Why do so many people support social security? It's a scam

[Will Prowse]

It's robbing people of their hard earned money. First off, you're not getting the same value dollar that you put in. Adjusted for inflation, the real purchasing power of your social security deposits is reduced by the time you get it. Next, the cash accounts that hold social security deposits, are being devalued as we expand the money supply. Considering our deficit, supporting this program is not looking so good. Next, it is a Ponzi scheme by definition. It assumes that our workforce will be large enough and efficient enough to create enough GDP to run the program. If we have a population collapse or lack of immigration, the program would collapse.

Technically if you adjust for inflation it has already collapsed. Especially if you calculate CPI like we did in the '80s. Social security is screwing everybody financially.

Last point is that we used to not count social security as federal revenue. Now we do. We use this money to bomb other countries. We use it for running military bases overseas and other things we did not vote for.

Why do people think the government is responsible for people's financial decisions? When did Americans become so weak and pathetic that they need daddy government to make a piggy bank for them. I don't understand. I think it's so childish and pathetic that it shouldnt even exist in America.

 

[robby]

My parents each got a nice social security check up until they died. They paid into it for about 35 years and had enough money from SS for 30 years of retirement time.

 

[TK1979]

Last point is that we used to not count social security as federal revenue. Now we do. We use this money to bomb other countries. We use it for running military bases overseas and other things we did not vote for.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Mystery Man]

It's robbing people of their hard earned money. First off, you're not getting the same value dollar that you put in. Adjusted for inflation, the real purchasing power of your social security deposits is reduced by the time you get it. Next, the cash accounts that hold social security deposits, are being devalued as we expand the money supply. Considering our deficit, supporting this program is not looking so good. Next, it is a Ponzi scheme by definition. It assumes that our workforce will be large enough and efficient enough to create enough GDP to run the program. If we have a population collapse or lack of immigration, the program would collapse.

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme, it was a worth while program designed to help less fortunate people die with some dignity. Not be found on some street dead from lack of food and shelter. If the program had been properly managed it could have lasted longer and continue to help people. I agree it is a time for change, but those changes need to be made by people who care about others and not just themselves. I have no idea how to or if a new program should made to solve the original problem.

Technically if you adjust for inflation it has already collapsed. Especially if you calculate CPI like we did in the '80s. Social security is screwing everybody financially.

Last point is that we used to not count social security as federal revenue. Now we do. We use this money to bomb other countries. We use it for running military bases overseas and other things we did not vote for.

Why do people think the government is responsible for people's financial decisions? When did Americans become so weak and pathetic that they need daddy government to make a piggy bank for them. I don't understand. I think it's so childish and pathetic that it shouldnt even exist in America.

Live life another 35 years and experience the real world. Not that you will be old and need help later in life, but you will understand things are not as simple as you see them now. Hopefully you will understand how easily some are manipulated by the rich and powerful. Specifically how they create hate of fellow human beings.

P.S. Thank you for all the great information about solar you provide.

 

[timselectric]

It's a good program, if it had been managed properly, it wouldn't be in such a mess.
I don't know if it can be saved. But I have paid into it for 42 years, so far. And I hope that I can get some of my money back, before it's gone.

 

[teal95]

It meets the definition of a Ponzi scheme. The fact that the people that got the benefit (paid out without ever paying in) are long dead doesn't change this. And the vast majority of the boomers are getting far more out of it then they ever paid into it.

 

[going_commando]

Demographically speaking, it has to end within 20 years. When we millennials get to retirement age, the substantially smaller Gen Z and Gen A will not be able to pay for it. We are a bit under 3 people paying in for every 1 collecting, which doesn't work and is why the social security trust fund will be gone within 10 years. The math doesn't work unless you dramatically reduce benefits. A fun fact, in 1970, social security disbursements averaged about 25% of the median income. Now its 50%. Simple math says that 3 people paying 15% of their median income, can't pay 50% of the median income to someone else. Going after fraud can reduce the disbursements somewhat, but math is math. The only way you can make it work for the shorter term is to increase taxation to cover the short fall. Raising the payroll tax to 20% would cover it for a few years, and if wages go up that would help as well, but it still can't continue with the disbursements it currently gives when millennials retire.

