diy solar

diy solar

What is this Setup Called?

pumping with the bike pump until it got up to it's usual 25-30psi range according to the pressure gauge.
If 25 -30 psi is your normal water pressure, then with the pump off and the system pressure less your air pressure suppose to be the half of that to give the water a place to go when pumping to 25-30 psi.
If all is correct then when pressure is 25-30 then your pressure vessel is half filled with water and air
 
We were Okay for a while until this week. I noticed the pump starting to cycle more frequently, and finally yesterday it started rapid cycling whenever someone opened a tap. We turned off the pump's circuit breaker, opened the taps and drained off the water in the system with our bike pump. Then we closed all taps and kept pumping with the bike pump until it got up to it's usual 25-30psi range according to the pressure gauge.

Long story short, this didn't work, and now the pressure gauge immediately drops to zero as soon as someone opens a tap, causing the pump to run immediately. Also the pressure gauge is doing something weird. After we close the tap and the pump shuts itself off, the needle on the pressure gauge continues to climb from about 1.5 bars to 2 bars before settling slightly below 2 bars.

I decided to just keep the circuit breaker off last night until I can get a clue as to what's going on. At one point last night I forgot that the circuit breaker was off, and I opened the tap in the bathroom. Barely a trickle came out, and immediately dried up. Today the pressure gauge reads a flat 0 psi. The tank sounds a little hollow...maybe...not too sure about that one.
Seems like the internal bladder ruptured. Can you hear water sloshing around in it when it's empty and the gauge is reading zero?
 
Seems like the internal bladder ruptured. Can you hear water sloshing around in it when it's empty and the gauge is reading zero?
I just went and rocked the installation back and forth a few times. The gauge reads zero. Haven't turned the electricity on since the other night. I could not hear any hint of water sloshing around in the pressure tank.

Is the internal bladder to hold the air or to hold the water?

I'm going to the store tomorrow to buy another pressure gauge (maybe a tire gauge) to stick on the shraeder valve on top of the tank in order to see if the installation's pressure gauge is still accurate.
 
MOST bladders hold the air. Trun pump on let it build up. Push the Schraider in if water comes out probably ruptured bladder. Schraiders can leak air after checking pressure or adding air check for leaks with liquid soap or spit.
With no water pressure the air pressure should be 5 psi lower than your lowest operating pressure.
 
MOST bladders hold the air. Trun pump on let it build up. Push the Schraider in if water comes out probably ruptured bladder. Schraiders can leak air after checking pressure or adding air check for leaks with liquid soap or spit.
With no water pressure the air pressure should be 5 psi lower than your lowest operating pressure.
Yeah, the other night we pushed in the schraeder. no moisture came out. I didn' do the soapy water test, but I otherwise couldn't hear or feel any air leaking.

I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence.

My best amateur guess is that the pressure gauge is no longer accurate, and the pressure regulator has either failed or needs to be re-calibrated.
The system may just need to be re-calibrated with the nuts and springs of the pressure regulator. It sucks living so far away from where the hardware is sold. I'll have to make one trip to town just to get another pressure gauge, and then another trip another day if there is something else wrong.

How can you tell for sure if the bladder is ruptured? That seemed to be what people originally thought, but then we used the bike pump and things were as good as new for a few months.
 
.

How can you tell for sure if the bladder is ruptured? That seemed to be what people originally thought, but then we used the bike pump and things were as good as new for a few months.
I was able to tell my bladder was ruptured by frequent cycling of the pump and pressure variances. Once I got it disconnected I could hear water sloshing around in it and it was heavy. I replaced it with a pressure tank twice the size to cut down on the pump cycles.
 
Yeah, the other night we pushed in the schraeder. no moisture came out. I didn' do the soapy water test, but I otherwise couldn't hear or feel any air leaking.
That's a good sign, there may be a slow leak in the system but it's not the end of the world for now.
With no water pressure the air pressure should be 5 psi lower than your lowest operating pressure.
I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence.
Your pump is controlled by a pressure switch, correct? When that pressure switch gets down to X-psi it turns on the pump. The pressure tank when empty and just sitting there should X-5psi on the bladder.

As an example, my pump at camp kicks on at 45psi, so my pressure tanks when empty have 40psi on the bladder. If that ever gets low I just pump it up with the bike pump.

My best amateur guess is that the pressure gauge is no longer accurate, and the pressure regulator has either failed or needs to be re-calibrated.
The system may just need to be re-calibrated with the nuts and springs of the pressure regulator. It sucks living so far away from where the hardware is sold. I'll have to make one trip to town just to get another pressure gauge, and then another trip another day if there is something else wrong.
Can you jury-rig a connection from the bicycle pump to the pressure gauge and give it a couple pumps? That'll tell you if the gauge is working. Likewise the same fitting to the pressure switch and you should be able to watch the little contacts in the switch click over when pressure is reached and click back when it's bled off.

Even if the gauge is inaccurate the pressure switch is the important one. Some WD40/spray cleaner and running the adjustment screw in and out a few times might loosen that all up and get it working again. Just remember to count your turns on the screw so you can get it back to the same setting again.

How can you tell for sure if the bladder is ruptured? That seemed to be what people originally thought, but then we used the bike pump and things were as good as new for a few months.
If your bladder is ruptured the easiest way to tell is to let the system pump up and poke the Schrader valve on the top. If it squirts at you there's water in the bladder.

Thing is that even if the bladder is ruptured a pressure tank will still work. As long as there's an air bubble in the top of the tank it's still doing its job. Many cheaper and older tanks were bladderless and even modern ships hydrophores (nautical term for pressure tank) don't have bladders in them.

