Which Converter/charger should I use.

[mmays1]

I have the following equipment:

-960 Watts solar panels
-Victron MPPT 150/70 solar Charge
Controller
-4 x 100ah lifepo4 batteries
-Onan Marquis gold 5500 generator
-Progressive Dynamics PD9145AL
converter
-Victron SmartShunt 500A/50mV

I am noticing that when I run my generator, I am only getting a max of 13.35 volts. My understanding is that this may be due to the limit of the converter. It seems to switch to float and maintain that level. However, I understand my batteries are fully charged at 13.8 and that the charging volts can be up ro 14.4 while charging. Is this correct? Also, is there a better converter out there that would allow me to fully charge the battery bank? Thanks in advance.

Mike

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I have the following equipment:

-960 Watts solar panels
-Victron MPPT 150/70 solar Charge
Controller
-4 x 100ah lifepo4 batteries
-Onan Marquis gold 5500 generator
-Progressive Dynamics PD9145AL
converter
-Victron SmartShunt 500A/50mV

I am noticing that when I run my generator, I am only getting a max of 13.35 volts. My understanding is that this may be due to the limit of the converter. It seems to switch to float and maintain that level. However, I understand my batteries are fully charged at 13.8 and that the charging volts can be up ro 14.4 while charging. Is this correct? Also, is there a better converter out there that would allow me to fully charge the battery bank? Thanks in advance.

Mike

Current flows because there's a voltage difference between source and load. You can't have a source at 14.4V and a load at 13.35V connected with a suitable wire. Their voltages will be very close to one another based on the resistance in the wire.

If everything is in order, you're at 13.35V because that's all the battery will draw at the given voltage difference.

Worth MEASURING the voltage at the converter output terminals and MEASURING the voltage at the battery terminals and compare them, AND note the voltage and charge current reported by the shunt.

It may be possible your voltage drop is so bad, the converter is notably higher than the battery and the voltage of the converter has dropped to 13.6, which may only allow a trickle of current to flow.

 

[HRTKD]

Traditional RV converters are just dumb. Like dumb like a box of rocks. Maybe not quite that bad. They're just not that intelligent and they don't produce a quality charge for how much they cost.

On my old system, when the Victron solar charge controller was cranking, if I fired up the generator, which powered the converter, I didn't see much in the way of amps coming out of the converter. 55 amp converter putting out maybe .5 amps. My conclusion was that it saw the voltage that the solar charge controller was producing and the converter gave up, deciding that the battery didn't need to be charged.

Take your battery bank down to 50% state of charge and run your test again at night.

 

[datdude]

On my old system, when the Victron solar charge controller was cranking, if I fired up the generator, which powered the converter, I didn't see much in the way of amps coming out of the converter. 55 amp converter putting out maybe .5 amps. My conclusion was that it saw the voltage that the solar charge controller was producing and the converter gave up, deciding that the battery didn't need to be charged.

This matches my experience with WFCO equipment thus far in that the charger detects sufficient voltage from solar and shuts down charging prematurely. Until I replace it, if I want faster charging while on shore power, I need to disconnect the solar feed. WFCO sucks.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

WFCO in particular seems to have difficulty entering bulk UNLESS the battery voltage is "low." FLA/AGM/GEL at high SoC can easily be 12.XV to trigger re-bulk where LFP may never be, so WFCO just "floats" them at ~13.6V.

 

[Aussieguy]

check the converter and battery negatives to frame
mine so crappy...... they used a star washer to make contact through the paint

removed the washer and the paint so lugs were good metal to metal contact
converter now charges battery at 50amps instead of 10

never measured voltage drop ...

Then I got my solar ..... and have never used the converter since!

I'd be asking why 960w of solar is not keeping battery full?
How much power do you use each day and what is your solar output?

 

[HRTKD]

check the converter and battery negatives to frame
mine so crappy...... they used a star washer to make contact through the paint

removed the washer and the paint so lugs were good metal to metal contact
converter now charges battery at 50amps instead of 10

Gah! I think I saw the same thing on my RV, but it didn't register.

