Why DIY ?? Stop with Eve or Lishen or aluminium terminal cells without factory build stud/thread.

[Frank in Thailand]

Hi guys.

Serious question. Why.
I've been struggling for almost 1.5 years now with Eve and Lishen, and yes, learning a lot.

I now know a lot more then when I started and shared most of my learning curve.

Due my latest accident, I had no usable cells left
FIY, that's almost $6.000 worth, +50 kWh LiFePO4.

Fire (most likely) due selfdischarge from an Eve cell.

I reached out for a loan and purchased BYD cells pack 24v (S8) with BMS. Sets 260Ah, S16.
$1290 including transport and all tax paid.
Naturally, this can be Thailand only.
Or not.

Yes, in the 18 months a lot of price development, and product development.
It wasn't around back then.
It is now.
And people... Please.
When you see the quality..
How much will S16 280Ah Eve cost these days to the states?
Probably around $1250?

Watch and learn real quality:

Now that's a bus-bar.

Did you notice the "spring" shape?
Even a pack like this, prepared for thermal difference, and room to extend/contract without (much) force on the weld.

This is how it should be like.

Not our M6 nickel plated 2mm masive bus-bar.

TJ Solar made excellent BMS wire.
Nickel strips, to solder the BMS wires. Aluminium Rivets to make strong connection, and spot-weld for good contact.
Almost German engineering level.


Many things can be said about their choice of BMS location, on top.
It does work.


BMS wires between the 2 sets.





End result
(I need to clean up, nice picture will follow later)


Anyways..

With this day and night difference...
For same or perhaps even cheaper price.

What the F!!! Are we still buying Eve and Lishen??

Unless you need 12v or significant less then 260A ...
And yeah..
It's a bit more heavy, 60kg per box.

Just peanuts for the quality and safety you get in return.

I really wish there was this kind of high quality product available 18 months ago.
Compared to this..
Us playing with Eve bricks is just child's game.
We don't even come close....

 

[toms]

Good luck with your new batteries.

 

[chrisski]

How much will S16 280Ah Eve cost these days to the states?
Probably around $1250?

I paid $2400 with shipping to the states for 16 eve cells 280 ah. $400 was for shipping, with about #35 of that for Ali’s cut of the transaction to process my payment method.

 

[time2roll]

Is there a link to that battery? What is the warranty?

 

[Frank in Thailand]

https://shopee.co.th/product/35505682/6361658353?smtt=0.35507066-1617174463.9

Thailand warranty.
Or perhaps better, Asian warranty.

Known in USA as tail light warranty.
(Usually for second hand)

When I buy a printer here, the shop will place the cardridges, print out a test page and give the printer after receiving payment.
Any troubles after this, buy new.

I already asked TJ Solar to go international...

Perhaps you can contact him for direct sales..

BYD... Huge company, large player in EV market, perhaps twice the size as Tesla.

Where Tesla breeds race horses..
BYD does all the other ones..
Normal cars, busses, trucks, all types of EV transport.

And amazing quality.

Good thing of not being a race horse... No liquid cooling needed
And for solar..
We absolutely don't need to charge our battery in 30 minutes!

 

[chrisski]

I hope you keep us updated.

In Thailand you are putting this system to the test. High temps, high humidity, lots of rain.

If they last the test of time there, they’d be good for any hot environment. It will be hard to argue with that.

Seems like the last bank you have did not do so well, and I hope this lasts. Building a battery is a bit of work, and having a cheaper, reliable, pre-built option is a great idea.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Quite a bit I might add.

Doing a S4 or S8 setup..
That's not so bad
Try 80 cells...
5 X 16
And try 2* S16 280Ah
3* S16 152Ah.

Then "a bit if work" is a real understatement!

Seriously.
If anyone still wants / needs to build their own...

Use grubscrew, Loctite red+ primer and single string only.
That does mean 5* BMS for 80 cells.

The complexity increase at S16 for parallel..
troubles pinpointing the exact location where something goes wrong or even just compression of 32 cells....
it's absolutely not worth it!

The few bucks for additional BMS will safe weeks and weeks if time.

Also... When you buy your BMS, buy electronic torque wrench meter.
Applying equal amount of force and enough of it (not too little or too much) will save you loads of trouble.

With 4 or 8 cells...
It's not that hard.
48,64, 80... That's a whole different ballpark.

