What Voltage All-In-One Do I Need For Abundant Power Needs?

[roark12]

250 AMPS vs 125 AMPS = No biggie. Especially for Mobile applications.... I have an ambulance and am doing that very thing. (2) Growatt 3000 in split phase for 120 and 240 needs. EG4 series 3 24v 5.1KW 200AH x 6 = 30KW limited to 3000 watts 120v per side or 6000 240. Soooo completely doable. All U.S. Military vehicles are 24V or a 12v/24V combo pushing over 400AMPS out of their generators and are SLA.

If you want to run large panels you can (Ambos support their weight and structural integrity better than all other vehicles because they actually perform rollover tests with them) If your out west in the summer 9000BTU will Barely get you by. I'm going 12,000BTU because you can get good SEER ratings at 120V anything above 22 seer and your looking at 240V. Watch the Youtube vids on Mini-splits and pay attention to the draw. It's usually 150 - 500 watts nominal. When you insulate your box retains temp, thermal bridging and heat induction are going to be an absolute pain. Also 12000 BTU does a better job of dehumidifying which will keep mold out. Since you will be running 24V you can use military inter connects like "Slave Cables" and HWMMV shunts which are cheap on the web.

Thanks for all that info. I had originally decided to get a 1200 BTU unit and found a few that were 120 V. I don’t really understand how splits phase units operate with both 24 V and 48 V. I don’t know that much about these types of electronics. How does a split phase all in one deliver both 48 V and 24 V, and what are the benefits of running a 48 V system over a 24 V system? Thanks again for your help!

 

[roark12]

2x 3000w is not the same as one 6000w

you are using two sets of battery cables so you technically don't have more then 125A going to each Growatt.

Yes you got 250A current going over one busbar - but at every other point of your system you have far less than that.
Which is a good design by the way.

I wouldn't not want to have close to 150A to a single component in a mobile system. That's why over 3000W most people are going to 48V - which is good practice. Or like you did - take two units.

Thanks for the reply. What 48 V all in one system what would you recommend for my power needs?

 

[Dzl]

Thanks for all that info. I had originally decided to get a 1200 BTU unit and found a few that were 120 V. I don’t really understand how splits phase units operate with both 24 V and 48 V. I don’t know that much about these types of electronics. How does a split phase all in one deliver both 48 V and 24 V, and what are the benefits of running a 48 V system over a 24 V system? Thanks again for your help!

Benefits of 48v over 24v can basically be distilled down to delivering the same amount of power (Watts) at half the current (Amps). That means it's more practical to use a high power 5000W+ inverter and it means getting away with smaller wire and a smaller solar charge controller.

I haven't followed this conversation closely, but without looking at the context I think you misunderstood split phase. A split phase inverter would take your DC voltage (either 24 or 48 not both) and output 120/240.

 

[roark12]

Your panels are not '12v' no large panels are. Buy beyond that, talking about panels as "12v" "24V" etc is a hangover from the pre-MPPT days, its not really very relevant anymore. Your panels will be compatible with any common battery bank voltage. With your desired controller your probable choices would be 4 in series (4S) or 2 parallel strings of 2 in series (2S2P).

If you really need a 6000W inverter, I would strongly consider 48V if the batteries you purchased can be configured in that way. 6000W = a lot of current at anything other than 48V+, its not completely out of the question but its very far from optimal.

I don’t necessarily need a 6000 W inverter. I just don’t ever want to deal with running out of power, regardless of whether or whatever. I won’t be running my audio gear all the time. It’ll mostly be the mini split, fridge, lights and kitchen supplies. Oh and the water pump for sink and shower. So I’m mainly looking for an off grid system that is completely self contained and won’t ever run out of juice. Any suggestions regarding 48 V versus 24 V?

 

[roark12]

Thanks for the reply. Do you happen to know of any 48 V systems that won’t interfere with my audio gear? Or is a low-voltage system the only way to keep things quiet enough to record?

 

[roark12]

Benefits of 48v over 24v can basically be distilled down to delivering the same amount of power (Watts) at half the current (Amps). That means it's more practical to use a high power 5000W+ inverter and it means getting away with smaller wire and a smaller solar charge controller.