 

[mmays1]

Thank you all for your knowledge. My solar bank is bringing in about 2.2 to 2.5kwh during the day at a max of about 450 watts. (I'm sure we are using more than most and we are looking at areas we can reduce)

A couple of weeks ago we ran the batteries down very low and since then my converter hasn't seemed to load the batteries past about 13.5. The last couple of days I have shut off electricity during the day to get maximum benefits of the solar so I have had minimal drain. I am also running my generator the last few nights to see if I can fill the batteries.
Seems to be working since my battery bank is showing 14.3V with the generator on tonight. I'm thinking that the batteries were too low and, as you all have pointed out, the converter was in a float state. I will definitely check the voltage at the converter and the batteries and I will ensure I have a solid ground

Thanks again for the knowledge. I admit my ignorance and it's nice to have this forum to keep me learning. I will continue to monitor the situation.

 

[time2roll]

The 9145AL may just need a control wizard to get 4 hours of 14.4 volts on demand. Might be discontinued. Call PD and see if the PD92201 Pendant will work. The website seems a bit confusing. Your model seems to be listed near the bottom of the page. Call and see if you just need the $35 controller.

https://www.progressivedyn.com/chargewizard/

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thank you all for your knowledge. My solar bank is bringing in about 2.2 to 2.5kwh during the day at a max of about 450 watts. (I'm sure we are using more than most and we are looking at areas we can reduce)

A couple of weeks ago we ran the batteries down very low and since then my converter hasn't seemed to load the batteries past about 13.5. The last couple of days I have shut off electricity during the day to get maximum benefits of the solar so I have had minimal drain. I am also running my generator the last few nights to see if I can fill the batteries.
Seems to be working since my battery bank is showing 14.3V with the generator on tonight. I'm thinking that the batteries were too low and, as you all have pointed out, the converter was in a float state. I will definitely check the voltage at the converter and the batteries and I will ensure I have a solid ground

Thanks again for the knowledge. I admit my ignorance and it's nice to have this forum to keep me learning. I will continue to monitor the situation.

Depending on the converter, you can simply power cycle them on the AC side, and it will force a re-bulk. I know my Powermax converters do this.

14.3V means you're fully charged.

 

[HRTKD]

I saw different results when I disconnected the converter from both AC and DC, giving it a minute or two to clear any capacitors. As I recall, disconnecting just the AC side wasn't good enough. This was on an IOTA Engineering DLS-55 with the IQ4 LiFePO4 module.

Different products, different hacks.

 

[Aussieguy]

If you living/camping on battery ... always turn OFF unused loads
look for anything that has parasitic loads and shut them down if you can !
obviously you don't want to re-programming presets all the time but if you rarely use the house radio... shut it off completely
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I'd still be asking why your solar is not keeping up?

you got Victron .... controller and shunt
is the controller bluetooth?

knowing how much you drain out of the batteries is first priority
your shunt will tell you..
monitor your usage for a while (look at the app for the shunt for a history)

get a average usage ... so you can calculate if your solar is even big enough to handle average usage
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if your controller has bluetooth ... can you see daily production history?

what sized panels ?
are there any "different" panels in the string? you don't want mixed panels unless you know what you are doing..

are they all still producing correctly... see if you can measure each panels output
a bad panel... could affect the whole string.

how are panels connected series/parallel?
maybe increase voltage (series connection)
may help if wiring is on the smaller side , especially if you don't have a shading problem

are they dirty?

once you establish a benchmark ...
if production drops off without an explanation you can investigate
obviously allowing for location, winter or rainy days

winter .... move to a sunny sites less heating bill (propane)
summer ... some afternoon shade is good (after batteries are full)

You already got a reasonable investment in the solar... make sure it is optimized and performing as best as possible

you will come across "Bad" days... but if you know your system and it's capability you could say...
OK it rained for two days... batteries are low ... but it is nice and sunny now
it will take 3 days to top them back up
I can handle the 3 days OR turn on generator for a little while

BTW you do NOT have to charge to 100% every day...
if your bank is big enough ... and you have good spare capacity
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4 x 100ah make sure they are connected so each contributes to load equally
connections to battery need to be inspected ..... regularly
laser thermometer or touch connections see if one is HOTTER then rest

Bluetooth on battery?
if yes ... check how each is performing if one is always 100% ... find out why it's not contributing
another routine maintenance task you should perform ....

