2000aH /24V is a pretty hefty -- not just from a battery perspective but also from a "How are you going to charge them?" ...
Power requirements are not that big. Hoping between 5k -10k daily. I will have a 2k solar setup to handle daily use. I mostly want this big of a system to handle days of no sun. I am trying to build a system that if for some reason I could not recharge the batteries that the bank would give me five days of use. I am pretty new to all of this and could use any advice you can give. What problems with charging will I have with my proposed system setup and planned usage? Do you think a smaller system would serve me better? Let me know and thanks for your help!
 
you can probably find a 2 tons jack press easier than a road roller.
it is a lot of work anyway, probably easier to just buy copper strip (25mm wide by 4 mm thick 5 meters long should cost less than 100$)
 
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An old Axiom that has always been true and most importantly when it comes to solar. Conservation is FAR CHEAPER than Generation & storage.
5kwh a day is pretty steep for a mobile installation. Are you running electric heaters & big Air conditioning or what ? A mini-split is super cheap to operate and very efficient... Do you have an "energy pig" fridge or freezer ? Might be best to look at that as well...

I suggest you might want to sit down and figure out the following; Needs - the essential must have, Wants - the things you want to be able to do and Would Likes - which is all the extras you can think of above & beyond need & want. Next, evaluate he equipment, appliances you want to use and determine if they are the best unit for this application. Things like a fridge can be shockingly power hungry but the newer Energy Star read appliances can be very efficient. Example, my "old" fridge used 750 Kwh per year, my new one uses 237Kwh in a year (It's a Danby Energy Star rated unit).

I am NOT saying this to be a pain but rather because I would hate to see you waste money in one direction when you could apply it for benefit to you in another way. 5kwh-10kwh is what a normal house with usual appliances etc would consume.
 
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I, like @ghostwriter66 would also be curious to see your daily power budget. 300-400ah @ 24v (7,500-10,000 Wh) is not a small number, and the cheapest way to increase capacity is to consume less.

You also mentioned to make sure to build a balanced system. What exactly do yo mean by that?

I mean, scaling up your system proportionally. There should be balance between (1) your daily consumption (2) your charging systems (3) your battery bank).

Many people when they first start designing a system are overly focused on battery capacity for the wrong reasons. They assume a big battery bank will compensate for high power consumption, without considering the charging system. There are some situations where this is okay (like weekend trips), but for longterm sustainability its usually more important (and considerably cheaper) to focus on inputs (your charging systems) and outputs (your power consumers and power consumption habits), because if your inputs cant meet your outputs it doesn't matter how big your battery bank is. The primary utility of a large battery bank (like you correctly noted) is extending 'days of autonomy.' So in that regard, I think you are on the right track in terms of what you are expecting from your batteries.

But, the system needs to have some balance. Your charging systems need the capacity to not only meet your daily needs, but be able to recharge your battery bank in a timely manner if your batteries are depleted. This is something that many people overlook. There should be a term for this equivalent to days of autonomy that encapsulates this, maybe 'days of recovery' and you should have a target for this as well.

Taking (a simplified version of) your system as an example, lets consider the numbers:
With a 50,000 watt-hour system, daily consumption of 10,000 watt-hours, and a PV array capable of generating roughly 10,000 watt-hours on a very good day (2kw x 5hrs).
  1. On a good day, your system is sustainable (roughly7-10kW in 7-10kW out)
  2. Your system is sized to give you 4-5 days of autonomy in worst case conditions after which time your batteries would be fully depleted.
  3. But now you have a 40,000 watt-hour deficit to make up, it would take 4 days of full sun to make this up IF your power consumption was zero, but because your solar array is sized to just barely meet your needs you have no extra generation capacity to make up this deficit.
Ideally your system would design for days of autonomy which is the ratio of usable battery capacity / daily consumption and also design for days of recovery which is the ratio of usable battery capacity / (daily power generated - daily consumption)