BYD is great. And, I really do wish I had this option 18 months ago.
It has been a struggle for 18 months.
Many smaller and bigger successes, learned a lot.
Have a pile of unused hardware leftover.
Spend more money then I wanted, anticipated or have.
Good times, good friends.
Some turned out to be not thrust worthy.
Others more then anyone could ask.
Quite an adventure, and happy to have made that journey.

Looking back..
If it would have been available and spend the Hundreds of hours on building our house instead of fiddling and tinkering with something that is NOT build to be used (abused) the way we do...
Even if it would have been 25% more expensive...
Totally worth it.

TJ Solar doesn't sent international.
I have a fried who works at an import/export company and he is looking into what paperwork would be needed to export.
I'm supposed to receive information in about a week.

I'm absolutely not looking to start a business, if I can help people to prevent my struggling road and start with the good stuff...
I will do my best
Anyone can see the price at TJ Shopee site
He does not give discounts and there is no affiliation.

If there are people interested, sent me PM, and I'll let you know if I can help and how.

 

[toms]

The BYD packs i have seen (BYD B-Box), derate a lot when the temperature is above 35’C. Try to keep these cells away from high ambient temperature if you can,

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I don't know the BYD B-Box.
Please do share this information background!!
I really like to know and learn.

To my knowledge, all LiFePO4 chemistry react the same and does fine where humans do fine also.
Same temperature range

Lead acid does 7 years @18c
5 at 25, 3 at 28, 2 at 30 and months at 35C.
On average.

LiFePO4 is OK with 35-40, but does prefer 25-30.

And that's good as that's the Temperature it has
In a shared "room" with our airconditioned bedroom.
Sucking the cool air from our bedroom, inverters and mining rig heat up, hot air gets blown out.

Batteries at floor level should never go above 30c

 

[toms]

BYD B-Box is a premade energy storage system, plenty of information online.

 

[JMc]

Good advice about DIY high-current batteries. It can be fun to indulge the tinkerer from time to time, but too often we re-invent the wheel and learn by making expensive mistakes in solving problems that others conquered long ago.

 

[k.neo]

Wow.
I don't get it.
Is that only for Thailand can it be shipped elsewhere?
Browsed the Shopee, 1.3kUsd for an assembled 260AH lifepo4 with housing and bms?
Where do I sign up?

 

[justlikethat]

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

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Any comments?

They also have battle born

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

Find quality Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters, Importers, Buyers, Wholesalers, Products and Trade Leads from our award-winning International Trade Site. Import & Export on alibaba.com

app.alibaba.com

 

[time2roll]

Wow.
I don't get it.
Is that only for Thailand can it be shipped elsewhere?
Browsed the Shopee, 1.3kUsd for an assembled 260AH lifepo4 with housing and bms?
Where do I sign up?

Maybe the OP needs to get into the business

 

[curiouscarbon]

BYD cells are amazing!! Those packs have liquid channels for active thermal regulation, right?! So awesome!! Supposed to be really well balanced nanophosphate pouch cells worthy for traction motive applications, just like you mentioned!

Good luck with the new cells. Excited to learn from the new generation build.

I recently build a peltier cooling module using 20x units of 40x40mm elements, heat sent to aluminum water block and aluminum radiator. Four layers of peltier five wide so 5P4S. It uses 75W and cold side is quite chilly.

One day hoping to have all my cells actively thermally regulated in an insulated enclosure. One day maybe even skilled enough to regulate entire pack to different temperature for charge vs discharge…

Good luck!

 

[Supervstech]

Are these byd sets NEW?
I have seen the used byd sets, heavy capacity lost.
If they are new, that is fantastic.
Extremely well made sets.

 

[Boondock Saint]

I recently build a peltier cooling module using 20x units of 40x40mm elements, heat sent to aluminum water block and aluminum radiator. Four layers of peltier five wide so 5P4S. It uses 75W and cold side is quite chilly.

I'd like to see your implementation and installation location. Have you posted these pics here in another thread?

Is your 75w switched w a thermistor or just ON all the time?



.

 

[curiouscarbon]

not posted working pics yet. don’t want to OT. will post thread when it’s integrated usefully. thank you for expressing interest. photo of unassembled WIP in this post

using h-bridge dc motor controller from pololu to drive 5 peltier in series (4x motor controller for 4x layer) and mcp9808 digital thermometer with arduino using programmed temperature control.

