What makes the tier 1 stuff “better”?

[Nan_wpg]

It was good for a manufacturer to share some of the staffing challenges they are going through.

My mechanics shop is having difficulty finding another mechanic who wants to work.

A tire shop I went to this week is understaffed due to difficulty finding workers.

Last night I walked into a restaurant which posted an apology sign because 5 employees decided not to come to work.

A family member is an assistant manager for a fast food restaurant. They continue to have difficulty finding employees who want to report to work as scheduled.

As I write this a manager for a dining facility stated they just can not retain workers even though they are the highest paying in the area.

Many of us grew up with a strong work ethic. However that does not appear to be the norm in today’s world. I fully support made in USA. However unless companies are fully staffed at a reasonable price it will probably become more and more difficult to find these products.

I’m in Canada. We had Covid lockdowns and restaurant employees were deemed second class people and told to stay home. Many of those people decided to find ‘“essential” employment. It didn’t help that our government paid people to stay at home.

I can’t say I blame the workers. I’d never go back to an industry that could be shut down like that.

but yes, overall the youngins seem to not want to work, and those that do want “easy” jobs (non physical ) or would rather stay at home to smoke pot and play video games all day. (Canada legalized pot so that makes it easy to be bored).

 

[Nan_wpg]

I live off-grid, quite rural & remote and the "grid" is over $75,000 away and staying put where it is.
I decided to go fully solar quite early on, immediately upon seeing the "on grid" quite from Big Power...
Being Ex Military & a retired IT Engineer, I knew the only way for me to go was to use Tier-1 equipment right from the start which led to my installing Midnite Classic SCC & at first I installed a Yiyen Inverter/Charger (budget issues) which I upgraded to a Samlex EVO within a year. Where I live, the conditions can be quite extreme and I had to have something that I could rely on because quite literally my life depends on a reliable system, half assed measures are simply not an option. I go to sleep every night knowing I'm good and don't have to worry.

I have never had any hardware issues with the Midnite Gear at all, and I use their MNDC E-Panels, Breakers, SPD's etc.... It's wonderfully solid equipment, I've been "inside" there and can easily identify the high quality componentry used, high quality PCB work and even looking at the soldering it's easy to tell it's all made really well to a high spec. I'm now adding another classic (150) which only needs 6x 395W Q-Cells to give me 94A charge amps. Running 24V btw.

My Samlex EVO is also extremely rock solid, I did have one electrical fault that resulted in a failure. They put a replacement unit on a plane and I had it within a couple of days. After they ripped apart the Inverter that faulted the problem was discovered and it was truly a "fluke" situation and they still took extra time to ensure such a fluke would not happen again with production models, even though it was a fluke. I've been into the Inverter guts as well and like Midnite, the componentry and assembly are very high spec... Again this is a Tier-1 Product.

Both Samlex & Midnite have excellent "professional" support and do very well across the board. Even so, there are always a few "sad sacks" who will never be happy for whatever reason (such is life).

If only we could get a BMS Manufacturer that could do the same at a respectable price.

I also want to add that there is an Ironic Funny in a sense (not for the victims of course)
As I stated above, I will be soon installing another Midnite Classic in parallel with my existing C-200. The C-150 will give me 94A from SIX 395 Panels 2S3P, yet people here are running at AIO's and buying a crap load more panels to get similar charge rates thereby negating savings... I got my new C-150 for under $700 USD and my panels (Q-Cells) for a very respectable price as well. Some folks (too many) forget how to use a Calculator and to consider their long term costs.

Midnite Solar CLASSIC 150 MPPT Charge Controller from Stellavolta on Amazon.com $669.98 USD

im leaning toward a lfp battery (rack) and Morningstar inverter and cc. I do have my eye on the samlex evo 4048 inverter charger. It even has a cc input. It’d be a nice clean instal. It sounds like you’re totally happy with samlex?

 

[Steve_S]

im leaning toward a lfp battery (rack) and Morningstar inverter and cc. I do have my eye on the samlex evo 4048 inverter charger. It even has a cc input. It’d be a nice clean instal. It sounds like you’re totally happy with samlex?

