"Why America Doesn’t Really Make Solar Panels Anymore"
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Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
And yet the most OBVIOUS reason why America / The West fell behind is : All thanks to Big Oil/Gas/Coal (Big Fossil) pushing their products and spending 100's of millions supporting & pushing Climate Denial, Renewable Energy, Electicified Transport... For over 15 Years they have been actively campaigning against RE and all related tech as Big Fossil sees the threat it is to their sectors. ALL The while they have all been receiving 100's of BILLIONS of dollars worth of Subsidies, Tax Breaks and Incentives.
Meanwhile, both Japan & China saw a Huge Opportunity, presented on a Solid Gold Platter with Sector Protection, and like any "Normal Business Person" they Grabbed it and ran with it. The "Protection" ? The FUD (Fear Uncertainty & Doubt) throttled back the west's involvement & R&D development of RE Tech on scale. The entire Anti-RE thing was guaranteed protection which allowed the nations (Japan, China, Korea) to build up & out while improving products and gaining a Massive 10 Year Lead. Thanks to Big Fossil and those they manipulated.
China has cornered the market more or less not just on the Tech but the required resources to support its manufacture as well. Some are Angry as Hell about it and are crying all sorts of nonsense over it... Seriously, what business person would not secure the supplies needed to run their business ? BUT now the West is in a Panic and some Chicken Littles are clucking their heads off... Well DUH, Thank Big Fossil again. ALL the required minerals, elements, and Rare Earths (which are NOT actually RARE) are available in North America, Europe, and elsewhere, much has been identified BUT untouched (see FUD holding things back). BUT it takes at least 10 years to Identify, Start the process of assessment & evaluation, applications & reviews before a shovel is stuck in the ground IF Approved. FYI the FUDsters also have placed themselves into Environmental Groups / orgs to oppose all exploration & extraction for Renewable Energies, again to delay the transition).
Look at Australia for a second. #1 Lithium Exporter in the world by a Huge Margin !
- They export Raw Lithium to China (90% of which is waste), they collect an export fee per ton and as we all know shipping is not cheap.
- Why not restrict it & other resources to only Refined Product to be exported (not completed, just refined), Iron, Nickel etc as ingots as well.
- Shipping 1000 Tons of raw which you chuck 90% away or 1000 Tons of refined without waste being shipped across the world makes a lot more sense and is a huge cost saving too.
-- How many refining jobs an related spin off companies could have come online ?
-- How much Tax Income did the Oz Gov't toss aside from all the employees, companies etc that would have supported that ? (12 yrs worth at that) its obscene, don't think on it... AND YET OZ Poo-Poo's RE for a decade and only the past couple of years have started to wake up to RE. YET they kept & keep pushing COAL the Almighty Dead Clucker.
PS: China - a sticky point for some but consider this... so many rail against the "Commies" ahh the legacy Big Bad Nasty enemy, geez, coldwar stuff, so 1950's McCarthy-ism... Well consider that in 1980 most Chinese were Rural, farmers, mostly an agrarian state in fact. Their Government & people decided to industrialize and leap forward to join the rest of the world. There was but a Handful of "millionaires" (by Western Standards). LEAP FORWARD - Now they have more millionaires per capita than any other Nation. Lifestyle evolved into full Western Levels and even beyond in some cases. Opportunities & Possibilities are endless (like the west once was way back when) AND the risks that go with it too. Mighty Capitalist if you ask me.
Their Government versus ours: Which is better ?
HAHA we know that would elicit every reaction but stop for a second... Neither & Both !
The CCP tells you, you are not free, you are subject to their laws (so don't break'em) and they tell you what you can & cannot do. Businesses & Corporates DO NOT Dictate to the CCP, they have to abide by CCP's rules or face the consequences ! There are no 5 year long trials in China, no lawyer delays and games like in the west and they excecute criminals, poor peasants to millionaire corrupt execs, all same under the law there.