I haven't followed this conversation closely, but without looking at the context I think you misunderstood split phase. A split phase inverter would take your DC voltage (either 24 or 48 not both) and output 120/240.

But I don’t have any appliances that are 240 V. So I would need a converter. Wouldn’t that cause noise also?

 

[ianganderton]

If you want to live off grid you will eventually get used to reducing your power needs. It’s a hard process for people to go through. The bottomless pit of power available when connected to an electricity grid is addictive.

For 12V/24V/48V it’s relatively simple as it’s all about the amps going into the inverter.

12V is for primarily 12V use with a max 2000W inverter being used occasionally

24V is for 1500 to 3000W inverters. It requires battery configurations of 2 x 12v batteries in series.

48V is best when the inverter is being used most of the time. The wattage doesn’t matter so much but you will need batteries configured to be able to provide 48V. That means 4 in series of variations in that.

For your planned power needs 48V is a no brainer

Where about are you and/or where do you plan to be? It’s worth looking at winter solar production as part of your planning. Summer is relatively easy (unless you need aircon) but of grid solar is challenging in the winter and needs planning for

 

[eXodus]

Thanks for the reply. I was looking at the dimensions of most 48V systems and have no idea where it will fit in my ambulance. But if you’re correct, it sounds like I have to find a place for the 48 V. I need a high surge wattage for my gear, my 120 V refrigerator and 120 V mini split AC/heater. How would that work out with four panels and for 200ah batterie

didn't you already say you bought a MPP with 6000W?

Nothing you listed so far takes you over that limit. No even close. The Mini split needs maybe 1000w and the fridge maybe 400w
What kind of power supply do you got in your computer? as far as I know the largest you get for a iMac is 300W How many do you got of those?

What you listed in your initial spec would probably run of a 3000W inverter and you already doubled that.

Put all your devices on a power meter (Kill a watt or similar) and MEASURE how much they draw. Use a table and put all your indivial readings in. I don't know how much your studio equipment needs. Without that information it's really difficult to tell how to build your system

 

[Dzl]

didn't you already say you bought a MPP with 6000W?

Nothing you listed so far takes you over that limit. No even close.

The big outlier is this:
"I'll be running a considerable amount of 120v gear--guitar amps, audio interfaces, mics, studio monitors, synthesizers, outboard effects, power conditioners, etc."

Its not an area I have any insight/experience, but some of those things (like guitar amps) at least sound like they might require a lot of juice. Maybe not as much as I imagine.

Put all your devices on a power meter (Kill a watt or similar) and MEASURE how much they draw. Use a table and put all your indivial readings in.

^ Take this advice OP, You want advice on what voltage, what inverter size, etc you should go with, but without a better accounting of what you actually need to power, we'll just be guestimating with imperfect info.


Also want to repeat that I think you are still misunderstanding the difference between frequency and voltage when it comes to interference. IDK what if any effect different voltage has--but bear in mind that most audio equipment will be 120v or 240v so if high voltage had any negative impact the difference between 24 and 48 would be a lesser concern. The person who brought up interference was referring to frequency, there are high and low frequency inverters of any voltage (the frequency refers to switching frequency). If you search this forum, you will find some discussions on how to reduce interference, some are related to HAM radios and inverters, some are more general. I believe Samlex is a company that makes inverters that is more conscious than most about interference.

 

[roark12]

If you want to live off grid you will eventually get used to reducing your power needs. It’s a hard process for people to go through. The bottomless pit of power available when connected to an electricity grid is addictive.

For 12V/24V/48V it’s relatively simple as it’s all about the amps going into the inverter.

12V is for primarily 12V use with a max 2000W inverter being used occasionally

24V is for 1500 to 3000W inverters. It requires battery configurations of 2 x 12v batteries in series.

48V is best when the inverter is being used most of the time. The wattage doesn’t matter so much but you will need batteries configured to be able to provide 48V. That means 4 in series of variations in that.

