What Current Brand Do You Trust The Most? (Off-Grid)

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

Hopefully I'm not coming in hot and starting a war, but I've noticed there are a lot of options now available for smaller off-grid setups, around 3kW. The thing I'm noticing is that some brands I really can't trust any further than I can throw them.

I have a 2-year old system that puts (4) 300W 24V panels on the roof of my 16' trailer. I mostly built the system for fun and it's just enough to run a small de-humidifier throughout most of a 24h period, plus lights and small power tool chargers. Despite the old picture, I now have 24V 300Ah worth of AGM.
Early pics:

In the future, I'd like to buy a newer trailer, maybe even PV my shed or a ~20' camper. For any of those, I would like to build a moderate <2kW PV in, 3kW 120V/60Hz out system that runs a few things, including small AC units. In addition, I want to be able to switch back to shore power if my batteries are depleted. So about 25A in/out for the AC side of things. You get the idea, this puts a pretty wide range of affordable products, especially All-In-One products like MPP, Growatt, Renogy, PowMr. You also have component-based systems, like Victron, EPEVER, Renogy, and then bigger hybrid/grid-tie systems, like Sol-Ark, Sungold, and SolarEdge (I think).

Thinking back to the idea of an RV/Camper/Trailer system that could see 1-2kW PV input and 12-24V in batteries, these All-in-one systems look really nice and clean to install. They also do a great job prioritizing different output sources and charging sources. My only issue is that a lot of these companies are new to the market, made in China, and seem to have growing pains. They're not UL listed, some have some minor flaws or bugs, some people question their quality or safety. Although they offer a VERY CLEAN solution with very few cables, quality and performance are a huge concern.

I think this is why I see a lot of RV owners using Victron products, because they seem to be very high quality, but Victron doesn't really have a lot of AIO systems, and definitely not 120V/60Hz. With Victron, you have to still buy all of the individual components and then wires, bus bars, breakers, combiners, etc. A typical "Clean" RV setup might look like this:

Which is still a lot of individual components and wiring.

 

[Hedges]

I use SMA Sunny Island (battery) with Sunny Boy (PV), AC coupled. Expensive unless you get liquidation or old model deals.
That would be rather big and heavy especially for a small RV. It is better for 5kW or larger fixed system.
Sunny Island (US model) is 120V, so needs either 120/240V transformer or 2x Sunny Island for use with 240V GT inverters.
Can also be used with DC coupled PV (e.g. Midnight Classic), but AC coupled is best.

 

[HRTKD]

The lack of an all-in-one device does seem to be a hole in Victron's product line. But as a DIY guy, I probably wouldn't use it anyhow. I prefer the component approach, sizing each component for what it needs to do.

I recognize than an all-in-one reduces the number of wires and simplifies an install. No doubt about it. For folks that are doing an install in a small RV (think teardrop or an R-Pod), they have room for components, but may not have room for a big all-in-one.

 

[rmaddy]

The lack of an all-in-one device does seem to be a hole in Victron's product line.

Do you mean this (update - this is 230V only, not good for North America):

EasySolar - Victron Energy

Combine a MPPT Solar Charge Controller, an inverter/charger and AC distribution in one enclosure with the EasySolar. Find a dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

 

[HRTKD]

Do you mean this:

EasySolar - Victron Energy

Combine a MPPT Solar Charge Controller, an inverter/charger and AC distribution in one enclosure with the EasySolar. Find a dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

Yeah, that one. That nobody seems to use. I don't know that I've seen anyone on the forum use it. It's like the red headed step child in the Victron line.

 

[rmaddy]

Yeah, that one. That nobody seems to use. I don't know that I've seen anyone on the forum use it. It's like the red headed step child in the Victron line.

I haven't heard mention of it either. I stumbled across it on their website a month or two ago and was surprised. I'm not a fan of all-in-ones. I don't want my whole system down because one smaller part isn't working right. But I see the appeal due to ease and smaller footprint.

 

[Horsefly]

Do you mean this:

EasySolar - Victron Energy

Combine a MPPT Solar Charge Controller, an inverter/charger and AC distribution in one enclosure with the EasySolar. Find a dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

That seems to be a 230VAC system, so we in the US are out of luck.

