"Why I think it is illogical to purchase an electric truck"

[eXodus]

Lets have a discussion here

While I agree with many of @Will Prowse points in the Video about what a Truck should be used for.
Most people don't use them the intended way:

Most Truck Owners Probably Don't Need a Full-Size Pickup

Americans love their full-size pickup trucks, but do they actually use them?

www.motorbiscuit.com

"from 250,000 persons, 75% of truck owners use their truck to tow about once a year and just 35% of owners actually haul something more than once a year. "

Lets phrase it that way, electric trucks are great for people which don't user their truck as a truck. Which are the vast majority of private truck owners.

I've Pre-Ordered the F150 Lightning during the presentation when they started showing the Bi-directional support for powering a house.
I did the math - and with tax and local incentives I can get a the 98kWh in the lightning for roughly $400-450 per kWh. - compare this with Server-Racks which are in the $300s for 1 kWH + Inverters you end up very close to the the $400/kwH - so buying the truck - just as Giant Battery Backup - was a no brainer to me.

I got a Gas-Pickup - and every time I drive it - something is in the bed or a trailer is behind it - but I don't drive far the truck mostly sits and gets 3-4k miles a year. I got an ancient cheap Motorhome which is far more comfortable for longer trips.

Lets get ready to rumble:
interested in your opinions about EV-Trucks - what use-case do they makes sense? For me it's great huge battery with enough truck capability.

 

[LeoThomson]

I never saw the need for a truck, regardless if it was ICE or electric , to your point, whenever I visit North America, I am amazed by the number of trucks on the road I rarely see a truck used as intended, but that might well be different in rural areas. I sometimes wonder if many people need a big truck to compensate for something that bothers them.

I also believe that the switch to electric will come because it will be significantly cheaper over the lifetime of the vehicle to own and use electric and has little to do with environmental concerns. Although they might have to add "vroom-vroom" sound effects for a small/large? segment of the population.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I use my 3/4 Ton truck to haul something at least twice a week, and tow a 10,000lb trailer with some large or heavy load at least once a week.

I think that most drive big trucks to make up for small self esteem, which kind of explains some of the political anger and other behaviors we see.

 

[eXodus]

Although they might have to add "vroom-vroom" sound effects for a small/large? segment of the population.

BMW iX does a great job with adding sound effects while accelerating through the amazing speaker system

 

[NEpowerandlight]

I sometimes wonder if many people need a big truck to compensate for something that bothers them.

 

[eXodus]

sounds like Florida

People don't have space in Garages in Florida, there is no basement, it floods here every couple of years and thanks to everyone driving big ICE trucks, it will be flooding even more with climate change rapidly accelerating.

As many as 350,000 cars damaged by Hurricane Ian

For the past few weeks, Legendary Automotive & Truck Service in Fort Myers has been busy inspecting vehicles damaged by Hurricane Ian.

nbc-2.com

Why you want a electric car/Truck with Backup Power capability:

Ford F-150 Lightning Powers Florida Man's Cooking, Lights, Fridge, Entertainment During Hurricane Ian

The Ford F-150 Lightning has just barely arrived on the market, yet I've already heard a few stories of the Lightning powering people's needs in the event of power outages. The first I heard about

cleantechnica.com

 

[svetz]

Saying there's only one way to use trucks is like saying there is only the missionary position. My thinking is people can do whatever the hell they want if it makes them happy and no one should tell them their business unless it hurts someone else (e.g., global warming).
So, do what you want, but please do it in an xEV ; -)

 

[svetz]

Will likes his ICE truck, I get it.
But EV trucks do make sense and the towing argument was silly. EVs are generally superior in towing: e.g., Tesla Cybertruck pulls F-150 uphill torque-wise. But, in other ways too...

For example, the Cybertruck gets about half the range, but it's still 125 miles at 14,000 lbs. What does an F150 get towing 14k? 6 mpg? With it's 23 gallon tank, that's 138 miles and at $4/gal it's $92 to refill vs free solar.

 

[eXodus]

Saying there's only one way to use trucks is like saying there is only the missionary position.

hehe, I think Pickups are like multitools. They are pretty good a many things, but not the best at any one of them.
An electric truck is just a different multitool, Like comparing a Swiss Army Knife with a Leatherman.

There is always another class of vehicle which is better as a pickup at any specific discipline. But the versatility of a truck what makes them useful.

A jeep is better offroad, a SUV/Van is better in carrying people, a Isuzu NPR / Mitsubishi FUSO is the better work truck for off-road.

But EV trucks do make sense and the towing argument was silly. EVs are generally superior in towing

I agree, EVs are amazing in towing, would love a serial hybrid (Generator, Hydrogen, Nuclear Battery - whatever) to extend the range and recharge while being parked and driving.

 

[MattiFin]

Will likes his ICE truck, I get it.
But EV trucks do make sense and the towing argument was silly. EVs are generally superior in towing: e.g., Tesla Cybertruck pulls F-150 uphill torque-wise. But, in other ways too...

For example, the Cybertruck gets about half the range, but it's still 125 miles at 14,000 lbs. What does an F150 get towing 14k? 6 mpg? With it's 23 gallon tank, that's 138 miles and at $4/gal it's $92 to refill vs free solar.

