diy solar

diy solar

Why Bother!? $$$OffGrid$$$

AgroVenturesPeru

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Sep 19, 2020
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TL,DR:
Where I live, grid electricity based on our usage would cost us about S/1000 PEN (~$285 USD) per year. A decent solar system, on the other hand, is an investment of S/35,000 PEN – S/50,000 PEN. So we’re looking at anywhere from 35-50 years to recuperate the investment on solar. Solar technology is expensive down here, mostly due to customs fees on the imports. The grid has its fair share of blackouts, so maybe we’d be better served with a small, portable solar generator just for powering a refrigerator and small lights in a grid-down scenario? Are there other reasons I should get completely off-grid?



A little background:

I live in Peru, 6 degrees from the equator in the high jungle at 3000ft elevation. I was drawn to the romantic notion of living off-grid and not being dependent on anyone else (nevermind the dependence on chinese manufacturing and a global supply chain) to supply my family’s power needs at our small home. I really come from a mentality of SHTF, but even still I’m having a hard time swallowing reality.

BTW, does anyone know how a typical solar power system would hold up during a solar flare or electromagnetic pulse?

Our homesite is not bad for solar gain, as it is on top of a ridge, and the area around the house will be maintained as pasture and not forest. Most solar maps would put our area in the range of 4 -4.5 hours of sun per day. However we live at the foot of a large mountain range, and this causes many clouds to get trapped above us.

In the long rainy season (Oct-May) it is common not to have sun at all for 3-4 days in a row. I understand this could drop solar panel output down to 10-20% of capacity. Maybe the drop in production would be less though since we’re so close to the equator?

I also considered microhydroelectric, but alas our creek is too low head/low flow for that to make any sense.

Our expected usage is 10kwh/ day. Once in a blue moon we might exceed 10kwh, Usually we’ll use somewhere around 9kwh. So, here’s what I was thinking for components. Keep in mind I’m mostly at the mercy of what vendors sell down here, since importing this stuff is a royal pain. The vendors are able to still offer a lower price than if I find the same thing on Amazon and ship it with customs and duties down here myself. For this same reason, though, I could probably source the same system components for about $3,000USD less if I were in the USA.

8 -Peimar Monocrystalline 450w panels – S/7,078 PEN


3 -Narada 48NPFC100 48v 4.8kw LiFePo4 batteries – S/23,349 PEN


1 -Growatt SPF 5000TL HVM -48V/5000VA/5000W/80A MPPT/ 60A Charger -S/3,692 PEN


Total = S/34,119 PEN or about ~$9,748USD

This doesn’t include shipping to our remote location, other accessories (wires, fuses, mounting kits, etc.) and installation. I’m also not even certain the components match or are complete. Nor does it seem to me that this setup would meet our power needs after the second or third cloudy day. So, we’re looking at over $10,000USD. Before I started researching solar this was what I considered to be the upper end of my budget. I wouldn’t want to go any cheaper than this with Lead Acid batteries or anything along those lines. I could go with some better brands: Victron controller/inverter and Pylontech LiFePo4s, but that equivalent option would cost around $15,000USD.


Here’s where I’m a bit disillusioned, because I just can’t see how off-grid would make sense:


We live outside of a small village where the local electric company charges its customers S/0.30 PEN cents per kWh. We would need to run cable about 800m from the highway in a slightly buried tube to reach our house, but I’m sure it could be done for less than S/5,000 PEN.

Based on our usage, we’d have a bill anywhere from S/80 – S/90 per month (about $24USD), or about S/1000 per year.

Compare that with a S/35,000 – S/40,000 initial investment to get our off-grid solar system up and running.

So, you can see it would take AT LEAST 30 years to recuperate our off-grid solar investment. By then we would probably have a battery failure or two.

In this situation, how would you justify to your family taking a big portion of your life savings and purchasing an off-grid solar power system capable of meeting your family’s power needs? Is it just the romanticized whims of a prepper, or is there something I’m missing, and I should still plow forward with my original idea? Personally, I think it’s best to just admit I was wrong now that I’ve done my research. If I were in the USA, paying the national average of $110 per month in electricity and could source these components for ~$3000USD less, I wouldn’t skip a heartbeat to put in my system.

Is there another way, besides economics, that I could attempt to justify the off-grid solar system to my family?
 
I think you summed it up perfectly. Going off-grid doesn't make sense for most people. It sounds to me like you should identify your critical loads for if you do lose power for a few days, and just get a small backup system to manage that scenario. Going off-grid for the idea of it just doesn't often make sense. If your situation was different, unreliable or unobtainable grid, or extremely expensive, then it would be a different story. Just get a small system to provide refrigeration, communication, water, and lights, and you are good to go.
 