For your planned power needs 48V is a no brainer

Where about are you and/or where do you plan to be? It’s worth looking at winter solar production as part of your planning. Summer is relatively easy (unless you need aircon) but of grid solar is challenging in the winter and needs planning for

 

[roark12]

thank you for the enlightenment. 48 V is it is. Yes I’ll be needing power this winter, but I was planning to spend the winter in the keys diving, so I’ll need AC then as well as the summer. Do you have any suggestions other than the LVX 6548 I’m looking at? Or or know of a all in one unit that would be better suited for my needs and isn’t too loud to affect my audio recording? Thanks again in advance for all your help!

 

[eXodus]

Its not an area I have any insight/experience, but some of those things (like guitar amps) at least sound like they might require a lot of juice. Maybe not as much as I imagine.

I was organizing Open-Air concerts and we ran Floats on Parades - to make a few hundred people deaf a 3000W generator was sufficient.

 

[Dzl]

thank you for the enlightenment. 48 V is it is. Yes I’ll be needing power this winter, but I was planning to spend the winter in the keys diving, so I’ll need AC then as well as the summer. Do you have any suggestions other than the LVX 6548 I’m looking at? Or or know of a all in one unit that would be better suited for my needs and isn’t too loud to affect my audio recording? Thanks again in advance for all your help!

I personally don't know much about all-in-ones, the simplicity is appealing, but the trade-offs have never fit my personal preference. The Victron Easysolar is the only one that has piqued my interest but its not available in the states.

The main thing I would double check when looking at AIO's is the idle power consumption (and also make sure you understand the different ratings--many newbies often misunderstand what rating applies to what function of the AIO).

 

[roark12]

Ha. Sounds fun. I'm not blasting volume much these days, but for when driving. My situation is centered more on being able power all my gear I have at once, should the inspiration compel me...without worrying about sleeping in all all my clothes in my mummy bag, or worse, waking up in a pool of sweat.

I personally don't know much about all-in-ones, the simplicity is appealing, but the trade-offs have never fit my personal preference. The Victron Easysolar is the only one that has piqued my interest but its not available in the states.

The main thing I would double check when looking at AIO's is the idle power consumption (and also make sure you understand the different ratings--many newbies often misunderstand what rating applies to what function of the AIO).

yeah, i’m definitely one of those newbies. I was looking at some of the numbers but had no idea which ones pertains to my scenario or which to use in calculating any sort of daily power usage. Thanks for the response and, and I’ll keep researching I guess.

 

[roark12]

250 AMPS vs 125 AMPS = No biggie. Especially for Mobile applications.... I have an ambulance and am doing that very thing. (2) Growatt 3000 in split phase for 120 and 240 needs. EG4 series 3 24v 5.1KW 200AH x 6 = 30KW limited to 3000 watts 120v per side or 6000 240. Soooo completely doable. All U.S. Military vehicles are 24V or a 12v/24V combo pushing over 400AMPS out of their generators and are SLA.

If you want to run large panels you can (Ambos support their weight and structural integrity better than all other vehicles because they actually perform rollover tests with them) If your out west in the summer 9000BTU will Barely get you by. I'm going 12,000BTU because you can get good SEER ratings at 120V anything above 22 seer and your looking at 240V. Watch the Youtube vids on Mini-splits and pay attention to the draw. It's usually 150 - 500 watts nominal. When you insulate your box retains temp, thermal bridging and heat induction are going to be an absolute pain. Also 12000 BTU does a better job of dehumidifying which will keep mold out. Since you will be running 24V you can use military inter connects like "Slave Cables" and HWMMV shunts which are cheap on the web.

So I have been looking at the 12,000 BTU units now and they do have a considerably higher seer rating. And just as you said the majority of them are 240v instead of 120v. This begs the question of going to a split phase unit and running the mini split off of the 240v leg.
But what exactly does that mean for all my 120v appliances and audio gear? I’m not understanding the diagrams/schematics I’m seeing as far as how AIOs split the inverter power distribution.
Are they combining two 120v legs into one 240v leg?
And does that then in turn cancel out the utilization of the 120v electronics?
Frustrated and confused. Thanks again for all your help thus far!!!

