Which charger+inverter?

[hardtop]

LOL


You must have some space on top?

Even if it’s only a couple commodity 100W panels - you be surprised how far just a little 200W input can sustain a small battery bank over the course of a day. This works “better” with LiFePo because they don’t need to achieve a full charge daily- they’ll ’hang’ at 60% or whatever without damage. Not so with lead batteries.

I don’t recommend renorgy anything but I ‘might’ consider their rebranded panels though since they are commodities. I would recommend these windy nation panels; I have six- they work well and are compact. You might be able to accommodate their small footprint. Similar are the BougeRV panels.

Windy Nation has been great to deal with- once I was pondering some stuff and came up with a light technical question. I emailed them- forget now if it was New Year’s Eve or Christmas Eve but I was pretty shocked to get an answer back the next morning. First class imho.

This is the space I have up top

 

[Mirlen]

This is the space I have up top

Luggage rack an option then mount them to that? Would something in the MPP lineup do what you need? They seem to be pretty flexible but may be a bit big in a vehicle...but it does tie together solar input/grid input, MPPT, inverter, charger in one simple box.

 

[Adam De Lay]

I need a switch because the inverter always runs off the battery. I'd like to draw energy from AC input if it is supplied. I'm pretty sure the tech exists, RV's have that feature. When they are plugged in they aren't drawing from the battery.

The multiplus prioritizes grid/shore power over battery power. As soon as grid is connected, the inverter switches over to it.

Heres more options for you: https://www.currentconnected.com/product-category/inv/12-volt-inverters/

I’m running a pair of the Multiplus 2 48v, 5kva inverters for my house.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

This is the space I have up top

Oh boy.
I was thinking RV/trailer
Imho: I couldn’t live ‘out of a vehicle’ myself.

A foam-insulated box of air doesn’t weigh that much. And accommodation for some sort of shower, hot water, a real fridge are necessary imho. I just couldn’t do more than camp on a group off-road trip without that stuff- I’d go nuts.

You may have no interest in a trailer, but an aluminum utility trailer, single leaf-spring axle SOA, doesn’t weigh much and has adequate off-road clearance. 5x10 is commodious with a lightweight foam-insulated enclosure built over it. If you are overlanding for weeks and don’t want thousands of pounds behind you a 5x10 would be way more comfortable than sleeping in a vehicle. I know people do it but I’m not that mentally flexible these days myself. I’d sorta want a chair and a place to stand up under cover in the rain. I’d go nuts stuck in a vehicle. but in a way that’s not a fair assessment- I have skills and a shop and I could build that from scratch complete with a westfalia-style hinged roof so minimal drag on the road from height. But I digress.

You could do a 100W panel, but imho space INSIDE is the commodity that would concern me.

 

[hardtop]

The multiplus prioritizes grid/shore power over battery power. As soon as grid is connected, the inverter switches over to it.

Heres more options for you: https://www.currentconnected.com/product-category/inv/12-volt-inverters/

I’m running a pair of the Multiplus 2 48v, 5kva inverters for my house.

That was a great link, it has the Multiplus Compact on it. That is the unit I like since the inverter output is pretty much 15 amps so anything I would plug into a wall I could plug into the Multiplus Compact.

But I'm not sure about the charging adjustment. The specs say the charge current is 80/50. Is there a feature to adjust the output to 25 amps? I'm getting a 4 pack of the EVE LF304 cells that should arrive next week and 18650 battery store says 20-25amps is what I should charge it with.

 

[740GLE]

Yeah, shore power charging is completely configurable.

As for that recommendation of 25a, that’s a conservative number. I’d have no issues tossing up to 100a at 305ah cells.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Yeah, shore power charging is completely configurable.

As for that recommendation of 25a, that’s a conservative number. I’d have no issues tossing up to 100a at 305ah cells.

I use those same cells, for a mobile unit, and run up to 130A (150A BMS) and they don't even blink.