So for example, assuming 4 days of no sun (40,000 Wh deficit) and taking your best case numbers of 7,500Wh daily consumption and 10,000 Wh daily PV generation (40000 / (10000 - 7500) = 16 days of good conditions. Put differently, assuming solar is the only input, it would take 16 days of good conditions based on best case numbers to make up for 4 days of autonomy, or 4 days of good conditions to make up for 1 day of no sun. Keep in mind these results are based on your best case numbers (300ah consumed, 2kw of solar @ max output for 5 hours), If we assume 400ah (10,000wh) the number of days of recovery increases from 16 to infinity.


Obviously reality will be a bit more complicated than this, good days will seldom be perfect, bad days will seldom be zero, 4 bad days in a row might be rare and 16 good days in a row will be even rarer. Moreover a generator or shore power would substantially change this equation, and shorten your days of recovery to hours. But then if you are reliant on a generator or shore power to charge your batteries one way or another, its at least considering whether the added cost of such a large battery bank is worth it, if the end result is that it will delay but not alleviate your reliance on a generator.

There are many good (and personal) reasons that it may still be worth it. And many specifics of your situation that make this decision personal to you. God knows I hate generators, and I would be willing to spend more on batteries and panels and efficient appliances if it meant I wasn't reliant on one. But I would first be looking at how to lower my power consumption, then at how to increase generation, and lastly at how to add more battery capacity which is the most costly component of your system.

And I would want to be clear eyed about what the extra cost would accomplish. Maybe you live in a part of the country where sunny days outnumber shitty days 4 to 1 or 10 to 1, in this case 4 days of recovery per 1 day of autonomy is reasonable and would cut down on your generator use substantially. Or maybe you live in the pacific northwest and will never be able to count on a sunny to shitty ratio of 4 to 1 outside of the summer months. But remember the 4 to 1 ratio was based on optimistic numbers and zero efficiency loss, so don't count on achieving that with your system as currently designed.

I don't mean to sound negative, and I truly am not trying to talk you out of your planned system (though I would strongly suggest looking into adding generation capacity, and cutting power consumption first), and to some extent i'm thinking out loud (well not technically out loud, but you get the point). I'm still thinking through this 'days of recovery' concept (and welcome critique, push-back, and/or additions), but I think its an oft overlooked component of system design. But reality is much more complicated than my little thought experiment, your system as planned might make the most sense for your situation, I can't really say one way or the other with the information I have.
 
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the best way to start is the solar panels, since your space is limited.
check how much you can fit on the roof of the car, then all the rest will be sized easily and you will know the limits.

Example: you can fit 6x 300panels = 1800Wh = 9000W for a 5h sunny day , practically probably half of that 4500W.
Since you probably want to use electricity also when sun is out, let's say you keep half of production to charge battery, half of it is immediately burned. so you got about 2200W to store in battery. that is 90A under 24V, so a 100Ah battery will do the job.
you probably will use these 2200W spreaded over several hours (probably more than the 5h available ) , so during the charge time you will get more energy than during the discharge time. So the discharge periode will be the yardstick.
Let say this periode is about 7 hours. So 2200W/7=315Wh. during charge time, you will get 2200/5= 440Wh

Whatever you do, if you need more power here, you will need to increase the solar panel surface or get another source.
As said above, going to spare energy will be your best friend here.

Now if you want to keep security in case you get one or 2 bad days, you can take a 300Ah battery. You will use it most of the time like a 100Ah, but in case of problem, you know there si 200Ah left. This is not 2 addditional days, because 200Ax24V=4800W, that about what you get and spend for one day.
 
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Hi. Totally uninformed advice here. Since you have a generator. Why not size your battery bank to handle 70 to 80% of your expected energy requirements. Then let the generator pick up the slack on a string of cloudy days. Running a generator on $5.00 of gas is cheaper than $1000.00 in extra batteries. And you were planning on using the generator at times anyway.
 
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