 

[roark12]

Benefits of 48v over 24v can basically be distilled down to delivering the same amount of power (Watts) at half the current (Amps). That means it's more practical to use a high power 5000W+ inverter and it means getting away with smaller wire and a smaller solar charge controller.

I haven't followed this conversation closely, but without looking at the context I think you misunderstood split phase. A split phase inverter would take your DC voltage (either 24 or 48 not both) and output 120/240.

Thanks yet again for your response. So, if I were to pull the trigger on a 48v split phase all-in-one, how would I run all of my 120v devices while powering a 240v mini-split ac/heater (possibly 24/7)? Can this even be done? Running both voltages in parallel simultaneously?
Thanks

 

[Dzl]

Thanks yet again for your response. So, if I were to pull the trigger on a 48v split phase all-in-one, how would I run all of my 120v devices while powering a 240v mini-split ac/heater (possibly 24/7)? Can this even be done? Running both voltages in parallel simultaneously?
Thanks

I'm hopelessly ignorant of the AC side of things, including split phase. But my basic understanding is that split phase essentially gives you 2x120v, so you would basically have two legs, between the hot of each leg and neutral is 120v, and across the legs would be 240v. I'm shaky on the technicalities, but I'm confident you could power both 120 and 240 volt devices with a split phase inverter.

 

[Jerrys13]

So I have been looking at the 12,000 BTU units now and they do have a considerably higher seer rating. And just as you said the majority of them are 240v instead of 120v. This begs the question of going to a split phase unit and running the mini split off of the 240v leg.
But what exactly does that mean for all my 120v appliances and audio gear? I’m not understanding the diagrams/schematics I’m seeing as far as how AIOs split the inverter power distribution.
Are they combining two 120v legs into one 240v leg?
And does that then in turn cancel out the utilization of the 120v electronics?
Frustrated and confused. Thanks again for all your help thus far!!!

Sorry about that Roark. The highest SEER ratings I have seen is 33 SEER on David Poz's video. The majority of minisplits @12000 BTU are 120V. Just do a google search of "120V 12000 BTU Minisplit" and a ton of manufacturers will come up. Running 240 is complicated so I would not recommend it.
To me, it sounds like you want A Low Frequency inverter to eliminate as much "Noise" during your recording and playbacks through your line conditioners. You want a 120V All in one that can support 48V battery back up. You would want long "off grid" play time so a 20KW 0r 30KW bank will suit you just fine. This gives you long play time.

 

[ianganderton]

Sorry about that Roark. The highest SEER ratings I have seen is 33 SEER on David Poz's video. The majority of minisplits @12000 BTU are 120V. Just do a google search of "120V 12000 BTU Minisplit" and a ton of manufacturers will come up. Running 240 is complicated so I would not recommend it.
To me, it sounds like you want A Low Frequency inverter to eliminate as much "Noise" during your recording and playbacks through your line conditioners. You want a 120V All in one that can support 48V battery back up. You would want long "off grid" play time so a 20KW 0r 30KW bank will suit you just fine. This gives you long play time.

Just so it’s clear the maths on solar/battery powered AC units in mobile applications is super challenging. They require lots of battery and lots of solar. The problem you will run into is getting enough solar on the roof

If you want to run other high loads additional to the AC then that’s adding to an already challenging desire

I 100% recommend you do some good calculations on exactly what you want to run and optimise the hell out of everything you can if you don’t want to waste a load of money on an expensive system that still doesn’t do what you need it to

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

I'm not sure if anyone else caught this but the gear your running is highly sensitive to "Noise" that High Frequency inverters put out. It would be more weight, but a Low Frequency inverter will not have as much sensitivity issues with your equipment when running an LF inverter. I went cheap with the Growatts and now have to ferrite everything for my ham radio equipment.

Just happened upon this post - and this is really good for me to think about too as I do audiobook narration on the side and that is what I will be doing FT while in my bus. I never thought about the sound of the inverters/system with my equipment. ?‍?