I personally don't think it should exist in its current form. I would be for a tiered reduction in benefits. It wouldn't be fair to the boomers to just cut it off, or dramatically reduce their benefits, but we have to do something. Maybe a system where people 55 and older that still pay social security have increased payroll deductions to receive benefits as they are now, or continue paying the 15% and receive a lower disbursement. Offer a similar deal to people 45+, but with lower disbursements, and offer those under a certain age a buyout plan, where they would continue to pay in at a lower level and get a lump sum (say, $250,000) to invest in a private retirement account tax free, but receive no benefit when they retire. In any event, I think we millennials will have to take it on the chin, and pay for the sins of our fathers for perpetuating and worsening the system.

 

[Mattb4]

All I can say is a big "Thank you!" to all you younger folks that are paying my monthly SS benefit. Now get off my lawn.

 

[Sky-HHI]

I do not think we have a choice of paying in to SSA . I had to pay into SSA for over 45 years with the promise that I would get money after a certain retirement age. A system the government invented and mishandled. The problem is not the system but the lack of backbone in the US Congress to do what they were elected to do. The best thing for Congress is to not vote for incumbent and get new people in Congress that will change the system. Sorry for the rant, I have only had one cup of coffee so far this morning. Thanks Will for this web site and information you have helped spread around the world.

 

[Rmart30]

Because most don't have the willpower to save money and live on less than they make and save/invest for their own retirement.

 

[Will Prowse]

My parents each got a nice social security check up until they died. They pain into it for about 35 years and had enough money from SS for 30 years after retirement.

Adjusted for inflation, it robbed your parents

 

[Will Prowse]

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme, it was a worth while program designed to help less fortunate people die with some dignity. Not be found on some street dead from lack of food and shelter. If the program had been properly managed it could have lasted longer and continue to help people. I agree it is a time for change, but those changes need to be made by people who care about others and not just themselves. I have no idea how to or if a new program should made to solve the original problem.

Live life another 35 years and experience the real world. Not that you will be old and need help later in life, but you will understand things are not as simple as you see them now. Hopefully you will understand how easily some are manipulated by the rich and powerful. Specifically how they create hate of fellow human beings.

P.S. Thank you for all the great information about solar you provide.

It was not a worthwhile program when it was started and it's not a worthwhile program now. You lose your money's value when you put it into social security accounts. When it first came about people did not live long enough to even use the benefits.

The inflation adjustment is a joke as well. It doesn't actually keep up with inflation.

If people were not forced to pay into a safety net that is robbing them, they could actually save up money or invest it and be better off.

There is nothing American about having the federal government force people to invest in bonds. And then counting that as federal revenue? What a joke. We cannot vote to control the money supply either. That's why they established federal reserve.

No I don't need to live another 30 years to figure out basic economics look at how much the dollar has devalued and compare it to the payouts with social security. It is literally robbing you directly. Your purchasing power is being decreased. The inflation adjustments are a joke.

 

[Will Prowse]

It's a good program, if it had been managed properly, it wouldn't be in such a mess.
I don't know if it can be saved. But I have paid into it for 42 years, so far. And I hope that I can get some of my money back, before it's gone.

It wasn't a good program from day one. Most people paid into it and simply died. How is forcing people to invest how the government wants you to considered American? I will go to jail if I don't pay into social security. How is that American at all? I should have the choice to not have to pay into this. I don't need daddy government telling me how to invest my money.

And historically it's robbing people.