The Samlex is an excellent product and yes, I am happy with it.
They have not made their ModBus & CanBus protocol stacks publicly available and there is no software / app to connect to them for management or monitoring. THAT is really a downer.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

(Canada legalized pot so that makes it easy to be bored).

? …which begs the question: are they bored and turn to getting high, or did getting high create a self-inflicted boredom? LOL
In my opinion either are cultural tragedies.
(the neurology of marijuana use and relevant psychology are pretty interesting scientifically. I have enough trouble without adding cannabis products to the mix. Changing behavior offers more benefits and zero ancillary risk(s). My opinion)

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Might as well open the hood of that MidniteSolar back panel behind the Outback 24V 3500W inverter:



Know that this is 15 years ago installed, before I replaced the lightning arrestors with MidniteSolar SPD’s. Two screws and front cover (behind inverter) swings open for access.

 

[Nan_wpg]

? …which begs the question: are they bored and turn to getting high, or did getting high create a self-inflicted boredom? LOL
In my opinion either are cultural tragedies.
(the neurology of marijuana use and relevant psychology are pretty interesting scientifically. I have enough trouble without adding cannabis products to the mix. Changing behavior offers more benefits and zero ancillary risk(s). My opinion)

It’s a tragedy for sure. Our meth problems increased 1000x since legalized pot. There’s also an epidemic of 30-40 year old unemployed men living in moms basement smoking pot and playing video games.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Might as well open the hood of that MidniteSolar back panel behind the Outback 24V 3500W inverter:

View attachment 128933

Know that this is 15 years ago installed, before I replaced the lightning arrestors with MidniteSolar SPD’s. Two screws and front cover (behind inverter) swings open for access.

did magnum have their panels when you bought this? If so why did you choose midnite?
was just looking at midnites prewired samlex panels. Seems about 1300 more than the sum of the parts??

but I like it. An AIO but tier one components. Nice clean install. Just add cc.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

It’s a tragedy for sure. Our meth problems increased 1000x since legalized pot. There’s also an epidemic of 30-40 year old unemployed men living in moms basement smoking pot and playing video games.

Cuz it’s medicinal. And good for your health.

 

[littleharbor2]

Personal choices we make. nobody's being forced to do these drugs. Addiction, otoh is so so distructive and sad for what it can do to people but again chose to get clean and stay that way.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Personal choices we make. nobody's being forced to do these drugs. Addiction, otoh is so so distructive and sad for what it can do to people but again chose to get clean and stay that way.

Very true. The recidivism rate is often mentioned but I know some people…situations…and was a buildings manager guy at a mental healthy facility and saw a lot of stuff.
Basically 100% of people who change their behaviors, habits, and associates get clean and stay that way. Most people quit, do detox, get straightened out, and keep doing what they’ve always done and they’re messed up within a few weeks to a few months later again. It’s sad as you say, but our world has evolved away from personal responsibility to a blaming/victim/illness culture that tells people they can’t change or aren’t ‘allowed’ to change.
While that’s a simplistic overview, I know, it is at its core the essential truth. I wouldn’t believe it myself but I know a surprising number of individuals who went from passed out under their car and starving, stealing, and screwed up every day to living cleaned up for 10 years, 25 years…

I think it’s a fixable cultural problem but “we” aren’t helping people fix it. Imho

Cuz it’s medicinal. And good for your health.

and then we have this kind of bunk and “doctors” that claim people used to live to a biblical old age from doing cannabis with no scientific basis whatsoever, and claim cannabis does not cause this:

Our meth problems increased 1000x since legalized pot

 

[jamiegreen]

Very true. The recidivism rate is often mentioned but I know some people…situations…and was a buildings manager guy at a mental healthy facility and saw a lot of stuff.
Basically 100% of people who change their behaviors, habits, and associates get clean and stay that way. Most people quit, do detox, get straightened out, and keep doing what they’ve always done and they’re messed up within a few weeks to a few months later again. It’s sad as you say, but our world has evolved away from personal responsibility to a blaming/victim/illness culture that tells people they can’t change or aren’t ‘allowed’ to change.
While that’s a simplistic overview, I know, it is at its core the essential truth. I wouldn’t believe it myself but I know a surprising number of individuals who went from passed out under their car and starving, stealing, and screwed up every day to living cleaned up for 10 years, 25 years…