 

[OffGridForGood]

I use those same cells, for a mobile unit, and run up to 130A (150A BMS) and they don't even blink.

looking at your use-case, I like the suggested MPP1012 that @12VoltInstalls noted. small and does everything you need, if you can deploy some PV in some instances, it has the ability to easily plug in some MC-4's and you get added energy. I would put a bi-facial PV up on the roof racks of the LR, not because the bi-facial will gain anything from the back, but because they are transluscient - and will still let light through your sunroof! lol. Maybe one big 440, during a sunny day you could gain a few kWh. might keep the car cooler too with a bit of space between the PV and the car roof.

 

[Adam De Lay]

That was a great link, it has the Multiplus Compact on it. That is the unit I like since the inverter output is pretty much 15 amps so anything I would plug into a wall I could plug into the Multiplus Compact.

But I'm not sure about the charging adjustment. The specs say the charge current is 80/50. Is there a feature to adjust the output to 25 amps? I'm getting a 4 pack of the EVE LF304 cells that should arrive next week and 18650 battery store says 20-25amps is what I should charge it with.

Yep, as @740GLE stated, you can configure what you want your charging rate to be. I'm not sure why they state 20-25a is what should be used for charging. Even a .2C charge rate is 60a. Most of those cells can handle a 1C charge, it's just not recommended to do that a lot as the higher charge rate has potential to shorten the cell life.

 

[hardtop]

looking at your use-case, I like the suggested MPP1012 that @12VoltInstalls noted. small and does everything you need, if you can deploy some PV in some instances, it has the ability to easily plug in some MC-4's and you get added energy. I would put a bi-facial PV up on the roof racks of the LR, not because the bi-facial will gain anything from the back, but because they are transluscient - and will still let light through your sunroof! lol. Maybe one big 440, during a sunny day you could gain a few kWh. might keep the car cooler too with a bit of space between the PV and the car roof.

The MPP1012 looks nice and affordable too, but I don't plan to do solar. Buying a roof rack in order to have solar is spending a lot more money than I need to. However, if I get the rack for something else in the future I could do solar.

Yep, as @740GLE stated, you can configure what you want your charging rate to be. I'm not sure why they state 20-25a is what should be used for charging. Even a .2C charge rate is 60a. Most of those cells can handle a 1C charge, it's just not recommended to do that a lot as the higher charge rate has potential to shorten the cell life.

The 20-25amp figure might be for the 10 year life span estimate. I tried a couple calculator to tell me what amps I can charge at for 1 c and 4 of these batteries and they are saying 304 amps, that doesn't sound right. Or is it? I ordered the Multiplus Compact and now I'm wondering if I should get a more powerful charger since it sounds like 80 amps is pretty weak? The more powerful Victron Multiplus charges at 120amp if I remember correctly, but I can only draw 15 amps from 120V when charging.

 

[Adam De Lay]

The 20-25amp figure might be for the 10 year life span estimate. I tried a couple calculator to tell me what amps I can charge at for 1 c and 4 of these batteries and they are saying 304 amps, that doesn't sound right. Or is it? I ordered the Multiplus Compact and now I'm wondering if I should get a more powerful charger since it sounds like 80 amps is pretty weak? The more powerful Victron Multiplus charges at 120amp if I remember correctly, but I can only draw 15 amps from 120V when charging.

It's possible. If you actually look at the datasheet on the link you shared, the standard charging rate is .5C (152a) and the standard discharge current is 1C (304a).

Keep in mind that the charge amperage you see on the inverter is DC amps. You're going from 120v down to 12.8v nominal. So charging from 15a at 120v is 1800W, which would be 140a at 12.8v (before any cable/conversion losses).

 

[hardtop]

I canceled the Victron Compact order and was about to get the Victron MultiPlus 2 for the 120a charger, but I don't need such a massive inverter. I'm looking at separates now and a ~120a charger is not an easy find. I looked at the COTEK, Samlex and Epoc brands as well as Victron Phoenix charger and they are not close to 120a charging output.