The West: Our Governments tell us we are free and do as we please (within the law of course). Everyone has a finger in the pie and can complain about anything and everything. Corporates & NGO's dictate & manipulate Governments with threats and other tactics (always threatening job losses etc) because they do not want to comply with the People At Large wishes the governments should enforce. Execs can defraud millions and spend 20 years playing the Court game while enriching their lawyers, meanwhile doing business as usual... and then get a pardon or get out of JailTime in the end anyways. Crime rates are High (US murder rate higher than some states at war), the US also has the Largest number of Prisoners per capita in the world... AND the self-entitlements and "special" status with Self-Righteousness (undeserved) - well we all know what that is causing, again evidenced with the Anti Vax Anti-Reality smack.
Tad bit of history.
Churches were a force majeur that had impact & effect on Governments, Kings/Queens through history which started to finally dissolve in the late 1700's BUT they continued to influence & manipulate and often to the detriment of the people. In 1776 the US Broke away from England and started with a new Charter & Constitution, most everyone knows that. BUT they did something Very Very Smart ! They included "Separation of Church & State" so that they could extract Church/Religion from being able to influence Governmental Policies & procedures which was an external intrusion into the affairs of the people (of all faiths). This then led other Nations to review that and many adopted a similar position over time with regards to Religious interference in Government affairs.
21st Century: Now Corporates & NGO's have filled Church's interfering roles in Governmental Affairs. Many politico's who are funded / supported by these Corporate entities have ensured their security into the meddling. Many Big Corps (like Exxon for example) have run Roughshod over not just the US Government but several others as well. They have instigated wars over Oil/Gas dominance & control (paid for by their Government and lives of their citizens). When the Gov says no and Big Corp does not agree, they will lobby, pressure & manipulate and then use every legal means & tactics to get what they want, usually accompanied by Job Loss Threats and Fear Mongering.
If what is written here upsets you, it's NOT intentional. Just think about it objectively.
Don't bash if you disagree but pleasant discourse is good.
The Bottom Line, The West is so far behind the 8 Ball is because of a select sector running interference using our own money (subsidies etc) to
delay progress as much as possible so they can Maximize their profits and maintain Dominant Control & Influence. IF you are upset at the consequences of Big Fossil throttling the West's advancement then do something about it, they are NOT looking out for YOU/Me only themselves and their own enrichment AT ANY COST !
BTW: a side observation, has anyone noticed that "The Big Bad" is because they are 10 years ahead of everyone else and only because of the Golden Opportunity on a Golden Platter with Guaranteed Protection. So the BooHoo, we missed out on an opportunity of a lifetime and now we feel bad that our own companies did this to us so now we will make the other guy the Big Villian of the Universe.... so tiresome, rinsed & repeated again...
Meanwhile, both Japan & China saw a Huge Opportunity, presented on a Solid Gold Platter with Sector Protection, and like any "Normal Business Person" they Grabbed it and ran with it. The "Protection" ? The FUD (Fear Uncertainty & Doubt) throttled back the west's involvement & R&D development of RE Tech on scale. The entire Anti-RE thing was guaranteed protection which allowed the nations (Japan, China, Korea) to build up & out while improving products and gaining a Massive 10 Year Lead. Thanks to Big Fossil and those they manipulated.
China has cornered the market more or less not just on the Tech but the required resources to support its manufacture as well. Some are Angry as Hell about it and are crying all sorts of nonsense over it... Seriously, what business person would not secure the supplies needed to run their business ? BUT now the West is in a Panic and some Chicken Littles are clucking their heads off... Well DUH, Thank Big Fossil again. ALL the required minerals, elements, and Rare Earths (which are NOT actually RARE) are available in North America, Europe, and elsewhere, much has been identified BUT untouched (see FUD holding things back). BUT it takes at least 10 years to Identify, Start the process of assessment & evaluation, applications & reviews before a shovel is stuck in the ground IF Approved. FYI the FUDsters also have placed themselves into Environmental Groups / orgs to oppose all exploration & extraction for Renewable Energies, again to delay the transition).
Look at Australia for a second. #1 Lithium Exporter in the world by a Huge Margin !
- They export Raw Lithium to China (90% of which is waste), they collect an export fee per ton and as we all know shipping is not cheap.