I think it’s a fixable cultural problem but “we” aren’t helping people fix it. Imho

and then we have this kind of bunk and “doctors” that claim people used to live to a biblical old age from doing cannabis with no scientific basis whatsoever, and claim cannabis does not cause this:

I'm a little torn on this subject. In most cases I believe the least laws and rules the better, it makes for smarter people who have to think for themselves and make decisions that will have the least negative impact on their lives without being legally forced to do so. I do feel there is a slight misconception that everyone who likes to use cannabis is a lazy jobless layabout living with his/her parents.. would you say that someone who enjoys a few beers on the weekend is a violent person who beats his wife?

But don't get me wrong, I know there are those kind of drug users out there. The same as alcohol it comes down to moderation, not that I've smoked anything in a good few years but back then maybe I'd enjoy it on the weekend and then continue my working life as usual.. its when these things start creeping into the weekdays and more frequent issues seem to arise.

At the same time though no ones wants to see hard drug users out on the street, there's been conflicting studies about whether legalisation and relocating funds has any positive impact, some countries its worked to an extent, some in the US have failed miserably... like those mobile drug clinics that were a "safe space" for drug users to shoot up.. great idea Biden!

I think this cannibis leading to meth deal must be something a little deeper than what it seems.. I don't know.. who smokes and then thinks "yea lets do harder drugs!" must be some more underlying mental health issues there. But then again mental health issues are cool now and we shouldn't try to fix them.. right.

Probably straying a bit far off topic here, sorry!

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

I think this cannibis leading to meth deal must be something a little deeper than what it seems.. I don't know.. who smokes and then thinks "yea lets do harder drugs!" must be some more underlying mental health issues there. But then again mental health issues are cool now and we shouldn't try to fix them.. right.

Probably straying a bit far off topic here, sorry!

I'm sure that all of this blatant drug use does have at least some impact on the state of manufacturing and general laziness in the US.

boB

 

[MrM1]

I'm sure that all of this blatant drug use does have at least some impact on the state of manufacturing and general laziness in the US.

boB

No way. "Come On Man!" ?

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

No way. "Come On Man!" ?

OK then. Smoke 'em if you got 'em !

 

[12VoltInstalls]

do feel there is a slight misconception that everyone who likes to use cannabis is a lazy jobless layabout living with his/her parents.. would you say that someone who enjoys a few beers on the weekend is a violent person who beats his wife

No.
Nevertheless, the statistical demographics and sociology are what I believe. And there’s data that shows the consequences of marijuana use, alcohol use, and ‘abuse’ of same two… substances. The contribution of each to less desirous behavior is inarguable. Does it happen to everyone? No. But compared to others who are not users or drinkers in the same demographic, alcohol and marijuana use correlate to definite negative behavior patterns that are not present to the same degree in the ‘sober’ population.
Alcohol use alone has weird things associated with it: like here in Vermont nearly all boating accidents are alcohol related. And the neurology of cbd alone- never mind thc- if used somewhat regularly has some alarming longer-term issues associated with it.
But I don’t know if people care; we’re the most obese population on the planet and they don’t care about those health effects- some of which are more assured to create major health issues than even tobacco use.

Alcohol consumption and drug use are a major cultural problem. “We” have created it, and it thrives to a degree heretofore mostly not occurring in the last four centuries.

 

[jamiegreen]

I'm sure that all of this blatant drug use does have at least some impact on the state of manufacturing and general laziness in the US.

boB

Possibly, and maybe their gender studies degree and $40 an hour expectations are not helping them.. or the industry

But I don’t know if people care; we’re the most obese population on the planet and they don’t care about those health effects- some of which are more assured to create major health issues than even tobacco use.