If no bluetooth once in a while disconnect them and measure the voltage on each
same time look at terminals and lugs

 

[BarryAllen]

Your PD9145AL converter may be limiting the charging voltage, resulting in only 13.35V. LiFePO4 batteries require a charging voltage of 14.2-14.6V. Consider upgrading to a converter designed specifically for LiFePO4, such as the PD9160AL or PD9170AL, or using the Victron Energy Blue Smart Charger to achieve full charging.

 

[MakeMePower]

Your PD9145AL converter may be limiting the charging voltage, resulting in only 13.35V. LiFePO4 batteries require a charging voltage of 14.2-14.6V. Consider upgrading to a converter designed specifically for LiFePO4, such as the PD9160AL or PD9170AL, or using the Victron Energy Blue Smart Charger to achieve full charging.

his converter is literally designed for Lithium. I use a 9145 for lead acid with the charge wizard. 0 issue with lifep04, the models you recommend are simply higher amperage units.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Your PD9145AL converter may be limiting the charging voltage, resulting in only 13.35V. LiFePO4 batteries require a charging voltage of 14.2-14.6V. Consider upgrading to a converter designed specifically for LiFePO4, such as the PD9160AL or PD9170AL, or using the Victron Energy Blue Smart Charger to achieve full charging.

Absolutely, positively complete BS. All of it, and you don't get points for mentioning Victron.

Stop spreading BS.

 

[AncientFossil]

Absolutely, positively complete BS. All of it, and you don't get points for mentioning Victron.

Stop spreading BS.

I swear some people here are sexually interested in Victron. They take criticism like it's a death sentence.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I swear some people here are sexually interested in Victron. They take criticism like it's a death sentence.

You clearly forgot you're talking to Papa Smurf - regularly rubbing myself up against blue all the time...

I'll be specific:

Your PD9145AL converter may be limiting the charging voltage, resulting in only 13.35V. LiFePO4 batteries require a charging voltage of 14.2-14.6V.

This is BS. LFP can be fully charged (or within about 1% at 13.6V).

The issue with converters, regardless if they're intended for lithium or not, is usually excessive voltage drop due to the crappy RV wiring and long run.

Certain installations may benefit from a converter that will hold peak voltage for longer, but many may do fine with a standard converter. If you already have one, try it before you replace it.

 

[AncientFossil]

Welp, we might argue, some, because I view Victron the way I view jewelry...trinkets. I'm a cheap, old bastard, though, and that might be part of it. Some of it is I'm a miniimalist. Some of it is Victron stuff is totally dependent on smartphones for the readout. I don't like that, I like the hard wired MT50 for My EPever CC.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

BTW, you might want to keep a roll of paper towels around...or an old sock. Just in case, ya know?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Welp, we might argue, some, because I view Victron the way I view jewelry...trinkets. I'm a cheap, old bastard, though, and that might be part of it. Some of it is I'm a miniimalist. Some of it is Victron stuff is totally dependent on smartphones for the readout. I don't like that, I like the hard wired MT50 for My EPever CC.

For me it's about having total monitoring and control from 3.5 hours away.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

We all have our proclivities.

BTW, you might want to keep a roll of paper towels around...or an old sock. Just in case, ya know.

Never leave anywhere without it.

 

[AncientFossil]

For me it's about having total monitoring and control from 3.5 hours away.

Sorry, I don't think about it that much. Sort of explains the need for a sock.

We all have our proclivities.

I'LL SAY!!!

Never leave anywhere without it.

Considering YOUR proclivities, I wouldn't think so