99.999% of the time, if your pump is short cycling it's because there's no air bubble in the pressure tank and it's just compressing against the hard steel instead of the soft air bubble. That or the cut-in (turn the pump on) pressure and the cut-out (turn the pump off) pressures are too close together. For reference my system at camp turns on at 45psi and cuts off at about 60psi. If your switch is too far out of whack and going from 35psi to 38psi it's just constantly going to cycle.

If I were to drive the hour each way from my camp to the hardware store for anything it would be the pressure switch. Maybe grab a gauge while I'm already there. The tank can be mitigated with a bicycle pump.
 
I just went and rocked the installation back and forth a few times. The gauge reads zero. Haven't turned the electricity on since the other night. I could not hear any hint of water sloshing around in the pressure tank.

Is the internal bladder to hold the air or to hold the water?

I'm going to the store tomorrow to buy another pressure gauge (maybe a tire gauge) to stick on the shraeder valve on top of the tank in order to see if the installation's pressure gauge is still accurate.
All bladders I have seen hold the air.
You want to use the tire gauge on the Schrader valve to check air pressure when there is no water in the tank. The air pressure will be different from the water pressure.
 
The bladder or or the schraider is leaking if the air pressure is low again. You can watch YouTube about adjusting the spring but you will need a reliable gauge.
Last sentence
If your pump starts at say 25 psi the bladder air pressure with 0 psi water should be 20 psi. If you get the air pressure to high the water won’t fill the tank to capacity. If you get way too much air pressure no water will go into it. Too little air pressure and frequent pump cycles.
 
I got the popcorn where is the video?
Apparently .mp4 isn't supported, but you can waste a few minutes uploading before you get the error. ? It was just me rocking a pressure tank and you could hear the water sloshing
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20220706-223903.jpg
    Screenshot_20220706-223903.jpg
    121.4 KB · Views: 1
That's a good sign, there may be a slow leak in the system but it's not the end of the world for now.


Your pump is controlled by a pressure switch, correct? When that pressure switch gets down to X-psi it turns on the pump. The pressure tank when empty and just sitting there should X-5psi on the bladder.

As an example, my pump at camp kicks on at 45psi, so my pressure tanks when empty have 40psi on the bladder. If that ever gets low I just pump it up with the bike pump.


Can you jury-rig a connection from the bicycle pump to the pressure gauge and give it a couple pumps? That'll tell you if the gauge is working. Likewise the same fitting to the pressure switch and you should be able to watch the little contacts in the switch click over when pressure is reached and click back when it's bled off.

Even if the gauge is inaccurate the pressure switch is the important one. Some WD40/spray cleaner and running the adjustment screw in and out a few times might loosen that all up and get it working again. Just remember to count your turns on the screw so you can get it back to the same setting again.


If your bladder is ruptured the easiest way to tell is to let the system pump up and poke the Schrader valve on the top. If it squirts at you there's water in the bladder.

Thing is that even if the bladder is ruptured a pressure tank will still work. As long as there's an air bubble in the top of the tank it's still doing its job. Many cheaper and older tanks were bladderless and even modern ships hydrophores (nautical term for pressure tank) don't have bladders in them.

99.999% of the time, if your pump is short cycling it's because there's no air bubble in the pressure tank and it's just compressing against the hard steel instead of the soft air bubble. That or the cut-in (turn the pump on) pressure and the cut-out (turn the pump off) pressures are too close together. For reference my system at camp turns on at 45psi and cuts off at about 60psi. If your switch is too far out of whack and going from 35psi to 38psi it's just constantly going to cycle.

If I were to drive the hour each way from my camp to the hardware store for anything it would be the pressure switch. Maybe grab a gauge while I'm already there. The tank can be mitigated with a bicycle pump.
Thanks for all this. Lots to consider. Maybe it is just compressing against the hard steel, because when we first started trying to fix it, the bike pump moved the pressure needle and we were able to pump it up, but then later when we were trying again, we could not get the bike pump to move the needle at all, and it was extremely difficult to pump (I had to put all my weight on the bike pump).

Can I put a car/truck tire pressure gauge on the shraeder valve and check the psi of the tank that way?
 
Yes you can. Water pressure needs to be at 0 psi.
when we first started trying to fix it, the bike pump moved the pressure needle and we were able to pump it up, but then later when we were trying again, we could not get the bike pump to move the needle at all, and it was extremely difficult to pump
Water doesn’t compress. So I’d start with turning off the pump and depressurizing the system a little bit. Then pump it up with the bicycle pump and see if the needle moves. The hand pump will take a long time because the volume of each stroke is small and will take quite a few pumps. It would be handy if you could borrow a small low-volume electric pump or an air tank for filling tires - you don’t want 80psi or something on the water system so a big compressor isn’t required, maybe undesirable. But a 5- or 10-gallon air tank would work.
 
The other day I watched your video on getting ripped off by the well guy. Are you trying to pump from that well with the system you are currently having issues with? What kind of pump are you using? What is the well diameter and depth? Where is your check valve?
 
The other day I watched your video on getting ripped off by the well guy. Are you trying to pump from that well with the system you are currently having issues with? What kind of pump are you using? What is the well diameter and depth? Where is your check valve?
No. That's a different system.
 
The local store had one of these for sale, but I wasn't sure it would be a good idea to use one.
HIDROMATICH1NEW-500x500.jpg


Supposedly it replaces the need for the pressure tank? I don't really get how it would do that.
 
Back
Top