- Why not restrict it & other resources to only Refined Product to be exported (not completed, just refined), Iron, Nickel etc as ingots as well.
- Shipping 1000 Tons of raw which you chuck 90% away or 1000 Tons of refined without waste being shipped across the world makes a lot more sense and is a huge cost saving too.
-- How many refining jobs an related spin off companies could have come online ?
-- How much Tax Income did the Oz Gov't toss aside from all the employees, companies etc that would have supported that ? (12 yrs worth at that) its obscene, don't think on it... AND YET OZ Poo-Poo's RE for a decade and only the past couple of years have started to wake up to RE. YET they kept & keep pushing COAL the Almighty Dead Clucker.
PS: China - a sticky point for some but consider this... so many rail against the "Commies" ahh the legacy Big Bad Nasty enemy, geez, coldwar stuff, so 1950's McCarthy-ism... Well consider that in 1980 most Chinese were Rural, farmers, mostly an agrarian state in fact. Their Government & people decided to industrialize and leap forward to join the rest of the world. There was but a Handful of "millionaires" (by Western Standards). LEAP FORWARD - Now they have more millionaires per capita than any other Nation. Lifestyle evolved into full Western Levels and even beyond in some cases. Opportunities & Possibilities are endless (like the west once was way back when) AND the risks that go with it too. Mighty Capitalist if you ask me.
Their Government versus ours: Which is better ?
HAHA we know that would elicit every reaction but stop for a second... Neither & Both !
The CCP tells you, you are not free, you are subject to their laws (so don't break'em) and they tell you what you can & cannot do. Businesses & Corporates DO NOT Dictate to the CCP, they have to abide by CCP's rules or face the consequences ! There are no 5 year long trials in China, no lawyer delays and games like in the west and they excecute criminals, poor peasants to millionaire corrupt execs, all same under the law there.
The West: Our Governments tell us we are free and do as we please (within the law of course). Everyone has a finger in the pie and can complain about anything and everything. Corporates & NGO's dictate & manipulate Governments with threats and other tactics (always threatening job losses etc) because they do not want to comply with the People At Large wishes the governments should enforce. Execs can defraud millions and spend 20 years playing the Court game while enriching their lawyers, meanwhile doing business as usual... and then get a pardon or get out of JailTime in the end anyways. Crime rates are High (US murder rate higher than some states at war), the US also has the Largest number of Prisoners per capita in the world... AND the self-entitlements and "special" status with Self-Righteousness (undeserved) - well we all know what that is causing, again evidenced with the Anti Vax Anti-Reality smack.
Tad bit of history.
Churches were a force majeur that had impact & effect on Governments, Kings/Queens through history which started to finally dissolve in the late 1700's BUT they continued to influence & manipulate and often to the detriment of the people. In 1776 the US Broke away from England and started with a new Charter & Constitution, most everyone knows that. BUT they did something Very Very Smart ! They included "Separation of Church & State" so that they could extract Church/Religion from being able to influence Governmental Policies & procedures which was an external intrusion into the affairs of the people (of all faiths). This then led other Nations to review that and many adopted a similar position over time with regards to Religious interference in Government affairs.
21st Century: Now Corporates & NGO's have filled Church's interfering roles in Governmental Affairs. Many politico's who are funded / supported by these Corporate entities have ensured their security into the meddling. Many Big Corps (like Exxon for example) have run Roughshod over not just the US Government but several others as well. They have instigated wars over Oil/Gas dominance & control (paid for by their Government and lives of their citizens). When the Gov says no and Big Corp does not agree, they will lobby, pressure & manipulate and then use every legal means & tactics to get what they want, usually accompanied by Job Loss Threats and Fear Mongering.
If what is written here upsets you, it's NOT intentional. Just think about it objectively.
Don't bash if you disagree but pleasant discourse is good.
The Bottom Line, The West is so far behind the 8 Ball is because of a select sector running interference using our own money (subsidies etc) to
delay progress as much as possible so they can Maximize their profits and maintain Dominant Control & Influence. IF you are upset at the consequences of Big Fossil throttling the West's advancement then do something about it, they are NOT looking out for YOU/Me only themselves and their own enrichment AT ANY COST !
