What I'm learning about DIY Enphase and Hoymiles Microinverters

[ncsolarelectric]

When I learned about the IQ8 Microinverters and their ability to run off-grid with "Sunlight Backup", I had to try it. I was going to put in a SolarEdge system in 2020, but due to the plague, it never happened. I installed a backyard ballasted ground mount, using Unirac RM10 racks and CMU blocks. Jinko 400W PERK panels, and Enphase IQ8Plus-72-2-US inverters. Sunlight Backup and Battery Backup with Enphse both require their System Controller 2, which has the split-phase "neutral forming" transformer and the automatic transfer switch. A pricey piece of equipment!
So on Thursday 6/9/22, my system passed the final inspection, and the utility granted PTO the same day. The next morning when I tried to start my system, I couldn't because of these factors that I missed, when I went through the Enphase training. It's in there, but it's confusing. Also a word of warning to DIYers. Enphase's 25 Year Warranty requires that the system be installed by a Certified Enphase Installer. If you don't go through their training, you'll void your warranty.

1. A grid-tied solar system only requires Wifi, but when using the System Controller 2 for either Sunlight or Battery Backup. A cellular modem is required to commission the system. The App will not let me provision the system without a Cell modem. I didn't buy one until yesterday.
2. A Sunlight backup system is required to have 2 Load Controllers. I only have two 20A circuits, so I only bought 1 LC. The App will not let me provision the system without 2 LCs. So I would need to buy something I don't need, to make the system operate. (OUCH!)
3. A Battery backup system does not require the 2 LCs. So rather than waste money on a second LC I don't need, I invested in the IQ Battery 3T which I had intended to do eventually from the beginning. I just didn't expect it to be "required" to commission the system.

The last thing I learned is, that there are new alternative microinverters that are UL Listed, CA Rule 21 approved, and are less than half the price of Enphase. They are very user-friendly for DIYers and practically plug-n-play.

 

[milehighassassin]

Good info here. Disappointing that the warranty is void if you're not a certified installer, that could be a deal breaker

 

[DThames]

There is always a catch! I bought APSystems QS1 inverters and in order to make the production monitoring system work, you have to be an installer. They will not let an individual become an installer. I was able to go back to the vendor and they did the monitor system commissioning for me. I had a long talk with a nice person at APSystems and they just don't want to support DIY no matter how qualified a person might be.

 

[DThames]

"The last thing I learned is, that there are new alternative microinverters that are UL Listed, CA Rule 21 approved, and are less than half the price of Enphase. They are very user-friendly for DIYers and practically plug-n-play." Please share what you learned.

 

[WildLeg]

It’s not hard to get certified at the enphase university.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

It’s not hard to get certified at the enphase university.

The technical aspect of it wasn't that hard for me personally as an experienced engineer, but yeah it takes some time and then some. There are a LOT of trick questions as well, so you need to take some tests twice. I wanted to be certified and I can help others DIY "under me". So if you want to do Enphase and don't want to get certified, gimme a shout. I'll hook you up.

 

[DThames]

When I learned about the IQ8 Microinverters and their ability to run off-grid with "Sunlight Backup", I had to try it. I was going to put in a SolarEdge system in 2020, but due to the plague, it never happened. I installed a backyard ballasted ground mount, using Unirac RM10 racks and CMU blocks. Jinko 400W PERK panels, and Enphase IQ8Plus-72-2-US inverters. Sunlight Backup and Battery Backup with Enphse both require their System Controller 2, which has the split-phase "neutral forming" transformer and the automatic transfer switch. A pricey piece of equipment!
So on Thursday 6/9/22, my system passed the final inspection, and the utility granted PTO the same day. The next morning when I tried to start my system, I couldn't because of these factors that I missed, when I went through the Enphase training. It's in there, but it's confusing. Also a word of warning to DIYers. Enphase's 25 Year Warranty requires that the system be installed by a Certified Enphase Installer. If you don't go through their training, you'll void your warranty.

1. A grid-tied solar system only requires Wifi, but when using the System Controller 2 for either Sunlight or Battery Backup. A cellular modem is required to commission the system. The App will not let me provision the system without a Cell modem. I didn't buy one until yesterday.
2. A Sunlight backup system is required to have 2 Load Controllers. I only have two 20A circuits, so I only bought 1 LC. The App will not let me provision the system without 2 LCs. So I would need to buy something I don't need, to make the system operate. (OUCH!)
3. A Battery backup system does not require the 2 LCs. So rather than waste money on a second LC I don't need, I invested in the IQ Battery 3T which I had intended to do eventually from the beginning. I just didn't expect it to be "required" to commission the system.

The last thing I learned is, that there are new alternative microinverters that are UL Listed, CA Rule 21 approved, and are less than half the price of Enphase. They are very user-friendly for DIYers and practically plug-n-play.

NCSolarElectric,

Can you share about the new lower cost UL listed microinverters?