Well.. I'm over the other side of the pond.. but we aren't far behind with the obesity. But tell em' they are not fat, they are just victims of obesity, its not their fault! something about everyone is beautiful etc etc and what do ya know everyone has health issues.

I do agree on your points though, there's no arguing with the data. As for what people choose to do within their own time and privacy though, I don't care

 

[Nan_wpg]

I'm a little torn on this subject. In most cases I believe the least laws and rules the better, it makes for smarter people who have to think for themselves and make decisions that will have the least negative impact on their lives without being legally forced to do so. I do feel there is a slight misconception that everyone who likes to use cannabis is a lazy jobless layabout living with his/her parents.. would you say that someone who enjoys a few beers on the weekend is a violent person who beats his wife?

But don't get me wrong, I know there are those kind of drug users out there. The same as alcohol it comes down to moderation, not that I've smoked anything in a good few years but back then maybe I'd enjoy it on the weekend and then continue my working life as usual.. its when these things start creeping into the weekdays and more frequent issues seem to arise.

At the same time though no ones wants to see hard drug users out on the street, there's been conflicting studies about whether legalisation and relocating funds has any positive impact, some countries its worked to an extent, some in the US have failed miserably... like those mobile drug clinics that were a "safe space" for drug users to shoot up.. great idea Biden!

I think this cannibis leading to meth deal must be something a little deeper than what it seems.. I don't know.. who smokes and then thinks "yea lets do harder drugs!" must be some more underlying mental health issues there. But then again mental health issues are cool now and we shouldn't try to fix them.. right.

Probably straying a bit far off topic here, sorry!

Speaking strictly as a Canadian……

pot legal = drug dealers need something else to sell that’s cheap and easy (meth).
also consider the penalty for tax fraud (selling illegal weed and taking profit from government) is worse than selling pot.

also consider if the speed limit is 50 people will do 60. If pot is “illegal” most people do it. If it’s legal then the next step is something you’re not supposed to do. (Old joke.. want more young people to vote? Make it illegal). In addition to meth cocaine use is up.

almost every person I know who smokes pot does or has led an unproductive life, and many still live at home with mom in her basement playing video games.

we used to smoke it back in the day but it was sporadic, and on weekends at a party. Now everyone smokes pot every,day, and all day.

lots of companies have to have policies on pot usage because the youngins don’t understand they can’t come to work stoned (if they even show up).

it’s a thing

 

[OT Ducati]

I'm a beginner, should I smoke pot, meth and be an alcoholic?
If I do, will it make me Teir One?

 

[Nan_wpg]

I'm a beginner, should I smoke pot, meth and be an alcoholic?
If I do, will it make me Teir One?

If your gonna do all 3 let me know where the party is, lol

 

[OT Ducati]

If your gonna do all 3 let me know where the party is, lol

Apparently, it's everywhere.

 

[jamiegreen]

Speaking strictly as a Canadian……

pot legal = drug dealers need something else to sell that’s cheap and easy (meth).
also consider the penalty for tax fraud (selling illegal weed and taking profit from government) is worse than selling pot.

also consider if the speed limit is 50 people will do 60. If pot is “illegal” most people do it. If it’s legal then the next step is something you’re not supposed to do. (Old joke.. want more young people to vote? Make it illegal). In addition to meth cocaine use is up.

almost every person I know who smokes pot does or has led an unproductive life, and many still live at home with mom in her basement playing video games.

we used to smoke it back in the day but it was sporadic, and on weekends at a party. Now everyone smokes pot every,day, and all day.

lots of companies have to have policies on pot usage because the youngins don’t understand they can’t come to work stoned (if they even show up).

it’s a thing

Interesting.. never thought of it that way. I suppose the thrill of illegality is a pretty big factor, atleast certainly amount the younger generation, I can see how this may influence them into a harder drug.

Here in the UK we are somewhere in between, cannabis is an illegal class B drug, but most police forces don't enforce any actual laws around it for personal use, they only target larger scale operations and don't care for smaller amounts. But honestly we do still have a problem with it here, the amount of kids/teens who smoke daily and have no incentive to work or be productive seems alarmingly high... That's not a pun.