Sounds like really high consumption but there might be a reason why nobody else than US-people uses F150 to transport anything, anywhere.

For comparison fully loaded 133k GWW semi-trailer is around 6 mpg in good conditions and smaller 88k GWW eurotrucks archieve 9.5 mpg

 

[NEpowerandlight]

Germany’s Federal Network Agency, a watchdog that regulates electricity and gas in the country, said the plan would allow the power grid operators to remotely limit people’s use of heat pumps and electric car chargers next winter without the user’s consent.

Strom drosseln für Wärmepumpen und E-Autos? Der brisante Plan der Netzagentur - WELT

Wärmepumpen und E-Autos könnten das Stromnetz bald überlasten. Die Betreiber sollen deshalb künftig den Verbrauch drosseln können, und das auch ohne Zustimmung der Besitzer. Die Pläne sind schon recht konkret. Die Autobranche ist alarmiert.

www.welt.de

 

[eXodus]

Sounds like really high consumption but there might be a reason why nobody else than US-people uses F150 to transport anything, anywhere

fuel especially gasoline is subsidized in many countries. https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies

Subsidies are distorting the market and give people a wrong signals to what is cheap and what is not.
The true cost of Gasoline is much higher then the price you pay at the pump:

The True Cost of Gasoline: $15 Per Gallon | Smart Cities Dive

Smart Cities

www.smartcitiesdive.com

There is Use-Case for fossil fuel - long distance and maybe air-travel - it is a very energy dense storage medium. But shouldn't be used for commuting within cities.

Germany’s Federal Network Agency, a watchdog that regulates electricity and gas in the country, said the plan would allow the power grid operators to remotely limit people’s use of heat pumps and electric car chargers next winter without the user’s consent.

nothing wrong about limiting. Florida's Power company FPL does that with A/C units since years. It just limits the use in peak hours. Nothing you would ever notice when going about your day. Your house is a thermal battery- you can go pre - cool/heat before the peak hours about 1-2 degree and then coast for a couple of hours without impact on comfort.

Your car doesn't need to charge full speed when you get home and also turn on the oven and the Plasma TV. You need it full the next day. No problem. Germany will have the guidelines laid out, so that people know what to expect, Powergrid in Germany is more stable then in the US, protecting stability it has higher priority then the individual wanting to charge super fast at home. Which in most cases is not necessary and even hurt the battery of the car.

 

[LeoThomson]

Germany’s Federal Network Agency, a watchdog that regulates electricity and gas in the country, said the plan would allow the power grid operators to remotely limit people’s use of heat pumps and electric car chargers next winter without the user’s consent.

From Google translate "The plans are quite concrete: the network operators should be able to throttle the so-called controllable consumption devices, as the officials call heat pumps and wallboxes, to 3.7 kilowatts. Although nobody should be completely disconnected, it would then take much longer to charge your own electric car. According to the Federal Network Agency, it would then take three hours to recharge a range of 50 kilometers. And: There should not be a limit to how long or how often such a throttling can be carried out. The Federal Network Agency says there is no other way. Although a "prompt and forward-looking upgrading of the distribution grids" is essential, in the meantime it must be ensured that "power failures due to equipment overload" do not occur.

After all, network expansion will hardly be able to keep up with the pace at which electric cars and heat pumps are spreading in the coming years. The Federal Network Agency fears that if the compulsory throttling of the controllable consumers were not introduced, further private charging stations could be rejected by the network operators or even existing systems could be switched off. So far, many wall box and heat pump owners have already made arrangements with their suppliers that provide for throttling at peak times - albeit voluntarily. From January 1, 2024, however, there will no longer be a choice, and all owners and network operators will then be obliged to comply with the new rules - without exception. However, the planned specifications cannot be implemented that quickly. Because the Federal Network Agency actually only wants to allow what is known as "dynamic control". The authority understands this to mean that throttles are only applied to that part of the network that is actually reaching its load limit at that precise point in time. But there is simply a lack of the necessary measurement technology."

This is better than brownouts.

In the past the grid was managed by switching water heaters and storage heaters remotely. I am old enough to remember the loud "clunk" each time the relay switched. We never ran out of hot water though and while I don't have a problem with the remote control, I would prefer if I could charge (and even supply) based on the price of electricity. If I am in a hurry, pay more for charging my car, if I wasn't, allow the car to discharge on the net if the price was to my liking.

 

[Scott SD]

Will likes his ICE truck, I get it.
But EV trucks do make sense and the towing argument was silly. EVs are generally superior in towing: e.g., Tesla Cybertruck pulls F-150 uphill torque-wise. But, in other ways too...

For example, the Cybertruck gets about half the range, but it's still 125 miles at 14,000 lbs. What does an F150 get towing 14k? 6 mpg? With it's 23 gallon tank, that's 138 miles and at $4/gal it's $92 to refill vs free solar.