 

[Will Prowse]

Demographically speaking, it has to end within 20 years. When we millennials get to retirement age, the substantially smaller Gen Z and Gen A will not be able to pay for it. We are a bit under 3 people paying in for every 1 collecting, which doesn't work and is why the social security trust fund will be gone within 10 years. The math doesn't work unless you dramatically reduce benefits. A fun fact, in 1970, social security disbursements averaged about 25% of the median income. Now its 50%. Simple math says that 3 people paying 15% of their median income, can't pay 50% of the median income to someone else. Going after fraud can reduce the disbursements somewhat, but math is math. The only way you can make it work for the shorter term is to increase taxation to cover the short fall. Raising the payroll tax to 20% would cover it for a few years, and if wages go up that would help as well, but it still can't continue with the disbursements it currently gives when millennials retire.

I personally don't think it should exist in its current form. I would be for a tiered reduction in benefits. It wouldn't be fair to the boomers to just cut it off, or dramatically reduce their benefits, but we have to do something. Maybe a system where people 55 and older that still pay social security have increased payroll deductions to receive benefits as they are now, or continue paying the 15% and receive a lower disbursement. Offer a similar deal to people 45+, but with lower disbursements, and offer those under a certain age a buyout plan, where they would continue to pay in at a lower level and get a lump sum (say, $250,000) to invest in a private retirement account tax free, but receive no benefit when they retire. In any event, I think we millennials will have to take it on the chin, and pay for the sins of our fathers for perpetuating and worsening the system.

Good points. And I think it should be voluntary. We shouldn't have to be forced to pay into something we do not agree with.

 

[Will Prowse]

Because most don't have the willpower to save money and live on less than they make and save/invest for their own retirement.

Sounds like a communist argument to me. The government should not be our financial advisor. We should be responsible for our own savings and investments.

 

[Will Prowse]

I do not think we have a choice of paying in to SSA . I had to pay into SSA for over 45 years with the promise that I would get money after a certain retirement age. A system the government invented and mishandled. The problem is not the system but the lack of backbone in the US Congress to do what they were elected to do. The best thing for Congress is to not vote for incumbent and get new people in Congress that will change the system. Sorry for the rant, I have only had one cup of coffee so far this morning. Thanks Will for this web site and information you have helped spread around the world.

When you get that money back and it's at a reduced purchasing power, and they took money directly from you and what you did your whole life, how is that a benefit?

No problem!

 

[Will Prowse]

Every dollar that we are forced to give to the federal government is money that we cannot use for ourselves. Taxation does not solve federal funding issues. Especially with 900 military bases overseas and a massive interest payment on existing debt.

 

[timselectric]

Well, save yourself. It's too late for me. lol

 

[Danke]

It meets the definition of a Ponzi scheme. The fact that the people that got the benefit (paid out without ever paying in) are long dead doesn't change this. And the vast majority of the boomers are getting far more out of it then they ever paid into it.

Maybe very early "boomers" but not the vast majority. If one was to take the money confiscated by the government from their paychecks and instead had invested it, their monthly annuity would be much much larger. A teacher's group got a waiver to do that, and they receive three times as much.

 

[Danke]

I do not think we have a choice of paying in to SSA . I had to pay into SSA for over 45 years with the promise that I would get money after a certain retirement age. A system the government invented and mishandled. The problem is not the system but the lack of backbone in the US Congress to do what they were elected to do. The best thing for Congress is to not vote for incumbent and get new people in Congress that will change the system. Sorry for the rant, I have only had one cup of coffee so far this morning. Thanks Will for this web site and information you have helped spread around the world.

You want it well manage? Put all politicians and government employees on it for their pensions.

 

[Rmart30]

Sounds like a communist argument to me. The government should not be our financial advisor. We should be responsible for our own savings and investments.