 

[CNuthing]

DThames,

You may be able to narrow down which microinverters he means by going to the CPUC website, downloading the list of currently approved inverters, then click 'yes' on the microinverter column, filtering your results. Doing this I see Altenergy Power System Inc, Chilicon Power, Enphase, Hoymiles Power Electronics, LeadSolar, LG Electronics, Northern Electric & Power, Sparq, TSUNESS Co.

Hope this helps. Also you can download the other equipment lists to get California approved ESS and battery equipment.

Edit : Also if you go to his website, it looks like they are using the Northern Electric & Power microinverters.

Edit 2: It looks like the BDM-800 is the only model on the CPUC list of approved equipment, however all their other models appear to be UL1741 listed.

 

[svetz]

...which has the split-phase "neutral forming" transformer and the automatic transfer switch. A pricey piece of equipment!...

But it's also really good. I've see others finally throw in the towel and add-on an NFT and then complain about the cost and loss of efficiency. It's bigger than a lot of stand-alone inverters, but well worth it in my opinion. Oh, it also has the generator input... nice especially if it's overcast and you need to recharge.

So on Thursday 6/9/22, my system passed the final inspection, and the utility granted PTO the same day.

Congratulations!

... Enphase's 25 Year Warranty requires that the system be installed by a Certified Enphase Installer. If you don't go through their training, you'll void your warranty.

It’s not hard to get certified at the enphase university.

Doesn't take all that long either, and as ncsolarelectric said, not hard but tricky questions. Very useful IMO if you're doing your own install.

The last thing I learned is, that there are new alternative microinverters that are UL Listed, CA Rule 21 approved, and are less than half the price of Enphase. They are very user-friendly for DIYers and practically plug-n-play.

Not so sure about the "practically" plug-n-play although I'm sure the other vendors would like you to believe they can autoconfigure for every possible scenario out there. The grass is always greener, for example:

...I had a long talk with a nice person at APSystems and they just don't want to support DIY no matter how qualified a person might be....

Enphase has excellent technical support (not via email, but telephone), something I rarely see others say about their vendors. That said, can't wait for someone to post about their Sol-Ark microinverter experience with installation and monitoring.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Update 6/18/22: After buying and installing my Enphase IQ Battery 3T, and a Cell Modem. I finally got past that step in the Installer Toolkit App. Only to be stopped by a message saying that I am not certified to install an Encharge system. The final step in certification is flying to TX or FL to get hands-on training. Or else, I call another Enphase installer and get commissioned under "their" account. Stay tuned... In the meantime, there is lots of sun shining on the panels that I CAN'T USE!

 

[ncsolarelectric]

DThames,

You may be able to narrow down which microinverters he means by going to the CPUC website, downloading the list of currently approved inverters, then click 'yes' on the microinverter column, filtering your results. Doing this I see Altenergy Power System Inc, Chilicon Power, Enphase, Hoymiles Power Electronics, LeadSolar, LG Electronics, Northern Electric & Power, Sparq, TSUNESS Co.

Hope this helps. Also you can download the other equipment lists to get California approved ESS and battery equipment.

Edit : Also if you go to his website, it looks like they are using the Northern Electric & Power microinverters.

Edit 2: It looks like the BDM-800 is the only model on the CPUC list of approved equipment, however all their other models appear to be UL1741 listed.

I can get NEP Inverters, but the only one available right now is the BDM-600X. It's a great inverter and NEP is a good company. I've known their CEO, Ed H. for a long time since he was a VP at Advanced Energy and I was a VP at Cenergy Power. However, it takes a looooonnnngass time to get UL listing on new products and get them into production at the kind of volumes required. (Cybertruck cough, cough) I intend to become an authorized dealer for NEP, just as I am for AIMS Power and now Hoymiles.

On the other hand, I found out that Hoymiles is Listed for use in the US through CSA, and bears the cUS mark, which is equivalent to a UL Listing. They are approved for use in all of North America. I contacted them and I'm soon to be an authorized dealer for Hoymiles inverters and DTUs. Their inverters are the "secret sauce" I was referring to. Where I live in Statesville, NC. The cost of energy is only 7.7 cents per kWh under EnergyUnited Coop. It's nearly impossible to make Enphase pencil here, and most of the big-name installers don't even promote them here because their costs are too high. Payback time is in the 20-30 year range unless they're exaggerating future rate increases.

With Hoymiles, I've got my dealer cost for a complete kit with racking and panels to about $1/Watt DC. So a DIYer in my neighborhood, he/she can do an installation and come out with under a 10-year payback. This is HUGE LOL! In places with high energy costs, the ROI is like what, 2 years? And, you don't need to jump through hoops and get a "certified installer" to turn on the inverters.

I'm sure I'll love my Enphase system once I get it up and running. I only regret spending so much time and money on Enphse when now I see I could've done it for less than half the cost. The bright side is, that y'all can learn from my mistakes and get grid-tied for half the price. Just LMK what you want, I'm an engineer and I'm here to help and learn something new every day.