 

[rmaddy]

That seems to be a 230VAC system, so we in the US are out of luck.

Good catch. I hadn't looked at the specs, just that it was an all-in-one. Good to know.

 

[John Frum]

These companies make products that I particularly like.
Samlex, Wago, Channellock, Cresent, Littlelfuse and Mechanical Products, Victron, Commercial Electric and Gardner Bender.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

Do you mean this:

EasySolar - Victron Energy

Combine a MPPT Solar Charge Controller, an inverter/charger and AC distribution in one enclosure with the EasySolar. Find a dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

I mentioned in the first post, they don't have many AIO systems, but, particularly, they lack 120V/60hz. All of Victron's AIO systems are 230V/50Hz EU.

 

[rmaddy]

I mentioned in the first post, they don't have many AIO systems, but, particularly, they lack 120V/60hz. All of Victron's AIO systems are 230V/50Hz EU.

Yeah, sorry. I admit I was just replying to HRTKD's post and I hadn't seen that you already mentioned that in the OP. Didn't mean to send this thread off on a dead end.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

The lack of an all-in-one device does seem to be a hole in Victron's product line. But as a DIY guy, I probably wouldn't use it anyhow. I prefer the component approach, sizing each component for what it needs to do.

I recognize than an all-in-one reduces the number of wires and simplifies an install. No doubt about it. For folks that are doing an install in a small RV (think teardrop or an R-Pod), they have room for components, but may not have room for a big all-in-one.

Individual components certainly gives you more flexibility, but since most people like to (should) slightly oversize their equipment, I think it's perfectly acceptable to size AIO units into small/medium/large categories....oh, and AIOs tend to be stackable.

A 3k-in/3k-out would be a perfectly reasonable size for a 30A (well, 25A usable) trailer with 1-1.5k PV. 6k/6k for a 50A RV with 1-2k on the roof.

As far as space individual components can be arranged to fit, but you will still have more components, wire, weight, and space taken up, overall. More safety cut-offs, interface units, shunts, breakers, networking interfaces so the components can talk, and breathing space for each unit.

The great thing about AIOs is you really only have 4 cables: Battery, PV, Sine, and optional AC input. So long as you have a place to put the AIO, it's just that and your batteries.

 

[HRTKD]

As far as space individual components can be arranged to fit, but you will still have more components, wire, weight, and space taken up, overall. More safety cut-offs, interface units, shunts, breakers, networking interfaces so the components can talk, and breathing space for each unit.

I brought that up because there was a forum member that specifically chose to use components in his build because they fit better in his small form trailer than would an all-in-one.

 

[Maast]

Honestly, if I'm in a trailer in the middle of nowhere I want absolutely deadnuts reliable and I'd rather go with a component approach and the brands that "just work, always" with "just can't kill it no matter what I do to it" reliability:
Victron, Outback, Magnum, Midnite pretty much exclusively. You get what you pay for.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

Honestly, if I'm in a trailer in the middle of nowhere I want absolutely deadnuts reliable and I'd rather go with a component approach and the brands that "just work, always" with "just can't kill it no matter what I do to it" reliability:
Victron, Outback, Magnum, Midnite pretty much exclusively. You get what you pay for.

Well, that's the main reason I started this discussion.

Reliability (not to mention safety) is key with these components. I'm willing to pay more for that kind of quality, and when I look at a lot of these current AIO brands, I see really cool products packaged beautifully, I must say. They're praised for their functionality, and their charging/output priority modes.

That said, they're all made in China, no UL listing, a few quirks, and really, I wouldn't trust them as much as I trust those brands, you've stated. As far as I'm aware, these brands don't have an AIO, single box solution for Grid-in, PV-in, Battery in/out, & 120V/60Hz out. Which is another reason I started this discussion.

For the record, per your recommendation (Midnight), I do see the MN3548DIY might be right up my alley.

Lastly, while components have their advantages, I find that many campers, you really have to be conscious about how much weight you're adding to the payload and where you're adding it. A lot of Victron components can add up, especially with copper lines, switches, disconnects, shunts, etc. and we're still not talking about batteries. And I don't really think they're that big or hard to find space for, assuming you can install one sideways, it should fit in almost any cargo compartment.

