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diy solar

Whole home off-grid build

I'm looking to build an off-grid system to power our house and farm. My power company does not allow solar to be connected to the grid so we have no choice but to go completely off-grid. I currently have a sub panel with generator hook up in our barn just off the house. It back feeds my main panel in the house. I was going to run the solar the same way I do the gas generator and manually turn off my main grid breaker and back feed the home panel from my barn sub panel.

My average electric usage is 50kwh/day.

I was looking at the system from signature solar in the link below. I was thinking about running two of these systems. The cost seems to be the best bang for the buck. However, it appears the AC amp output of two 6000xp inverters is not enough to run the whole house. The only inverter I can find that would possibly handle the loads of a whole house is the Growatt 12000T. It looks like I would need two. However, reviews seem to be mixed on their reliability.


Any thoughts?
If you are going completely offgrid, I suppose you will have motor/induction loads that demand high surge current start. Most High Frequency inverteres only do 2x of rated power during surge. I installed an offgrid 3KW with a 9KW surge. It is a Low Frequency unit, which last 3-5x longer than HF inverters because HF don't take high surge kindly and thereby failed after a few years. Solartorrents.com was where i bought it and they also have a 6KW unit, which I presume is just as robust like their 3KW which I need to use with a well-pump and well-booster pump, plus three A/C 3-ton units. Most offgrid inverters need you do source and install your own DC Isolator on/off and AC switch, their inverters have them built-in, saving me time, money, effort, and space if i had to install them myself.
 
OK- I'm going to jump in and say (Ok, rant) , this ain't 1980! There are high frequency inverters that start motors just fine. We prove that every day with our little EG4 6000XP inverters and I'm sure many others exist that perform just as well.

Unlike a lot of the theorists who have read about problems and now repeat what they read, or those whose solar experience is from the last century, we actually live off grid in a home we built last year, with basically every modern convenience, and you know how often we have a problem with anything starting, or running correctly? Exactly never. And the only "low-load" thing we've done in terms of limiting motor start surge was to install a Grundfos SQ well pump (which is just a fantastic well pump, whether off-grid or not). Sure, most well pumps have a large start surge. So, if you end up having a huge problem (and most don't), then just replace it with a better well pump rather than design an entire off grid power system around one comparatively affordable motor. Everything else we or multiple contractors have had to use has been trouble-free.

When we were planning our off grid build, everybody and their brother told us about some problem we'd have, or something we wouldn't be able to do, or why we needed to buy [insert special thing they had read about but never used]. In the end, the only thing we did differently was the well pump, and if I were building an on-grid house, I'd now buy that model for it as well. Our other appliances and such were selected for reasonable energy efficiency but they're no different than the ones we would have purchased for a new on-grid build.

Like many things in life, if we had listened to the theorists and armchair experts, or people who hadn't stayed current with their knowledge, we'd have either stayed connected to the utility company's umbilical cord, or bought needlessly expensive equipment, or lived like we're camping. Instead, we live in a remarkably comfortable home, with every modern convenience we desire, running all sorts of tools and equipment with big surges from the motors at times, and just shake our heads and laugh at those who think doing this is "hard" or "inconvenient" or that it requires anything more than some time becoming educated and some common sense. Honestly, people, gaining some freedom from unexpected outages at inconvenient times, or equipment-damaging surges and brownouts, and a monthly charge to obtain something that literally falls from the sky for free if you'll just pick it up using easily-managed modern equipment, isn't nearly as hard as many people seem to think.
 
There is a high frequency inverter design that has surge capabilities like a low frequency unit, 7kW surging to 20kW. It's called a Midnite Rosie.

The 6000xp has very little surge beyond its rated capacity. Any large unbalanced load and its lights out. Large air compressors, chop saw etc. It is what it is, lot of output for low dollars.
 
The 6000xp has very little surge beyond its rated capacity.
Multiple inverters also solves this. At the 6000XP price point, you can have very sizable surge handling and redundancy should one go down. We've had a washer, dryer, hot water heater, electric oven, induction cook top, well pump, mini-split, chop saw, table saw, skill saws, and tool battery chargers all going at once (on top of regular loads such as computers and lighting and Starlink), and our 6000XPs haven't broken a good sweat. Granted, the appliances are all designed for energy efficiency, but they're all full-sized as well. This is just not as hard as too many people make it.
 
The 6000xp has very little surge beyond its rated capacity. Any large unbalanced load and its lights out. Large air compressors, chop saw etc. It is what it is, lot of output for low dollars.
Again this is rubbish.....for the following simple reason.
No, you cannot have a large imbalance between phases, L1 100w and L2 5900w
Yes, you can have a 6000w load between L1 and L2, 240v load.
Yes, surge capacity 12,000W for ≈3.5 seconds | 11,000W for ≈5 seconds - FROM THE MANUAL, not the HF hating interwebs "experts"
 
Like many things in life, if we had listened to the theorists and armchair experts, or people who hadn't stayed current with their knowledge, we'd have either stayed connected to the utility company's umbilical cord, or bought needlessly expensive equipment, or lived like we're camping. Instead, we live in a remarkably comfortable home, with every modern convenience we desire, running all sorts of tools and equipment with big surges from the motors at times, and just shake our heads and laugh at those who think doing this is "hard" or "inconvenient" or that it requires anything more than some time becoming educated and some common sense.
I am doing the same. :love:
 
Multiple inverters also solves this. At the 6000XP price point, you can have very sizable surge handling and redundancy should one go down. We've had a washer, dryer, hot water heater, electric oven, induction cook top, well pump, mini-split, chop saw, table saw, skill saws, and tool battery chargers all going at once (on top of regular loads such as computers and lighting and Starlink), and our 6000XPs haven't broken a good sweat. Granted, the appliances are all designed for energy efficiency, but they're all full-sized as well. This is just not as hard as too many people make it.
Yes with three 6000xp you should be all set.
 