My F150 has a 36 gallon tank, gets about 20 unloaded. I can stretch it out to get 750 miles on one tank driving down the baja. Towing my loaded toy hauler over the mountains it gets about 11. Last year we were coming back from the desert and had substantial 30-40mph headwinds, mileage dropped to 6, best case. No way the cybertruck would have made it up the mountain. I will stick with an ICE truck because I use it as a truck. For most local commutes, we maximize our Escape PHEV, which has averaged 125mpg. Life is a balance.

 

[svetz]

...No way the cybertruck would have made it up the mountain. I will stick with an ICE truck ...

If the cybertruck has better torque, better towing capacity and nearly equal range, then it would certainly make it up the mountain. If seeing is believing, look at the earlier video of the cyber truck owning an F150 as it pulls it ... uphill.

 

[MurphyGuy]

My F150 has a 36 gallon tank, gets about 20 unloaded. I can stretch it out to get 750 miles on one tank driving down the baja. Towing my loaded toy hauler over the mountains it gets about 11. Last year we were coming back from the desert and had substantial 30-40mph headwinds, mileage dropped to 6, best case. No way the cybertruck would have made it up the mountain. I will stick with an ICE truck because I use it as a truck. For most local commutes, we maximize our Escape PHEV, which has averaged 125mpg. Life is a balance.

Not all the electric trucks so far available will suffice for those who use their pickups for heavy duty applications. Towing anything up a mountain certainly falls under the "heavy duty" category.

I think its fair to say that 90% of pickup truck owners do not use their vehicles like you and I and tow or haul heavy loads, most purchase big trucks to compensate for some self esteem issues.

That said, hang on to your panties, a new motor is coming out that is a huge breakthrough in electric motor technology and its going to change things concerning EV's. They are already putting them in new vehicles.

 

[Scott SD]

If the cybertruck has better torque, better towing capacity and nearly equal range, then it would certainly make it up the mountain. If seeing is believing, look at the earlier video of the cyber truck owning an F150 as it pulls it ... uphill.

It would make it up the mountain if it had a full charge. For us, a desert trip is 220 miles round trip. No services out in the desert, so charging is impossible. We had the high winds on the return, and I would never want to have range anxiety when towing 10k lbs. in challenging weather. The Cybertruck will work for a lot of people, but not for guys that really use their trucks.

Going down the baja peninsula is another thing where gas is difficult to find in some places and absolutely no charging available for a giga-battery.

 

[eXodus]

My F150 has a 36 gallon tank, gets about 20 unloaded. I can stretch it out to get 750 miles on one tank driving down the baja. Towing my loaded toy hauler over the mountains it gets about 11.

My RV has a 40 Gallon Tank and gets around 10mpg - I get serious range anxiety with that thing - all the time.

and I travel primary in the highly populated East-Coast and Florida- today I came back from a trip and was driving down the center of the state - three hours without a single gas station which was still open. They either had been destroyed by the hurricanes or bankrupted by the loss of population.

I could get power, there are free EV chargers in practically every tourist information and - but gas is nowhere to be found.
We are seeing a shift here - at some point - Gas Station decline will reach a tipping point and force people to EVs.

Rural areas will see that paradox as the first ones - those which would need a fuel the most - will not have access to it as the first.
City folks will have 4 gas stations in every interchange - but in low traffic countryside - nope you going to drive a EV-Truck sooner as you like. Or install a self pump Gas-Station in your backyard.

 

[MattiFin]

If the cybertruck has better torque, better towing capacity and nearly equal range, then it would certainly make it up the mountain. If seeing is believing, look at the earlier video of the cyber truck owning an F150 as it pulls it ... uphill.

Better torque and better towing capacity are possible but I don't see range getting anywhere close under heavy load. (when you put the house-sized trailer behind)
On light load efficiency sucks but gasoline engines efficiency improves by leaps when the load gets to somewhere 50-80% of maximum torque.
Ford's gasoline V6 turbo gets around 250g/kWh BSFC over a quite wide proportion of upper load range.
250g/kWh and 36 gallon tank translates to 400kWh energy out of the engine. Transmission loses some of that but modern 10-speed transmissions are quite efficient.
Cybertruck on the other hand is supposed to have 120kWh battery on the AWD model.
I'd be suprised if it has over 90 miles of range with the same monster trailer that drops F150 to 6mpg.

 

[Scott SD]

Better torque and better towing capacity are possible but I don't see range getting anywhere close under heavy load. (when you put the house-sized trailer behind)
On light load efficiency sucks but gasoline engines efficiency improves by leaps when the load gets to somewhere 50-80% of maximum torque.
Ford's gasoline V6 turbo gets around 250g/kWh BSFC over a quite wide proportion of upper load range.
250g/kWh and 36 gallon tank translates to 400kWh energy out of the engine. Transmission loses some of that but modern 10-speed transmissions are quite efficient.
Cybertruck on the other hand is supposed to have 120kWh battery on the AWD model.
I'd be suprised if it has over 90 miles of range with the same monster trailer that drops F150 to 6mpg.

It isn’t just the trailer size, because it will average 12mpg on a level freeway. Add a mountain or gale force winds and it drops significantly. Our PHEV is the same and the EV range gets cut it half climbing hills. Someday battery technology will get there. EVs make sense for most folks for at least one vehicle in the family, we drive our PHEV a lot.