 

[HRTKD]

I hear you on the added weight. One of the attractions of LiFePO4 was that I was going to lose weight over the flooded lead acid batteries. For the batteries, I did indeed lose weight while increasing my usable Ah by almost 5x. Adding two solar charge controllers, solar panel, a LiFePO4-specific converter and all the fuses, circuit breakers and cabling ate up all the weight that I gained from the LiFePO4 batteries, and then some.

I upgraded the leaf springs, bearings and brake drums from 5200 lbs to 6000 lbs to help out a bit with that.

 

[Wellbuilt]

Here is a out back all in one ( sort of) it’s a flex power one unit 3600/48v
you could get a larger unit if you want , the down fall is there is no way to stack these as fare as I know , you can add a second fm80 charge with breakers and shunt

 

[toms]

The victron all in ones contain the individual components preassembled in a housing.

You can replace any of the individual components as you could if you assembled them yourself.

Out of all my inverters (SMA/Victron/MPP/Latronics), if i had to rely on one for my life it would be the Latronics - that unit is super solid.

 

[anadiner]

Hopefully I'm not coming in hot and starting a war, but I've noticed there are a lot of options now available for smaller off-grid setups, around 3kW. The thing I'm noticing is that some brands I really can't trust any further than I can throw them.

I have a 2-year old system that puts (4) 300W 24V panels on the roof of my 16' trailer. I mostly built the system for fun and it's just enough to run a small de-humidifier throughout most of a 24h period, plus lights and small power tool chargers. Despite the old picture, I now have 24V 300Ah worth of AGM.
Early pics:

In the future, I'd like to buy a newer trailer, maybe even PV my shed or a ~20' camper. For any of those, I would like to build a moderate <2kW PV in, 3kW 120V/60Hz out system that runs a few things, including small AC units. In addition, I want to be able to switch back to shore power if my batteries are depleted. So about 25A in/out for the AC side of things. You get the idea, this puts a pretty wide range of affordable products, especially All-In-One products like MPP, Growatt, Renogy, PowMr. You also have component-based systems, like Victron, EPEVER, Renogy, and then bigger hybrid/grid-tie systems, like Sol-Ark, Sungold, and SolarEdge (I think).

Thinking back to the idea of an RV/Camper/Trailer system that could see 1-2kW PV input and 12-24V in batteries, these All-in-one systems look really nice and clean to install. They also do a great job prioritizing different output sources and charging sources. My only issue is that a lot of these companies are new to the market, made in China, and seem to have growing pains. They're not UL listed, some have some minor flaws or bugs, some people question their quality or safety. Although they offer a VERY CLEAN solution with very few cables, quality and performance are a huge concern.

I think this is why I see a lot of RV owners using Victron products, because they seem to be very high quality, but Victron doesn't really have a lot of AIO systems, and definitely not 120V/60Hz. With Victron, you have to still buy all of the individual components and then wires, bus bars, breakers, combiners, etc. A typical "Clean" RV setup might look like this:

Which is still a lot of individual components and wiring.

AIMS. Im a big fan. Even bought one of their converter chargers to keep my 24v batt bank charged off generator while panel shopping.

Found them when desperate for UL1741 Listed products. Everybody else wanted your first child (price joke) to get UL but my boner county requires it.

Its something like aimscorp.net and btw Im not a rep or anything like that. Just impressed and like to pass it on.

 

[anadiner]

Forgot to mention: I too bought a couple cheapo China inverters to get by in my camper. (house burned down, no ins, code being jerks so cdnt temp power pole). Building tiny home with couple 24s UL Listed but hiding cheapos with marine lead acid batts in shed atm (used fire brick, welding blankets and conduit I had laying around for safety).

They work fine BUT noticed not grounded. Used copper line from burnt house to do that.

Reminds me UL458 is self-grounded. UL1741 isnt. Note that since ur off-grid like me.

My personal opinion is Victron is beyond over-rated. Their controllers are like those little plastic cheapos. Seems like they promote promote promote. Growatt seems ok. I just cant afford them.

Btw, Im an old lady Intel veteran that believes if I can do this, anybody can.