What I feel would be nice to have in an Off grid AIO

[Mattb4]

After running several Off grid and Off grid hybrid styles of AIO's I find myself wishing that the builders would add certain features.

#1. Either a full featured display on the AIO that gave you access to changing practically all AIO settings (things like output voltages and Hz by the numbers and not just a set range) or a darned good method and software to plug a computer into to do this. Said software should be easily found for download and not be internet connected required to work. If they really must be smart phone centric than use a method such as Bluetooth so that it is all done without internet connection required. Off grid folks often lack great internet access.

#2 This AIO's display should allow for being left always on, or have timeout to turn off settings.

#3 NG bonding for AIO should be thoroughly explained for all types of setups from using GAB (grid as backup-UPS style), generator input or no AC input connections. Off grid AIOs should have the ability to enable or disable interior NG bonding. No funky or ambiguos expalntions in the manual.

#4. Off grid AIO's should allow for battery charging from practically any generator.

#5 Good access to wiring blocks and terminals. High quality terminal blocks are a must! While bundling breakers into the AIO may be handy it is not really necessary unless they are good quality.

 

[Mattb4]

#6. An indication that it is time to clean the filters. Perhaps settable for clean (longer time) or dirty environments. Does not need to be a klaxon warning or a glaring red disaster light. Should not affect operation when it comes on.

 

[Mattb4]

Probably old hat to many of you but I ran into something that might make the ideal display/control unit for an Off grid AIO if the AIO supported it. An Android tablet. I just bought a new 10.1 inch one for under $50 that I am going to test it out. Probably can load the apps for my bluetooth BMS and also my drone.

Perhaps an old dog can learn new tricks.

 

[meetyg]

Definitely +1 for the option for internal NG bonding (automatic). Would make life much easier when installing.

I don't have much fantasies for an AIO - Just one wish: Proper charging and support for Lifepo4, in all modes. Seems hit and miss with some of these AIOs. They say that they support multiple chemistries, but alot of these still have some firmware gremlins.

I would like open source firmware. I know it's complicated, especially when it comes to power electronics. But still, let us be in charge (at least for those who want it).
That way the DIY community could fix bugs and add features. Kinda like what OpenWRT did to routers years ago...

 

[Mattb4]

Revisiting this Thread now that I have been running longer as complete Off-grid.

#1. My Anenji "Blue" hybrid 12kW does have a touchscreen interface that in theory would allow this want to be met. In practice it is buggy and the remote BT access, using the app and an Android tablet is cumbersome due to badly thought out programming.

#2. The Anenji screen can be set to be always on. I find this to be a great feature.

#3. NG bonding is settable in the Anenji but not explained in the manual when to select it or not.

#4. As of yet I still know of no Off grid AIO that has separate from the inverter circuitry (thus not needing to be in AC bypass operation) to take an AC input from generator and charge from it to the battery while running the inverter for AC out.

#5. Good wiring blocks are becoming more available in some of the more expensive hybrid offerings which can be made to work Off grid but being hybrid adds to cost, complexity and possible code/utility co. requirements for use.

It would be nice to see a purpose built Off grid AIO that does not assume you have, grid, full time high speed Internet access and an inverter generator to work with it. And if it could come in a choice of colors, select-able alarm tones (To distinguish types of alarms) or add on skins to personalize the look it would be better.

 

[doing it different]

Also wish you can use 120v generator or 220v

 

[CommandoJoe]

I suspect the target audience for many of these is pretty small, or they perceive it to be small. They expect a professional will install and setup... Home solar isn't to the level of mass market consumer products where they have a slick interface like your smart TV's and whatnot, and they don't see the need to spend resources to deliver that consumer experience.

Most people just want things to work and are not regularly monitoring, tweaking, and tinkering like a lot of us here do.

 

[TK1979]

#4. As of yet I still know of no Off grid AIO that has separate from the inverter circuitry (thus not needing to be in AC bypass operation) to take an AC input from generator and charge from it to the battery while running the inverter for AC out.

This would be a great feature !

 

[Mattb4]

I suspect the target audience for many of these is pretty small, or they perceive it to be small. They expect a professional will install and setup... Home solar isn't to the level of mass market consumer products where they have a slick interface like your smart TV's and whatnot, and they don't see the need to spend resources to deliver that consumer experience.

Most people just want things to work and are not regularly monitoring, tweaking, and tinkering like a lot of us here do.