Yes with three 6000xp you should be all set.
Straight-up, I'd get two 12000xp's before I got 3 6000's. Parallel mode has no automated redundancy, keep the box count and wires down. I think 12000 is also really an optimal output. 50A increments is ideal IMNSHO. Unless you only need one, go with the bigger boxes.
 
OK- I'm going to jump in and say (Ok, rant) , this ain't 1980! There are high frequency inverters that start motors just fine. We prove that every day with our little EG4 6000XP inverters and I'm sure many others exist that perform just as well.

Unlike a lot of the theorists who have read about problems and now repeat what they read, or those whose solar experience is from the last century, we actually live off grid in a home we built last year, with basically every modern convenience, and you know how often we have a problem with anything starting, or running correctly? Exactly never. And the only "low-load" thing we've done in terms of limiting motor start surge was to install a Grundfos SQ well pump (which is just a fantastic well pump, whether off-grid or not). Sure, most well pumps have a large start surge. So, if you end up having a huge problem (and most don't), then just replace it with a better well pump rather than design an entire off grid power system around one comparatively affordable motor. Everything else we or multiple contractors have had to use has been trouble-free.

When we were planning our off grid build, everybody and their brother told us about some problem we'd have, or something we wouldn't be able to do, or why we needed to buy [insert special thing they had read about but never used]. In the end, the only thing we did differently was the well pump, and if I were building an on-grid house, I'd now buy that model for it as well. Our other appliances and such were selected for reasonable energy efficiency but they're no different than the ones we would have purchased for a new on-grid build.

Like many things in life, if we had listened to the theorists and armchair experts, or people who hadn't stayed current with their knowledge, we'd have either stayed connected to the utility company's umbilical cord, or bought needlessly expensive equipment, or lived like we're camping. Instead, we live in a remarkably comfortable home, with every modern convenience we desire, running all sorts of tools and equipment with big surges from the motors at times, and just shake our heads and laugh at those who think doing this is "hard" or "inconvenient" or that it requires anything more than some time becoming educated and some common sense. Honestly, people, gaining some freedom from unexpected outages at inconvenient times, or equipment-damaging surges and brownouts, and a monthly charge to obtain something that literally falls from the sky for free if you'll just pick it up using easily-managed modern equipment, isn't nearly as hard as many people seem to think.
HF components degrade with each motor start, a slow death so you think it is working fine. This explains the statistical reality that LF outlast HF inverters by 3-5x. My Solartorrents LF offgrid inverter surge 3x rated power to 9kw starting well pump, booster pump, and 3 ton aircon like a champ. Most HF inverters would need add a SoftStart device to even start a 3 ton aircon.
 
HF components degrade with each motor start, a slow death so you think it is working fine. This explains the statistical reality that LF outlast HF inverters by 3-5x. My Solartorrents LF offgrid inverter surge 3x rated power to 9kw starting well pump, booster pump, and 3 ton aircon like a champ. Most HF inverters would need add a SoftStart device to even start a 3 ton aircon.
Receipts please, this is a troll without them.

My 18Kpv's will start the 5T, does blink the lights a little so I put the MicroAir on it anyway.

You claim this causes the inverters to die. Based on what study, or statstical data? If your gonna spew it, you need to back it up with something. . . According to the study published in ....

You claim a 'statistical' reality about expected lifetime. I'd like to see the statistics/study comparing (say) the working lifetime of a modern HF like a SolArk 15K or EG4 18K or the newer 10K SRNE's or Growatts to some LF unit. Oh, that's right the modern heavy duty HF's haven't been around long enough to start falling over yet, so you got nuthin to base the statement on. . . Most of the HF warranties are like 10 years or so.

"It remains to be seen if modern HF inverters will have as robust a lifetime as their LF brethren". True, but at the core it's mostly the control circuitry which generally has a 10-20 year life expectancy that is going to pretty much take either one down. I think SolArk has been around for 3+ years, if they were dropping dead like flies, you'd be hearing about it in this forum. For many of the early HF designs you could probably make a case, but many were just poorly engineered with flakey firmware and control components. Those HF components and designs that have not made the grade have all but disappeared from the market. I'd be willing to bet most of this stuff will still be in operation 15 years from now, unless something better comes along.
 
HF components degrade with each motor start, a slow death so you think it is working fine.
Well, I guess I degrade a little bit with each morning I get up, and pretty much everything on the planet is dying a slow death, so I'll be familiar with the situation. Assuming that slow death of the inverters is acceptably slow, I'll plan to replace those relatively inexpensive inverters one day, with something that's likley whiz-bang better than the original ones. And given that money has a time value, I'll do so using the return I made while the HF inverters were slowly dying, from the savings I achieved vs more expensive LF inverters. This is sounding better and better! A "free", future inverter upgrade. Awesome!
 
Mattb: I did but it seems like a lot more work, and a lot more money to do so. It was also more invasive with putting all the equipment in a very small pantry.

Sergio: The so-so days, I will flip back from the grid.

If the pantry is adjacent to living spaces, understand that inverter fans can make a lot of noise.
 

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