 

[justlikethat]

Need feedback regarding this battery please
https://m.alibaba.com/product/16002...06.wshop_pl.113.i6&wx_navbar_transparent=true

I have spoken with Felicity Solar and they said they the battle born cells are new. They just use their BMS and box. Can this be true for this price?
Thanks

 

[Frank in Thailand]

@toms
Yeah, BYD B-Box is wide available, and in comparison, high priced!
I could not find the information about the temperature degradation.
But I guess most LiFePO4 won't like that temperature rating long

@curiouscarbon
Where to you sign up?
Probably by PM me...

I asked the company that helped me import my mini excavator from China to look into the paperwork needed to export and what transport companies and costs would be involved.

I hope to receive information this week. (We lose a few days due Thai holiday)

I can't offer anything I don't receive.
I can show you what I have, and how it works.

Peltier cooling is around for a long time, and works, but not energy efficient.

You could use 2 large thick aluminium plates, stack a cell between it and have 2 peltier modules on each side.
(Cool side in)

This would only be needed in really high C rate usage. (Not solar)

If It it's about cooling the battery casing in tropical temperature environment....
Depending on space you want to cool (and amount of batteries)
Small: (like 4 cells in desert temperatures: pletier,
Bit bigger (2* S16) a simple refrigerator setup will work 10 times more efficient then peltier.
Large: airconditioning.

I haven't seen liquid cooling tubes possible for this type of pack. Most of the time not needed for EV, unless you build a race horses like Tesla. (They do look sexy!!)
Prius doesn't have/need liquid battery cooling..

As far as I can tell, they are LiFePO4.

@Supervstech
They are sold as new, but that doesn't tell much in Thailand

All I can see is that they are BYD, according to this sticker.

This one doesn't tell much more.

I can see that the probably have been installed..




But if this is a really bad thing?
I don't know.

Rainy season here, so I haven't been able to have the packs fully charged and top balanced.
Each 24v set is great, 2 different 24v packs to make 48v will have some individual SOC difference.

While best would have been to top charge each pack before assembly, living off grid during rain season does have its drawbacks.

The active balancer BMS will do its work and in a few weeks the few% in SOC will be sorted out.

Once fully charged, I can do a cycle and drain as far and fast as I can in the night.

(2000 watt oven with open door probably works great )

The 3 BMS have a shunt and I have shunts in place also.
Together it should be really accurate.

For now it does "feel like" 3* 260Ah, S16, probably more.

60kg, 120kg for 260Ah.
1*280Ah Eve is 5.5kg
16* 88kg, 32kg casing is a lot.
Sure, high quality materials, still...
It would not surprise me if the packs where original 300Ah, and have been in use for a year.
Probably busses. Even 24/7 usage, that would 1000-1500 cycles?
Worse case 3000?

Should still leave me with 3000 full cycles or 8-10 years.
Longer then I expected to do with the Eve cells.
BYD is known to really do their 6000 cycles and have 80% rest capacity after this.
degradation doesn't suddenly increase after reaching 80% but continue in the same pace.

Absolutely not all gold that flickering here!!
For me still (I think / hope) outstanding deal price / quality and time being able to use in solar setup.

@justlikethat
It looks like a nice set.
Price, yeah sure.
If my 260Ah BYD can $1300, after shipment and transport in Thailand..
Why would 200Ah not be $1500 in China before transport and tax?
It's not a strange price

If the product is any good, not just China DIY 200Ah eve cells in a nice box...
That I can not tell you.
They need to show you open units.
Take of the lid.
If they don't want to do...
You have your answer.

Batteborn is to my knowledge an American company that builds higher quality units from "our" standard cells.

That's no laser welding, no factory compression..
Abusing the cells out of specification but in a professional way.

Thousands of units are build this way, and with one time mount, grubscrew, Loctite red + Primer, OCD like clean, noalox or ox-guard, correct torque and aluminium Bus-bars....
With good enough compression from the casing...
Yeah, those units will last a long, long time.

Original developed for laser welded casing (under compression) and laser welded busbars.

This, and only this is how Eve and Lishen type cells (thin aluminium wall kind, no factory studs or strong thread) are designed to be used.

CalB cells..

You know the difference.
Those are designed/ build to be used as we use the Eve/ Lishen type.
It's really that simple.

If battleborn using their casing?
Perhaps.
Doesn't matter.
How they put the stuff together matters.

Personally I like BMS that tells me what is going on.
Not that I can (or want) to do much about it.
It gives me a (Falce?) Sence of control knowing individual cell voltages without running around with a multimeter