Not saying I agree with SS at all or support it, but my comment is why most support it.
Im about as far right leaning as can get and have followed the basic Dave Ramsey line of financial thinking for the last 30 years.
Thats why I was pointing out most people are weak minded and dont have the will power to do for themselves what they should be doing as far as their retirement. Didnt say social security was a good thing.
We have people driving $50k+ cars, buying new every 3-4 years, wearing high $ fashion clothes, spending $500 a month to get their nails and hair done, but living paycheck to paycheck and not putting a dime back.
I dont think social security should exist at all. Leave my paycheck alone and let me invest what is taken out for social security and i would be a happy multimillionaire after retiring from a average 40 yr career.

 

[D71]

The Politicians managing SS are multi-millionaires or billionaires from taxpayer fund kick back robbery and lobby. You will never touch them now with their immunities and insider trading to boot. The Politicians were allowed to rob SS. Kinda why it was setup and designed whereas they never expected ppl to live long after retirements to collect thus forfeit money to govt. Why retirement ages were adjusted ro older age group. Get ppl to die so as not collect as much if any. Why the Govt doesn't care about ppl's health either. Why Reagan increased govt pull from ppl paying into SS as a requirement. SS and Medicare is and has been Govt extortion where most corporations work in partnerships to collect taxes and such from workers for govt.

The SS went into a surplus of govt funds vs staying untouched for SS. It got robbed away. Most ppl die before getting their money. The Govt got to keep it and steal it from so-named Govt Fund. Several Presidents have robbed from it. Do some looking.

The RICH Taxpayers like Musk and what not for Elite just want their big tax breaks and will get them however and by whatever means necessary. Whole point behind Doge saves $1 Trillion for public show but cut $4 to $5 trillion in taxes over next 10 years. HAHAHA damn. Look it up.

As someone pointed out Some ppl have no self-discipline so must be taken care of by Big Brother Govt. However, the rules should be applied only those that paid into SS vs treating it like welfare.

SSI and Medicaid are straight up welfare.

What is required to fix these problems are well known but now basically illegal to say. The Govt has written Protectionism in for itself, and it will feed itself to survive. The Police are the Standing Army that the Founding Fathers warned ppl about. Look at how they have become militarized.

 

[WorldwideDave]

It's robbing people of their hard earned money. First off, you're not getting the same value dollar that you put in. Adjusted for inflation, the real purchasing power of your social security deposits is reduced by the time you get it. Next, the cash accounts that hold social security deposits, are being devalued as we expand the money supply. Considering our deficit, supporting this program is not looking so good. Next, it is a Ponzi scheme by definition. It assumes that our workforce will be large enough and efficient enough to create enough GDP to run the program. If we have a population collapse or lack of immigration, the program would collapse.

Technically if you adjust for inflation it has already collapsed. Especially if you calculate CPI like we did in the '80s. Social security is screwing everybody financially.

Last point is that we used to not count social security as federal revenue. Now we do. We use this money to bomb other countries. We use it for running military bases overseas and other things we did not vote for.

Why do people think the government is responsible for people's financial decisions? When did Americans become so weak and pathetic that they need daddy government to make a piggy bank for them. I don't understand. I think it's so childish and pathetic that it shouldnt even exist in America.

Will - my parents were humble school teachers. My dad paid into social security and a pension plan for 35 years. He makes more in retirement than he did when employed. He worked for very little money to be blessed with a lot more of it when he retired. I'm thankful for that, but yes, it is mostly the pension that he is benefiting from while he's alive. I think when he dies, if my mom is still alive, the pension rolls over to her. If she dies first, the money is just gone and stays with the pension provider. I think that for my dad's social security, if he were to die before my mother, I don't think that still goes to my mom once he dies. Not sure.