Off grid does not have to only refer to isolated out back dwellers but it also applies to RV and marine usage. I think one of the issues is grid centric thinking that solar power should be sent to the grid (for the good of the collective) to be fully used. Off grid can often see panels sit idle once loads are covered and batteries are charged.

The AIO designers may not perceive the need without someone pointing it out. Also the market may be a growing one as solar gridtie special benefits are reduced by PoCo's. Why give your solar power away for free?

 

[TK1979]

Also the market may be a growing one as solar gridtie special benefits are reduced by PoCo's. Why give your solar power away for free?

This 1000%

 

[CommandoJoe]

Off grid does not have to only refer to isolated out back dwellers but it also applies to RV and marine usage. I think one of the issues is grid centric thinking that solar power should be sent to the grid (for the good of the collective) to be fully used. Off grid can often see panels sit idle once loads are covered and batteries are charged.

The AIO designers may not perceive the need without someone pointing it out. Also the market may be a growing one as solar gridtie special benefits are reduced by PoCo's. Why give your solar power away for free?

Oh for sure it is. But at what point does it make financial sense for them to spend the resources developing it, and how much more are people willing to pay?
Look at how much Midnite products cost - they are not shipping huge quantities of product so they have to price accordingly, which puts it out of the reach for many people. On top of this, almost everything is designed and built in China, so there's the international/language/cultural disconnect.
The people that have the money to spend, are more often than not just paying someone to do it all for them and don't care about the details so much. The DIY'er is more often than not doing it to save money and not pay $50k for a solar setup. As a result they have to know and care about the details. I still think it's going to be a pretty niche market for a while...

I come across so many people that have no clue when I ask about their solar setup.

A recent conversation with someone about their offgrid system:
"I think my batteries are bad and need to be replaced."
What kind of batteries do you have? Flooded lead acid? If so, have you been watering them? What's the charging voltage, do you equalize them? AGM? Lithium?
"I don't know, I paid someone setup my system for me."

And they were ready to just rush out and order some on Walmart without knowing what they have.

If you browse any of the DIY Solar groups on Facebook you'll see what I mean. So many people are clueless.

 

[Mattb4]

Developing the ideal Off-grid AIO should be rather inexpensive. You simply are removing much of the features of hybrid AIO's while adding in a charger/chargeverter. The programming is fairly straight forward as well since, other than battery and remote monitoring, a lot of grid related things go away. UL listing for all the grid interconnection becomes unnecessary just a UL listing allowing building departments to permit it (If you live in one of those places).

I would be surprised if it could not be whipped up in a Chinese factory in a no time at all. Look at the bewildering array of power packs (soalr generators) available these days.

But I agree the pool of people that understand the appliances they own is small. This however has not limited the amount of appliances. Heck I own a smart phone and barely know much about it. The first time someone handed me one to make a phone call I had to hand it back as I had no clue how to use it to place a call.

 

[ConnerLabs]

The double conversion off-grid AIO described above would be pretty popular amongst forum members. The question is how much of a market there would be for it in general.

 

[CommandoJoe]

Developing the ideal Off-grid AIO should be rather inexpensive. You simply are removing much of the features of hybrid AIO's while adding in a charger/chargeverter. The programming is fairly straight forward as well since, other than battery and remote monitoring, a lot of grid related things go away. UL listing for all the grid interconnection becomes unnecessary just a UL listing allowing building departments to permit it (If you live in one of those places).

I would be surprised if it could not be whipped up in a Chinese factory in a no time at all. Look at the bewildering array of power packs (soalr generators) available these days.

But I agree the pool of people that understand the appliances they own is small. This however has not limited the amount of appliances. Heck I own a smart phone and barely know much about it. The first time someone handed me one to make a phone call I had to hand it back as I had no clue how to use it to place a call.

Start a letter writing campaign to the various Chinese manufacturers. Maybe start with @EcoWorthy @ECO-WORTHY Kai @ECO-WORTHY Sunny @ECO-WORTHY-Shelly @ECO-WORTHY Jac @ECO-Worthy B2B Manager since they have a presence here, even though they rebadge, they can put it to their manufacturers...

 

[doing it different]

The double conversion off-grid AIO described above would be pretty popular amongst forum members. The question is how much of a market there would be for it in general.