BTW: a side observation, has anyone noticed that "The Big Bad" is because they are 10 years ahead of everyone else and only because of the Golden Opportunity on a Golden Platter with Guaranteed Protection. So the BooHoo, we missed out on an opportunity of a lifetime and now we feel bad that our own companies did this to us so now we will make the other guy the Big Villian of the Universe.... so tiresome, rinsed & repeated again...
Man, I still remember back in the early-mid 70's the British Petroleum / Solarex panels. Not that I could afford one of any significant current! That relationship blew my mind.
Then again the whole NimH patent-encumbrance thing STILL gets my goat.
My trust was eroded long ago, and quickly saw that renewable energy is more of a sales marketing demographic rather than a real concerted implementation effort. Of course now the temptation is to "black box" everything, so that nothing like vehicle charge stations and so forth are all proprietary to their specific brand. Or at least that's what I sense the desire is for market domination.
Can you imagine having only gas-stations that are Chevy / Ford / Whatever specific?
I think that's where we are heading with solar - total proprietary black-box brand lock-ins. I hope someone will keep an eye out for that problem.
Then again the whole NimH patent-encumbrance thing STILL gets my goat.
My trust was eroded long ago, and quickly saw that renewable energy is more of a sales marketing demographic rather than a real concerted implementation effort. Of course now the temptation is to "black box" everything, so that nothing like vehicle charge stations and so forth are all proprietary to their specific brand. Or at least that's what I sense the desire is for market domination.
Can you imagine having only gas-stations that are Chevy / Ford / Whatever specific?
I think that's where we are heading with solar - total proprietary black-box brand lock-ins. I hope someone will keep an eye out for that problem.
carl2591
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2019
- Messages
- 77
to further steves post,,
it got kicked ahead when reagan got elected. the solar panels on white house installed during jimmy carter removed.. That sent a BIG signal that the then GOP was not interested in solar and the big oil folks saw the light and the efforts of their million plus dollar lobbyist saw success.
It wasn't till 17 yrs, yes 17 yrs later that George W. Bush had them installed back on the white house. Can you image how far we would be along with solar if the government had embraced the technology instead of rejecting it and reducing funding the dept responsible to pushing the technology.
Now the solar panels were not photoelec type that are so common today but solar water heating panels. (water was pumped through the panels and the sun would heat the water returning it to a holding tank much like a 80 gallon elec or gas heater) If more homes were fitted with them 20 plus years ago the need for more and more elec generation plants would be much lower.. as one of the three largest users of elec power are Water heating and Cooling and depending on the system heating.
it was a sad day for americans when the panels came down suppressed for "roof repairs".
www.sullivansolarpower.com
yaleclimateconnections.org
it got kicked ahead when reagan got elected. the solar panels on white house installed during jimmy carter removed.. That sent a BIG signal that the then GOP was not interested in solar and the big oil folks saw the light and the efforts of their million plus dollar lobbyist saw success.
It wasn't till 17 yrs, yes 17 yrs later that George W. Bush had them installed back on the white house. Can you image how far we would be along with solar if the government had embraced the technology instead of rejecting it and reducing funding the dept responsible to pushing the technology.
Now the solar panels were not photoelec type that are so common today but solar water heating panels. (water was pumped through the panels and the sun would heat the water returning it to a holding tank much like a 80 gallon elec or gas heater) If more homes were fitted with them 20 plus years ago the need for more and more elec generation plants would be much lower.. as one of the three largest users of elec power are Water heating and Cooling and depending on the system heating.
it was a sad day for americans when the panels came down suppressed for "roof repairs".
A History of Solar Energy at the White House | Sullivan Solar Power
Forty years ago, President Jimmy Carter became the first president who acknowledged the need for renewable energy by having 32 solar panels installed on the West Wing roof of the White House.
Jimmy Carter's Solar Panels: A Lost History That Haunts Today » Yale Climate Connections
Yale Climate Connections is a nonpartisan, multimedia service providing daily broadcast radio programming and original web-based reporting, commentary, and analysis on the issue of climate change.
yaleclimateconnections.org