I'm pretty weary of ordering no-name stuff off amazon/alibaba and brands that stand behind their product even though they are more expensive is what I'm looking for. What are the reputable brand chargers for the EVE LF304 Grade A Cells ?

 

[Adam De Lay]

I haven't seen stand-alone chargers that size that are 12v chargers.

If you discharged the battery down to zero and had to do a full charge, the 120a charger would take approx 2.53 hrs and the 80a charger would take approx 3.8 hrs.

It does seem like the Victron gear holds its value, so you probably wouldn't have a hard time selling hardware down the road if you want to upscale or downsize.

 

[hardtop]

I haven't seen stand-alone chargers that size that are 12v chargers.

If you discharged the battery down to zero and had to do a full charge, the 120a charger would take approx 2.53 hrs and the 80a charger would take approx 3.8 hrs.

It does seem like the Victron gear holds its value, so you probably wouldn't have a hard time selling hardware down the road if you want to upscale or downsize.

I was curious about how long it would take to charge. A 2 1/2hr charge time would be sweet and it is under the standard charging rate. The math results are great information, thanks for that.

 

[OffGridForGood]

I was thinking RV/trailer
Imho: I couldn’t live ‘out of a vehicle’ myself.

but doesn't his avatar show a hard top trailer unit?

This is the space I have up top

do you tow the hardtop with the LR?

 

[740GLE]

The MPP1012 looks nice and affordable too, but I don't plan to do solar. Buying a roof rack in order to have solar is spending a lot more money than I need to. However, if I get the rack for something else in the future I could do solar.

If I was driving a land rover I’d be camper van poor too

I kid I kid. I would look at stand by consumption, some of those AIO eat up batteries just sitting.

Spending your money in the right way should be able to net you a low idle unit that will allow you to boom dock quite some time without solar as long as you manage your loads.

I have to imagine you will be using this hot plate maybe 1hr a day?

 

[hardtop]

but doesn't his avatar show a hard top trailer unit?



do you tow the hardtop with the LR?

I don't have a trailer, the tent is an 8 man canvas 14'X10' that I can stand up in and walk around.

If I was driving a land rover I’d be camper van poor too

I kid I kid. I would look at stand by consumption, some of those AIO eat up batteries just sitting.

Spending your money in the right way should be able to net you a low idle unit that will allow you to boom dock quite some time without solar as long as you manage your loads.

I have to imagine you will be using this hot plate maybe 1hr a day?

The Victron Multiplus 2 eats 15w at idle. I hear you on the spending. Its pretty hard tbh. I'm looking at the Victron Multiplus 2 manual and it isn't clear at all how to charge a LIFEP04 battery, it defaults to lead acid. And it doesn't have standard AC cord inputs. I have a lot to learn lol.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Two of those mono 100W diy-hinged together and the 26W idle MPPSolar 1012LV-MS and rock on. ~$500 LiFePo battery and you’ll have everything you wanted and more for what? $1200
That just makes sense to me.
Space is your issue.

 

[Adam De Lay]

The Victron Multiplus 2 eats 15w at idle. I hear you on the spending. Its pretty hard tbh. I'm looking at the Victron Multiplus 2 manual and it isn't clear at all how to charge a LIFEP04 battery, it defaults to lead acid. And it doesn't have standard AC cord inputs. I have a lot to learn lol.

Yeah, the low idle is a big sell.

If you buy from Current Connected, they’ll program the inverter for you if you want. Just tell them what cells you have.

As far as wiring, you could do something as simple as cut up a surge protector or 3-way extension cord and use the male end for AC in and the female end for AC Out.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Space is your issue.

I don't have a trailer, the tent is an 8 man canvas 14'X10' that I can stand up in and walk around.

140 sqft - guess ya got that figured out then!

With no Solar PV input, I know I would focus on the lowest posible idle consumption I could find. Any significant idle x 24hrs per day is always a lot of lost power Can you turn off the inverter when not in use? ie do you need it on all the time?