I have thought to use a AIO in you work trailer. That has a few solar panels. It's all self contained. Space is a premium.
What happens when I plug in at a customers and the smart meter sees back feeding which these are supposedly bad for.

Either the design needs to be fixed so it reacts fast enough or separate chargeverter needs to be rebuilt in.

It like this for boats, RV, mobile equipment etc

 

[doing it different]

Also another thing... like parallel inverter generators. All inverters should be able to link to another inverter, no extra cables.. I want to have house inverter, and a barn inverter but are connected on the AC side.
So I can build a mini grid, just like the real grid. Everything can help each other if online. Or even a stand alone box to sync inverters...

Brings up the question "If" to inverters where turned on at the exact time, and phased properly... would it work???? No smoke.

 

[ConnerLabs]

Also another thing... like parallel inverter generators. All inverters should be able to link to another inverter, no extra cables.. I want to have house inverter, and a barn inverter but are connected on the AC side.
So I can build a mini grid, just like the real grid. Everything can help each other if online. Or even a stand alone box to sync inverters...

Brings up the question "If" to inverters where turned on at the exact time, and phased properly... would it work???? No smoke.

The inverter generators apparently have a clever hack where they go into a slave mode if they see AC already on the output before they start. @RCinFLA described how it works in a post somewhere.

I can’t see any reason why off-grid inverters couldn’t be designed to work like this. The electronics are pretty much the same. But as far as I know, nobody has done it. Paralleling the AC outputs of two random inverters always results in smoke.

 

[doing it different]

The inverter generators apparently have a clever hack where they go into a slave mode if they see AC already on the output before they start. @RCinFLA described how it works in a post somewhere.

I didn't know this until I read this....
One of my many things to look into and test.

Have to ask him as well what happens if it was connected to an inverter that's up and running... would it help the inverter and increase the capacity... that would be useful, on a mobile application.

 

[ConnerLabs]

I didn't know this until I read this....
One of my many things to look into and test.

I’m not sure I’d count on every single inverter generator having this feature. If only because it would encourage users to make suicide cords with male plugs on both ends, shock themselves with the prongs, and sue.

As far as I know, the units that do support it have dedicated connectors and cables for paralleling where both parts are touch proof.

 

[chilly2]

Based on the immense length of some of the threads here, I'd be happy with one that provided...

- a clear, well laid out manual that is consistent with the device experience.
- an obvious point of contact for downloads (manual, certificates, firmware).
- clear configuration for common use cases e.g. zero export.
- battery cut off and reboot voltages or soc percentages that work in all modes.
- an easily accessible wiring bay, by way of a swing door or clip in mechanism.

 

[Mattb4]

Based on the immense length of some of the threads here, I'd be happy with one that provided...

...

A dedicated Off grid AIO could be a lot easier to deal with since you never worry about the grid side other than bringing in power from a generator. This could have an ability to be auto start based on battery voltages or SOC. No doubt configurations for adding in more AIO's would need clear manual explanations for proper wiring and setup.

But it should be automatic firing squad to use "automatic" in the manual to mean turning something Off by selecting On.

 

[fatjay]

#4 would be handled with chargeverter or battery charger, or even another inverter would probably be cheaper.

 

[Bill Young]

Start a letter writing campaign to the various Chinese manufacturers. Maybe start with @EcoWorthy @ECO-WORTHY Kai @ECO-WORTHY Sunny @ECO-WORTHY-Shelly @ECO-WORTHY Jac @ECO-Worthy B2B Manager since they have a presence here, even though they rebadge, they can put it to their manufacturers...

Thank you for mentioning us here, Joe.

Yes, we pay close attention to all customer feedback and relay it to our R&D department and suppliers, requiring them to respond.

Many ECO-WORTHY products are continuously improved in this way, becoming more tailored to customer needs.

If you have any thoughts or opinions about AIO inverters, please let us know. Your opinions and ideas may very well become a reality in our new product launches.

 

[BarracudaBob]

Multiple MPPT for anything over 6kw it needs to have at least 2 or more separate MPPT

 

[Mattb4]

The double conversion off-grid AIO described above would be pretty popular amongst forum members. The question is how much of a market there would be for it in general.

I could see it having popularity in locations with unstable grid supplies and not just those folks trying to avoid inadvertent export. You see the recommendation all the time to go double conversion. Thus not just NA standard rated models.

My thanks for the input from Mr. Bill Young from Eco-Worthy. Always nice to see companies listening to public comment.