Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
You can, I have twice in the past few years. One was R12 right before the price took off and more recently R410A right before the price took off.
What tools are needed for basic home HVAC testing, repair, install?
- Thread starter Q-Dog
- Start date
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
Just refill that one from your barbecue gas tank.
And if you want a redneck cleaning out of your lines, just crack the flare nut for a few seconds, that's how they all used to do it and I bet you a pound to a pinch of shit a few of them still do.
bolhuijo
TechnoGeezer
you just need to holler DE MINIMIS before you do it.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is this joking or serious? Do r32 and propane and/or butane have similar characteristics in HVAC use?
Related: I understand r32 cannot be used to replace r410. Can r410 be used to replace r32?
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
R290 is propane. As for R32 to replace R290, each refrigerant has a glide characteristic and the equipment is designed for that refrigerant.
Any unit with an inside air handler should not use R290. This talk of using propane to replace any refrigerant is a backyard hack and possibly an explosion hazard.
Air to water with R290 is coming to the US at some point, this eliminates the potential explosion hazard as no R290 will be inside a structure.
I run across hydrocarbon blends on occasion, I test refrigerant purity on every system I touch. I've seen where there was some air in the system combined with the hydrocarbon blend and it blew the compressor head right off the compressor.
bolhuijo
TechnoGeezer
Can you refill an r-32 system with propane (r-290)? I don't have direct experience but I can read a pressure temperature chart. At 40F, r-290 is only half the gage pressure of r-32. It doesn't seem like a direct replacement but maybe redneck science has already proven it works? I would watch that YT video.
Also the training materials always make a big deal out of "pure refrigerant" in the system - no contaminants, noncondensables, etc. Propane from your bbq tank almost certainly ain't very pure.
Also the training materials always make a big deal out of "pure refrigerant" in the system - no contaminants, noncondensables, etc. Propane from your bbq tank almost certainly ain't very pure.
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
Yes propane and butane make excellent refrigerants but OMG they are so !ucking dangerous to use.
You would never want any part of a refrigeration system inside your house that contains these.
I would have thought the redneck comment would have made that blatantly bleeding obvious.
You would never want any part of a refrigeration system inside your house that contains these.
I would have thought the redneck comment would have made that blatantly bleeding obvious.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not obvious to me. I've been reading that propane/butane are being used in some systems ... I assume in package units that are completely outside the building?
Since most of a window A/C is outside the window, propane would be mostly safe to use?
bolhuijo
TechnoGeezer
We already have propane/r-290 in use widely - standalone commercial beverage coolers and other small systems. If I recall the total system charge is limited to 150 grams.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
No.
Glide is different.
I wouldn't watch anything that is considered dangerous, even if it did work.
Correct, R290 would be dry compared to propane from a barbeque tank.
Only 2 things belong inside any working refrigerant system. The refrigerant and oil. Anything else is a contaminate, even UV dye is a contaminant but it is used for leak detection and should only be used sparingly.
bolhuijo
TechnoGeezer
Dave911
Solar Addict
Get your 608 certification. I did 6-7 years ago online. Its really not difficult. Without it you will have a very hard time buying refrigerant. I was at Rural King a few days ago. They are similar to Tractor Supply.
They had 30 lb tanks of R134a, but there was a sign saying a 608 cert was required.
I do occasional auto AC. Replacing compressors, finding/fixing leaks, etc. I installed my 5 ton AC at home. Silver Soldered the lines, nitrogen purge, etc. Repaired my fathers and mother in laws central AC.
Its a significant set of tools, but well worth it if you plan on doing it for years. You can drop $1000 on tools pretty quickly, manifolds, vac pump, the right oil, adapters, injectors, dye. Then silver solder tools, solder, flux, torch. But service costs are very high. There is a fair amount to learn but just about all of it is on the internet.
Then you can also get into appliance repair, etc. It never ends.
You can rent Nitrogen tanks, so dont buy one unless you are doing this all the time. Welding supply outfits. The independent places are best.
Ebay and Amazon have lots of supplies.
They had 30 lb tanks of R134a, but there was a sign saying a 608 cert was required.
I do occasional auto AC. Replacing compressors, finding/fixing leaks, etc. I installed my 5 ton AC at home. Silver Soldered the lines, nitrogen purge, etc. Repaired my fathers and mother in laws central AC.
Its a significant set of tools, but well worth it if you plan on doing it for years. You can drop $1000 on tools pretty quickly, manifolds, vac pump, the right oil, adapters, injectors, dye. Then silver solder tools, solder, flux, torch. But service costs are very high. There is a fair amount to learn but just about all of it is on the internet.
Then you can also get into appliance repair, etc. It never ends.
You can rent Nitrogen tanks, so dont buy one unless you are doing this all the time. Welding supply outfits. The independent places are best.
Ebay and Amazon have lots of supplies.
wheelman55
Solar Enthusiast
I’ve got all of the tools except for nitrogen. I’ve put our three Mitsubishi splits in and they work great.
I use “acservicetech” on YouTube. The installs go pretty well with the help of the videos.
One tip from two pros is to cut off the factory flares on the line sets and redo them so they are wider, filling up the entire flare.
Caution: DO NOT CUT THE FLARES OFF ON PRECHARGED LINESETS!!!
And on the other hand, a contractor friend just installed an EG4 minisplit. It was plug and play. The charged refrigerant is in the line set. All he had to do is make the connections and run the wiring. No need for a nitrogen test, pulling a vacuum, special tools, etc.