Off grid, or even solar itself, is not for everyone. It's only recently it even started to make sense on a wider scale. Give it time...
Also, off-grid doesn't necessarily mean cheaper.
 
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I'm sure solar panels and peripherals are just as sensitive to solar flares and emp as the electrical grid and it's peripherals.

The first step to going off grid is to eliminate as much electrical usage as possible. The only people I know that have done it successfully had to rethink their entire lifestyle and learn how to adapt. One of them also tapped into water power as well. But the key is using less electricity overall. Grid electricity is cheap and plentiful in most areas of the world, so there is little reason to switch to solar, which is more expensive and really not that efficient for high power usage.

It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how much you're willing to adapt.
 
I'm sure solar panels and peripherals are just as sensitive to solar flares and emp as the electrical grid and it's peripherals.

The first step to going off grid is to eliminate as much electrical usage as possible. The only people I know that have done it successfully had to rethink their entire lifestyle and learn how to adapt. One of them also tapped into water power as well. But the key is using less electricity overall. Grid electricity is cheap and plentiful in most areas of the world, so there is little reason to switch to solar, which is more expensive and really not that efficient for high power usage.

It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how much you're willing to adapt.
Honestly, for me it's mostly for the badge of honor.
 
There's so much waste in our lifestyles and in our products because electricity is so cheap. We tried not using any more electricity than absolutely needed for a month and our bill was $7. Simple things like incredibly inefficient appliances add up. You can make your fridge twice as efficient simply by insulating the outside. This is something that could easily be built into appliances, but why bother? For that matter, who needs a huge fridge? Remember root cellars? Giant, inefficient fridges are just part of the lifestyle that cheap power has created.

Start from the usage end and work backwards to the supply with a priority on efficiency and don't be afraid to think outside the box.
 
for example, to run copper from the power line pole closest to my property, it would be as much as my pv system cost that powers the entire ranch. The power company says it is my responsibility to pay that. Blackouts are commonplace for days at a time, in the peak of summer, when we reach130F.
It became my choice how to begin being way off grid. At the end of the day no one can 'turn me off' at any time nor lien on me for any reason. It is not a bad thing in any way to adapt yourself to how you feel comfortable. This may a spectacular turning point for a person for understanding the actual need for less in their lives. Do, 'you', and what you are comfortable with. I watched SolarQueen vids for at least a year or 2 before diving in.
 
Excellent analysis of your situation. If only everyone did the same. Going off grid often does not make financial sense. In my case it did due to the high cost of connecting to the grid.

I have to say though that it may still be worth it as there are other considerations than finances. In my case, reliability is better, I like being able to maintain my own system, it makes me really consider the power VS need of any new equipment I get and I like not being reliant on the grid. Even if I could get connected to the grid I wouldn't and consider every penny well spent.
 
Well said, going off-grid doesn't often make sense yet. Around 10% of electricity is generated by 440 nuclear power reactors worldwide.
 
On a ridge? wind? homemade (or get a local to make) savonius 40 gal drum generator(s) car alts or other local recon alternators?
 
I'm an off grid cabin and have a refrigerator, dishwasher, clothes washer and hot water. All powered by PV. My whole system cost less than than my wife's wine bill for three summers. She is in this members program and I can see the total each time I buy more. I can honestly say that I didn't piss my money away.
 
I am finishing up a critical loads panel run off solar with grid backup. This panel includes two refrigerators and my sump pump along with a number of other circuits.

Honestly I did it since I have an insatiable curiosity about how things work and I sincerely have enjoyed the challenge.

However, if this system saves us from a flooded basement one time during a storm power outage it will have paid for itself. If it saves a few freezer loads of food over time I see huge value there as well.

Value is in the eye of whoever chooses to spend money to build a solar powered system. I see economic and educational value in mine.
 
I would just have a generator for backup power then. Its much simplier.
 
Then you would go " gee, this city living' is shit" and go back to the bush!
You'd think that but you'd be wrong -We USED to have power, I've got power at the street, a brand new pole, service entrance, wiring and passed an electrical inspection, passed the inspection by the power company but the county has new maps that take their old map and overlay GIS onto it but off by 150 yards making my house in a river so they won't come to see we're not in a river or sign off that we can have power. I've tried everything short of suing them, and I would have done that but they have all 3 attorneys in this county on retainer. Even had my Congressperson Kamala Harris call and ask why a bunch of old sick people one of which is on life support can't buy electricity - that just made them MAD.

I always thought if power was available it was only between you and the power company - but I want to buy power, they want to sell it to me but the county says we aren't worthy. I've owned this property for over 25 years and it had power continuously since 1967 until I had a fire 3-1/2 years ago. Here we still are, nowhere else to go. I did think when I was putting in a $20k+ solar system - now what is the worst they can do to me once I get this all hooked up? Let me have power? So I made sure if that happened my system is capable of grid-tie.
 
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