Todd

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Another sunny day was lost. I spoke to Enphsae today. It seems that I don't need to go to hands-on training after all. Yeah! But, I need to submit a design review of my single line. I already finished all of the Installer Certification training courses including storage. However, I can't submit a design review! First, I need to pass their Storage "Design" Certification course. A 4th certification is still required to turn on my system. AFTER another 2+ hours of courses, then I have to submit a design review and wait for their approval before I can proceed to turn on my system. If anyone ever suggests using Enphase to me again, I may explode. They own the system, not me. I have no control and someday, maybe they will allow me to operate the $12k solar system I purchased.

 

[LithiumCanuck]

The last thing I learned is, that there are new alternative microinverters that are UL Listed, CA Rule 21 approved, and are less than half the price of Enphase. They are very user-friendly for DIYers and practically plug-n-play.

Please share that info…

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Please share that info…

I did, above. Hoymiles 350W, 700W, 1500W are plug-n-play grid-tied inverters and I've become a rep for the central east coast if you need any. PM me. Thanks.

 

[Bluedog225]

Thanks for so the great info. I wasted many hours on the Enphase option. Hope you get it up and going.

Like others, I would like to know more about the Hoymiles options. Not ready to go all in yet. But hearing about a couple of successful installs works be great.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Thanks for so the great info. I wasted many hours on the Enphase option. Hope you get it up and going.

Like others, I would like to know more about the Hoymiles options. Not ready to go all in yet. But hearing about a couple of successful installs works be great.

Here is one I found, and I chatted with him. He couldn't be happier.

My DIY solar WI

In my experience, when the Chinese entered the utility-scale / Commercial string inverter market, they changed the game because their service was better and their pricing blew everyone else out of the water. American manufacturers were private labeling these products just like EG4 is doing now because they are good, reliable products that have been around for years in the Chinese market. They are only "new" in the US.

Given that Hoymiles stands behind their microinverters with a good warranty that is not full of loopholes like Enphase, they have low prices, no hassles (so far) and they don't discourage DIY, I'm very happy to offer them to my customers. I'll stand behind them too, and I'm going to stock them here in NC. As a customer, you could literally install twice as many for the same or lower cost. I'm not trying to build a multi-billion dollar corporation like Enphase. It's just me, in semi-retirement, trying to help people here in the south save money, where energy prices are either already lower than the national average, or utilities do not have good NET Metering programs. That's why I say, I'm just here to help and if I can sell a kit or two once in a while, it helps me out greatly.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

I finished the Enphase certification training for Storage Design and submitted my design for review. That's the final step. Today, they sent me comments like an AHJ and I had to update the single-line diagram and resend it. Beware of NEC 710.15 if you're doing a stand-alone storage system. It seems I need to replace my sub-panel with a Din-Rail panel, so I can use 6A circuit breakers. The limit of the IQ Battery 3T is 5.3A, so the largest load "breaker" in the sub-panel can't exceed 5.3A x 1.25 = 6.63A. My panel has all 20A breakers and the smallest Eaton BR type breaker is 10A, so I can't use this sub-panel with an IQ Battery 3T. I need at least an IQ Battery 10T, which I can't afford right now.

This is where I sit, waiting for them to approve the design and allow me to energize it, and I'm shopping for a breaker box.

Those of you who think you do not need a permit for an off-grid system, need to read 710.15. If there are codes to be met, a permit and an inspection are required, as well as several load calculations to show that the loads comply. This is true even if there is no connection to the grid, but there is a connection to your home's wiring from a stand-alone source. That is fair game and under the AHJ. The only time a permit is not required is when the appliance (inverter) has a line cord and is plugged into a receptacle, and the output has receptacles for plugging in the loads. Plugs, cords, and receptacles do not require a permit. It could be a 50A receptacle!

 

[el-guapin]

I finished the Enphase certification training for Storage Design and submitted my design for review. That's the final step.........

Congrats!!.. I too got certified a few months back. They reviewed and approved my design within two days so you should be hearing from then soon.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Yup. I received approval and final certification this morning. Yay!
I also learned that they use an inaccurate rule of thumb regarding NEC 2017, 710.15(A). They said regarding my SLD that the ESS must provide less than or equal to the largest circuit breaker in the backup sub-panel. That is not what the code says. The code says, that the capacity of the ESS "...shall be equal to or greater than the load posed by the largest single utilization equipment connected to the system." It is clear throughout the code book that "utilization equipment" is referring to the actual loads themselves and not the size of the circuit breakers in the panel. Clearly, such a restriction would be unreasonable considering Eaton, SQD, GE do not make AFCI breakers of values less than 15A, or breakers less than 10A in general. The wiring must be sized appropriately for the breaker, but the breaker value is not what NEC 710.15 is looking for. They almost had me convinced I was screwed using an IQ Battery 3T, because I can't get 6A breakers! Thankfully, I verified exactly what the code says and I'm good with my breaker ratings as long as my loads don't pull more than 5.33A continuous, or 6.33 surge at 240V.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Of course today, it's not sunny. LOL!