If I ever do another I’ll be very tempted to go with one of these plug and play units.
Good luck!
I use “acservicetech” on YouTube. The installs go pretty well with the help of the videos.
One tip from two pros is to cut off the factory flares on the line sets and redo them so they are wider, filling up the entire flare.
Caution: DO NOT CUT THE FLARES OFF ON PRECHARGED LINESETS!!!
And on the other hand, a contractor friend just installed an EG4 minisplit. It was plug and play. The charged refrigerant is in the line set. All he had to do is make the connections and run the wiring. No need for a nitrogen test, pulling a vacuum, special tools, etc.
If I ever do another I’ll be very tempted to go with one of these plug and play units.
Good luck!
I pull a vacuum on the "precharged" ones lines.
halexudson
New Member
I did a mini split that is not marketed (or marked up) as being a DIY install. The only thing I needed other than automotive AC tools was a line flaring tool. I pulled a vacuum, followed the directions, and it's still working to this day. It was legitimately one of the easiest home projects I've done. I imagine getting multi-zone or ceiling cassettes would be more involved, but I'd still recommend giving it a try. Especially if you don't need aux / second source heat.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, I installed a mini split. The lines were too short so I got longer lines and flared them. It is working fine so far. The manual says I should add a couple ounces of refrigerant because of the longer lines. I ordered more R-410 for that one.
I also added R-32 with "dye and leak stopper" to a Midea U 12K and that one is cooling again. I have not been able to find any obvious leak so if it is a really slow one maybe the leak stopper will take care of it. Or maybe the dye will find it. That unit was still making some cold air, but not like it should, so I hope I can save it.
I also added R-32 with "dye and leak stopper" to a Midea U 12K and that one is cooling again. I have not been able to find any obvious leak so if it is a really slow one maybe the leak stopper will take care of it. Or maybe the dye will find it. That unit was still making some cold air, but not like it should, so I hope I can save it.
I have three Friddaire window units, a 10k 8k and 6k.
The 10k an 8k had “leaks” where a line tap and r134 (wasn’t the correct refrigerant, but what I could get) shot into them brought them back. Ran the for a least 2 years post fix and still cooled. I haven’t fired them up in 3 years since we have our mini split.
What’d you order for gauges and vacuum pump?
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The gauges are "Mastercool" I think. I borrowed a vacuum pump ... don't know how much I want to spend so I'm doing more research on the pump. Local HVAC supply wanted $500 for their cheapest pump.
It was recommended I try something called "Kwik-e-vac" for the mini split, and I used that to check for leaks and purge the lines instead of nitrogen. The company says you don't need to pump downthe system with the Kwik-e-vac gas, but I don't know enough to trust that.
Both of the vacuum pumps I have came from a local auction store. Didn't even go to the auction part just bought it from them between auctions. I think I paid $20 each from them
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The folks at the HVAC supply said they see vacuum pumps in pawn shops regularly. I have picked up some decent tools at pawn shops in the past, so I'll have to check out a few next time I'm in town.Both of the vacuum pumps I have came from a local auction store. Didn't even go to the auction part just bought it from them between auctions. I think I paid $20 each from them
I have bought stuff like that too. These are new though. Chinese cheapo for sure but new.
They look similar to this :
$69 on amazon but I got them for $20 at the local auction site.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 23,297
"R-454B systems require an active dissipation system to mitigate refrigerant leaks."
Tried to find details on that but haven't. Something like a fan to keep it below the Lower Explosive Limit (or Flammable Limit?) I suppose.
You can buy refrigeration appliances containing isobutane to use indoors. Probably what's in this one, but I don't find the name.
"DANGER – Risk Of Fire Or Explosion. Flammable Refrigerant Used. To Be Repaired Only By Trained Service Personnel. Do Not Puncture Refrigerant Tubing"
Duracool 12a, drop-in replacement for R12a. Not approved for consumer applications. Good for things kept outdoors.
www.duracool.com
www.duracool.com
Tried to find details on that but haven't. Something like a fan to keep it below the Lower Explosive Limit (or Flammable Limit?) I suppose.
You can buy refrigeration appliances containing isobutane to use indoors. Probably what's in this one, but I don't find the name.
Magic Chef 7.0 cu. ft. Chest Freezer in White HMCF7W4 - The Home Depot
Provide the best and essential addition to your kitchen space for maximum preservation by choosing this affordable Magic Chef Chest Freezer in White.
www.homedepot.com
"DANGER – Risk Of Fire Or Explosion. Flammable Refrigerant Used. To Be Repaired Only By Trained Service Personnel. Do Not Puncture Refrigerant Tubing"
Duracool 12a, drop-in replacement for R12a. Not approved for consumer applications. Good for things kept outdoors.
Duracool 12a Refrigerant 6oz Can – Deepfreeze Refrigerants Inc.
www.duracool.com
Technical Information – Deepfreeze Refrigerants Inc.
www.duracool.com
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
And they all needed a new pump cartridge because the original oil was still in it.Both of the vacuum pumps I have came from a local auction store. Didn't even go to the auction part just bought it from them between auctions. I think I paid $20 each from them
One of the most under maintained pieces of equipment. I rebuild my pumps myself, one advantage of purchasing a higher quality pump.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
I use only JB Industries DV200N vacuum pumps. If you look online, you can find them cheaper than local HVAC supply houses but still in the $700 area. Probably still more than you want to spend. You could buy a used JB DV200N pump and change out the pump cartridge. If you will only use the vacuum pump occasionally, I suggest changing the oil immediately when you are done.
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