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diy solar

Where are the inexpensive sodium batteries?

They're out and in some EVs (not available in the U.S.). With the tariffs on batteries, might be a while before you get the new lower prices.
 
Toyota has them. Unknown if it is a patented process that will limit others from making them or requiring a license to do so.

"Toyota's solid-state batteries are a potential game-changer for electric vehicles (EVs), and the company is aiming to mass produce them by 2027 or 2028"
 
BarracudaBob said:
Toyota has them. Unknown if it is a patented process that will limit others from making them or requiring a license to do so.

"Toyota's solid-state batteries are a potential game-changer for electric vehicles (EVs), and the company is aiming to mass produce them by 2027 or 2028"
Click to expand...
Sodium or solid state?
 
They're in production, but everything produced goes to the first customers which include car manufacturers and energy storage systems. There are no real sources of cells yet as we have them with LFP today: that needs a ramp-up of production. The main issue is that a lot of inverters ad charge controllers don't support the voltage range, which in turn meant that the sources for cells that were there (Docan had some for example) now essentially dried up because no one bought them.

LFP has been dropping in price so much as well, which doesn't help since Sodium now is more expensive (since the scale isn't there yet).
 
upnorthandpersonal said:
They're in production, but everything produced goes to the first customers which include car manufacturers and energy storage systems. There are no real sources of cells yet as we have them with LFP today: that needs a ramp-up of production. The main issue is that a lot of inverters ad charge controllers don't support the voltage range, which in turn meant that the sources for cells that were there (Docan had some for example) now essentially dried up because no one bought them.

LFP has been dropping in price so much as well, which doesn't help since Sodium now is more expensive (since the scale isn't there yet).
Click to expand...
You not kidding:
  • Wide voltage range: Operating Voltage 8.0V~16.0V
 
 
Extensive Sodium Ion battery testing.
9 videos.
youtube.com

Sodium Battery Tests

Testing Sodium cells and batteries, charge discharge curves, best charging methods, compatible hardware and equipment, safety. Sharing all test results on Yo...
youtube.com youtube.com
 
DPC said:
The more I read the more I wonder if I should wait for sodium batteries

Click to expand...
It is too late for me 😔 Save yourself 👍
 
DPC said:
The more I read the more I wonder if I should wait for sodium batteries

Click to expand...
[Fixed the URL for you]
Gotta love the bafflegab:

About this item​

  • * Sodium ion batteries have better safety performance. The internal resistance of sodium ion batteries is slightly higher than that of lithium batteries, resulting in less instantaneous heat generation and lower temperature rise in safety tests such as short circuits. In the tests of all safety items such as overcharge, overdischarge, short circuit, acupuncture, extrusion, etc., no fire or explosion was found in the sodium ion battery.
  • * Na ion batteries have better rate performance. The Stokes diameter of sodium ions is smaller than that of lithium ions, and the electrolyte with the same concentration has higher ionic conductivity than lithium salt electrolytes. The solvation energy of sodium ions is lower than that of lithium ions, resulting in faster kinetics and interfacial diffusion properties in the electrolyte
 
wpns said:
internal resistance of sodium ion batteries is slightly higher than that of lithium batteries, resulting in less instantaneous heat generation
Click to expand...
You are just the messenger but I have a hard time comprehending this "More resistance at the same current creates more heat"
 
Gadwall*Drake said:
I'm happy to learn they are tolerant of acupuncture. That means they should work just fine with a turbo encabulator.
Click to expand...
Years ago we had some parts made by a company in Finland.
So our request was translated from English to Portuguese for the head office to approve, then to Fin, who them sub contracted to a company in Russia...

its amazing in this day and age how many times you might translate something now...
Turbo encabulator aside some of what I read does make sense...

I watch the metal markets and the impact of these new battery is already starting to change prices for metals used in rechargeable batteries...

"

Nickel futures were at $15,775 per tonne in December, holding the slight losses of the year and not far from the four-year low of $15,500 touched mid-November amid the view that the ongoing supply glut is likely to maintain next year. The ample supply from Indonesia, the world’s top supplier, persisted through the second half of 2024. This extended the soaring supply levels brought by the surge of Chinese smelting projects in Indonesia after the latter prohibited the export of nickel ores in 2020. Indonesia was the host of 44 nickel smelting operations as of September, compared with four 10 years prior. The supply glut prompted Indonesian authorities to state that they may place output quotas on smelters to balance prices. On top of that, new technology used by Chinese battery producers started to use technologies that refrain from using nickel, further denting the outlook for the metal."​

 
Last edited:
BarracudaBob said:
You are just the messenger but I have a hard time comprehending this "More resistance at the same current creates more heat"
Click to expand...
I _think_ they are trying to say that the higher internal resistance is a _good_ thing because it limits the short-circuit current, but yeah, it makes no sense and is only there to try to convince the clueless that there's a lot of science, therefore it's good.

"Large scale ion-implanted complementary metal oxide field effect transistor integrated circuits" are definitely used!
 
BarracudaBob said:
You are just the messenger but I have a hard time comprehending this "More resistance at the same current creates more heat"
Click to expand...
Well, he actually implied the opposite, so I think both of you might be trolling because P=i^2*R. EDIT: I re read and realized you were saying "in light of this fact". My bad!:fp2
 
Last edited:
jorby said:
Well, he actually implied the opposite, so I think both of you might be trolling because P=i^2*R.
Click to expand...
TRUE BUT, isn't that P the heat in watts? higher internal resistance leads to more heat production due to energy loss as current flows through the battery
 
BarracudaBob said:
TRUE BUT, isn't that P the heat in watts? higher internal resistance leads to more heat production due to energy loss as current flows through the battery
Click to expand...
I noted my blunder with an edit. It happened because I didn't insert the implied "because" in the middle of your sentence.:)
 
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