I think possibly some sort of personal decriminalisation may be a better option rather than flat out legality and government intervention. That way the dealers get to keep their little (albeit illegal) operation for a less harmful drug, and the government keeps their greedy hands out of the business, and maybe then you get some stoner kids but atleast less methed up ones. Jeez where are the parents nowerdays? Maybe they should stop relying on authorities to prevent their kids taking drugs and show some discipline, and as for anyone older who wants to throw their life away.. what can ya do..

As for work.. simple, you show up to my workplace stoned, you don't show up again. The same would apply for being drunk.

How I wonder how western society will look in 50 years..

All that said I'll still happily pay the extra $$ for a product made locally in a lot of cases, aside from the quality, I know I'm supporting a business in the hopes they won't pack up and move their operation to a low wage country.

 

[JJJJ]

One of the reasons I am attracted to Tier 1 is that many of these vendors have done the extra work to meet specs for UL or ETL. Yes, I know many of the Victron products are not UL rated and are excellent items. However, I paid the little bit extra for a unit that has that spec.

If you look at Midnite an ETL marking is common. Yes I know there is listing vs certified and that could probably be another thread. However there are plenty of products out there where safety and longevity is still an unknown.

To draw a parallel. I love Harbor Freight. Their tools are very affordable. If I need a tool for the occasional project then I will buy one of their products.

If there is a tool that I want to work day after day without fail then I will choose another supplier. These would likely be considered Tier 1.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Harbor Freight. Their tools are very affordable. If I need a tool for the occasional project then I will buy one of their products

I’d never buy on that criteria. Stripping a bolt head, injuring myself, being unable to complete a project etc etc are WAY more expensive than buying a tool that works right every day.
I own quite a few HF items but I’m extremely discriminating and selective on what I purchase.

Tier1 in solar compared to value priced products are similar: one must make a quality choice at any price to have it make sense. I wouldn’t buy something less expensive because it costs less; I’d buy something with a track record that costs less, however.

Rarely do I buy ‘cheap’ stuff. I usually spend time evaluating cheap stuff and consider the safety factor and costs if it fails and that generally leads me to mid-tier or threshold Tier1. On some things I never compromise: wiring, fuses, measuring devices, tires, milk, shoes/boots, bearings, speakers, furnaces, CO detectors, saw blades, coffee, lubricants, locks, paint… the money saved on cheap in some categories will be lost when it doesn’t last or creates a health and safety hazard.

It’s not the money you spend it’s the value for its purpose and the safety overhead.

 

[Mattb4]

We here at the Tier 1 Certification Board only approve the best for the coveted "Gold Star Tier One" label. Manufacturers that want to receive such status must submit their product to our well trained Research Apes to subject them to a battery of rigorous tests. If they pass them all with flying colors (or they bribe our certification committee) they can receive approval.

Remember you can not call a product Tier 1 unless it is rated and licensed as Tier 1.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

did magnum have their panels when you bought this? If so why did you choose midnite?
was just looking at midnites prewired samlex panels. Seems about 1300 more than the sum of the parts??

but I like it. An AIO but tier one components. Nice clean install. Just add cc.

We bought the place long after this system was installed. Turns out the person who installed it is Allan Sindelar, an early enabler of solar in New Mexico and former member of solar organizations. He is retired now, even though he did take a look at our home system late summer because of probable lightning that stopped the Outback Inverter. He was in the neighborhood but adamant about his retirement, though acted as an efficient intermediary with Outback. He is a real, Tier 1 professional who wrote articles in Home Power Magazine about 10 years ago. The content really holds the test of time, one opinion. The waffle, pancake, toast article well illustrates the mindset that works so well off grid.

https://riversideenergy.ca/documents/BXYFQWpN/OffGridPlanning.pdf

Another primer for prospective solar purchasing. Even DIY people would do well to read this perspective:

https://riversideenergy.ca/documents/BXYFQWpN/OffGridPlanning.pdf

It was a rare treat to hear his knowledge of the industry.