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What is the next big Battery breakthrough you are waiting for?

burgerking

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I am waiting for Sodium batteries.
But may not be cheap at release. However, if manufacturing process is same with LiFePo4, price will go down fast.

How about you?
 
I am not waiting on anything. When something better arrives I will evaluate it and use it if it makes sense for my projects.

When I first got into this I got excited about all the 'breakthrough' announcements about battery technologies that are going to revolutionize the industry. Flow batteries, Solid State batteries, pure lithium or pure silicone anodes...... the list is endless. It did not take long for me to realize that there are no 'revolutionary' new batteries....just incrementally better batteries. After many years we are just now seeing a few solid state batteries sold commercially.... and they are only incrementally better than existing products in a few attributes. Will they get better over time? Probably. Will they replace LiFePo4 for the things I do with batteries? Maybe but we are at least 3 years away from that even being an option for me.

Sodium has a lot of promise....but they are even further behind solid-state batteries.... When/if they ever become available, I will use them if they make sense.

Don't get me wrong. I hope new and better batteries come out. We need them...., particularly for grid-level storage. I don't think we will ever get anywhere close to a green grid without dramatic improvements to battery technology and cost. However, I am a realist and I have learned not to get excited about possible future batteries.... I just wait and take advantage of whatever improved battery comes out.
 
Lithium Sulfur will be the next big thing. Half the weight and.. wait for it.. eight (8) times the energy density.

There are actually quite a few lithium battery chemistries out there that are better than what we have now. Some are far better but cost too much to make, some are far better but are too difficult to manufacture, and a lot of them are just slightly better, maybe 25 to 30 percent, but they would require re-tooling of the factories that currently make batteries.. the billion dollar investment just isn't worth getting the extra 25%.

Lithium Sulfur is another animal. Its actually cheaper to make than current lithium ion, does away with the rare cobalt, and I think the nickel too, weighs only about half as much, and has far higher energy density.

Lithium Sulfur has been known for three decades, but the battery would only last for about 10 or 20 cycles before the anode (or cathode?) would destroy itself by being coated with an undesirable side reaction. Over the last twenty or so years, with chemistry tweaks and design changes, they've been able to get them into the 100 cycle range. Far better than the original, but still not enough to market for the tech we use.

Then, sometime (last year?), the boys and girls at Drexel University were screwing with the design and trying some new stuff. One of their experiments had an unexpected result. The technique they were using had unintentionally created a form of sulfur called " mono-something gamma phase sufur bla bla bla" Anyhow, long story short, they cycled the new chemistry 4000 times with no detectable degradation, and it can be manufactured on existing equipment.

The secret was in the gamma phase sulfur. They didn't mean to put it there, it created itself due to the technique they used to making the battery. As it was explained, they used a method of vapor deposition that isn't normal, and this strange technique had the side effect of turning their sulfur compounds into this gamma phase thing.

Five to six years out. The gamma-phase sulfur has them baffled and they're trying to get a better understanding of why its happening.

Imagine an EV with a 250 mile range now having a 2000 mile range, or a drone with a 40 minute flight time clocking in an entire afternoon, or a cell phone you only have to charge once a week.. and at less than half the cost.
 
Imagine an EV with a 250 mile range now having a 2000 mile range, or a drone with a 40 minute flight time clocking in an entire afternoon, or a cell phone you only have to charge once a week.. and at less than half the cost.

That would be an earth shattering revolutionary change. I'll need to sell my Nissan Leaf just before that happens.
 
That would be an earth shattering revolutionary change. I'll need to sell my Nissan Leaf just before that happens.
Yeah it would be, although I wouldn't hold your breath for it. By the time those batteries are available to consumers in EV's, your Nissan Leaf will probably have been crushed into cube and headed for a furnace.

Putting new battery technology into an EV is a risky proposition. They'll need to put them in drones, phones, laptops, etc first.. then wait five or ten more years to see what problems arise. Recalling a consumer tech toy battery and having to replace it with a standard lithium ion cell has a lot less liability than a $40,000 car.

When these batteries start making it into industrial fork trucks, golf carts, and other applications with the larger capacities, only then will the auto folks start considering them as mass market performance data will start to become available.

It takes a boat load of money to set up just one production line.
 
Yeah it would be, although I wouldn't hold your breath for it. By the time those batteries are available to consumers in EV's, your Nissan Leaf will probably have been crushed into cube and headed for a furnace.

Putting new battery technology into an EV is a risky proposition. They'll need to put them in drones, phones, laptops, etc first.. then wait five or ten more years to see what problems arise. Recalling a consumer tech toy battery and having to replace it with a standard lithium ion cell has a lot less liability than a $40,000 car.

When these batteries start making it into industrial fork trucks, golf carts, and other applications with the larger capacities, only then will the auto folks start considering them as mass market performance data will start to become available.

It takes a boat load of money to set up just one production line.
I agree....It will be a long time before we see them in cars. However, I am not sure the auto industry is going to 'wait' for other industries to deploy them and see how they work. Cell availability is the number one thing limiting EV sales and right now, *all* EV manufacturers are desperate for cells (Even Tesla). This is going to translate into a willingness to try new chemistries sooner. This will be particularly true for start-up EV companies, but even the established old-school ICE companies will jump in as soon as the pricing and availability allow.

Pricing and availability is why you might see some of these new chemistries elsewhere first.... With an EV, there are so many cells that price and availability is critical. With a toy drone... not so much.
 
I agree....It will be a long time before we see them in cars. However, I am not sure the auto industry is going to 'wait' for other industries to deploy them and see how they work. Cell availability is the number one thing limiting EV sales and right now, *all* EV manufacturers are desperate for cells (Even Tesla). This is going to translate into a willingness to try new chemistries sooner. This will be particularly true for start-up EV companies, but even the established old-school ICE companies will jump in as soon as the pricing and availability allow.

Pricing and availability is why you might see some of these new chemistries elsewhere first.... With an EV, there are so many cells that price and availability is critical. With a toy drone... not so much.
Good point. I was thinking about how things normally work, not the emergency measures desperation creates.
 
Going back two more movies, did I recently read somewhere that they have developed transparant aluminum? I believe I did.
Anyway in the late 80s before such things were popular i attended a trekkie convention and james doohan was the keynote speaker, his monologue went about 90 minutes and was very entertaining. He was a master of accents and different characters. My friend bought a signed picture of jonathan harris with the robot for only $800 (joke, I think it was 40)
 
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