My mom on the other hand, also a school teacher, had a union that for some how, some way, was able to NOT pay into social security, but she had a pension only. While you may think this sounds cool to not pay social security, she had a stroke, is paralized, and was forced into retirement 15 years too early. So she worked for rice and beans as a teacher for 21 years, had a stroke, the union forced her to retire early after paying her medical bills for a year, and she lives ONLY off a pension. The pension is structured in such that if you don't pay into it for the full 30+ years, you get a percentage of what you would have gotten had you stayed in the job. Well she was paralized in a wheelchair, could not teach if she wanted to, and got 30% of what her pension was going to be. So she worked her ass off for 21 years, was paid peanuts, didn't pay into social security, qualifies for zero disability benefit from federal government, and only has 30% of what she was supposed to earn from her pension. She got screwed over by the union, screwed over by the pension, and has no social security as a backup for this emergency situation.

So while I agree with most of what you're saying about social security, even if it is broken, going broke, etc., it does have some value.

Don't worry about my mom's situation...I am a high income earner, and wife and I help how we can. She received years of physical therapy out of pocket to the point where she could get herself around unassisted and independent. She earned some money doing student teaching where she assists new teachers in understanding the job/stress for 10 years or so before having another stroke. If it weren't for the cheap house she bought going up so high in value (so cal), she wouldn't be able to take out a second mortgage to pay for all the medical bills to keep her alive and mobile.

Long answer, but social security isn't all bad. It would have at least provided her some income once she hit 59 1/2. She's lived 14 years past that with zero social security income. Thankfully wife and I both worked and can buy groceries and stuff. Not everyone is so lucky.

 

[Will Prowse]

Will - my parents were humble school teachers. My dad paid into social security and a pension plan for 35 years. He makes more in retirement than he did when employed. He worked for very little money to be blessed with a lot more of it when he retired. I'm thankful for that, but yes, it is mostly the pension that he is benefiting from while he's alive. I think when he dies, if my mom is still alive, the pension rolls over to her. If she dies first, the money is just gone and stays with the pension provider. Similar to Social Security.

My mom on the other hand, also a school teacher, had a union that for some how, some way, was able to NOT pay into social security, but she had a pension only. While you may think this sounds cool to not pay social security, she had a stroke, is paralized, and was forced into retirement 15 years too early. So she worked for rice and beans as a teacher for 21 years, had a stroke, the union forced her to retire early after paying her medical bills for a year, and she lives ONLY off a pension. The pension is structured in such that if you don't pay into it for the full 30+ years, you get a percentage of what you would have gotten had you stayed in the job. Well she was paralized in a wheelchair, could not teach if she wanted to, and got 30% of what her pension was going to be. So she worked her ass off for 21 years, was paid peanuts, didn't pay into social security, qualifies for zero disability benefit from federal government, and only has 30% of what she was supposed to earn from her pension. She got screwed over by the union, screwed over by the pension, and has no social security as a backup for this emergency situation.

So while I agree with most of what you're saying about social security, even if it is broken, going broke, etc., it does have some value.

Don't worry about my mom's situation...I am a high income earner, and wife and I help how we can. She received years of physical therapy out of pocket to the point where she could get herself around unassisted and independent. She earned some money doing student teaching where she assists new teachers in understanding the job/stress for 10 years or so before having another stroke. If it weren't for the cheap house she bought going up so high in value (so cal), she wouldn't be able to take out a second mortgage to pay for all the medical bills to keep her alive and mobile.

Long answer, but social security isn't all bad. It would have at least provided her some income once she hit 59 1/2. She's lived 14 years past that with zero income. Thankfully wife and I both worked and can buy groceries and stuff. Not everyone is so lucky.

They spent your dad's money killing millions of people in Iraq and over throwing governments. Now they are paying for it with devalued dollars created from thin air. That's essentially how it's funded.

 

[WorldwideDave]

They spent your dad's money killing millions of people in Iraq and over throwing governments. Now they are paying for it with devalued dollars created from thin air. That's essentially how it's funded.

May be true and an evil use of the funds. Not disagreeing with you. I have watched our government print its own money and switch from the 'gold standard' during my lifetime long enough to know that social security will always exist and be backed by our government because we just PRINT OUR OWN MONEY.