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Why in the heck is there not a Lifepo4 cell manufacturer in the USA?

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Decade(s?) ago I nearly invested in a US company that made LiFeP04 batteries in military formats. Billed as a safe battery, the video of theirs vs typical taking a bullet was impressive. Only thing missing was a capacity comparison. Sometimes what is not being said is more important.
 
Not to mention the hundreds of coal mine spoils ponds that litter the country. They are sometimes referred to as a boney pile, culm bank, gob pile, waste tip or bing. Lately the EPA has shown little interest in cleaning of those.

Yeah, Australia's EPA has required mine operators to have a completely funded mitigation and long term closure plan up to a decade in advance. Can't even get a mining license without a comprehensive plan which includes funding.

Thankfully the LFP tech is easily recycled, as it contains no heavy metals, the batteries themselves are fairly low risk. Major components are a hydrocarbon electrolyte, iron phosphate ceramic, and graphite. There is also aluminum and copper, but they can separated fairly readily. Now the cobalt and Nickle Li-ion chemistries are another matter, as both are very durable and toxic, and are not readily mechanically separated from the base electrode material.

The manufacture does use some nasty chemicals, but my understanding is that they can be recovered and neutralized/recycled for reasonable costs.
 
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The Chinese Gov dumped huge amounts of money into LFP cells through subsidies on certain electric vehicles.
Some of those subsidies were in the form of support for research and development. We often only hear of Chinese stealing technology and that is certainly true.
However my opinion is that focusing on IP theft masks the strategic moves they made to improve manufacturing processes which gave them the competitive advantage they have. With the rise of their middle class, cheap labor is no longer the advantage it used to be. There is a surprising amount of automation being deployed in China.
 
Americans do not want to pay. That is the primary reason.

Just look at the USA local re-sellers that buy LFP's from Alibaba - they are 2x the cost. They offer some transaction security, much faster delivery, etc.....but at a serious price hit. Now, imagine the whole process was happening here in the USA - the cells would be our of economic reach.

The Tesla Giga-Factory exists for a specific use-case. It may lead to more practical manufacturing of general purpose cells that can supply any industry but it will take a long time. For now, the giga-factory is just a small part of a giant supply chain gap for a specific company.

The citizens of the USA have been voting with thier wallets for many many decades. They vote for 'CHEAP!' without any recognition for the long term costs of losing local manufacturing and skills while simulataneously handing massive growth to China - for free.
 
The Tesla Giga-Factory exists for a specific use-case. It may lead to more practical manufacturing of general purpose cells that can supply any industry but it will take a long time. For now, the giga-factory is just a small part of a giant supply chain gap for a specific company
I do not know, and I don't think Tesla discloses the percentages of their cells that go into EVs and go into battery storage.
I do think the Tesla Gigafactory is a major part of the supply chain for Tesla. The battery may be the single largest cost component of a Tesla.
I think Tesla has a long term strategic plan that I think is lacking in much of industry in the USA.
 
I saw this documentary a few days ago, it's worth watching.


After watching it and with the price of LFP batteries dropping, I'm seriously thinking about harvesting solar at home without grid tie. Just a suitable battery bank and an automatic transfer switch for when my batteries are depleted.
 
I'm seriously thinking about harvesting solar at home without grid tie. Just a suitable battery bank and an automatic transfer switch for when my batteries are depleted.
The plan for my next home is to have a third party install inexpensive GT system on a NEM plan and use the grid for a battery as phase one. Phase two will be to re install my existing hybrid inverter DIY and AC couple it to the GT system. I will add more solar panels and battery capacity as a hedge against eroding NEM benefits. The biggest unknown for me is not the erosion of NEM benefits which I think is a given. The two unknowns are NEC 2020 regarding battery storage, and the evolution of DER as a revenue. The latter may create revenue that just might reduce the cost of a UL approved storage that could access DER revenue.
For those not familiar with DER, it stands for Distributed Energy Resource. The concept is a Virtual Power Plant (VPP) of connected battery powered inverters selling power to the grid. It is a concept more likely to be popular in California. It has already been implemented in pilot programs in Vermont and Australia.
 
It doesn't have to be for Lithium. Until recently Lithium demend was not great. China did strategically see the importance of it and contracted with suppliers. Lithium is also fairly abundant and easily recycled. As noted above Nevada is a large resource. More suppliers will enter the market. Lithium supply is not the constraint. It is the materials in the anode like nickel and cobalt that are expensive. That of course is for NCA. I don't know the specifics of LFP anodes.
I agree that there is supply... for now.

My response to the question "Why isn't there a LiFePo4 battery manufacturer in the US?" is that it is a business where the manufacturing process creates a lot of byproducts that nobody wants and does not want them stored anywhere near them.

In addition, spinning up a new manufacturing process is very expensive. I am glad to see that a company in Ohio is investing in a new one. But for a company to see the return on that investment, they will need a product that is guaranteed to sell, sell well, and sell and a high profit.
 
I agree that there is supply... for now.
I don't have a source but I seem to recall that Lithium is widely distributed on earth but in small concentrations, It is not classified as a rare earth metal. It is also recyclable so that may be the long term solution.
My response to the question "Why isn't there a LiFePo4 battery manufacturer in the US?" is that it is a business where the manufacturing process creates a lot of byproducts that nobody wants and does not want them stored anywhere near them.
I have not heard that. I have seen some confusion about the contaminants from Lead acid battery manufacturing. There are some volatile organics but those seem to be able to be reused. From what I have seen and read about the Tesla Gigafactory which makes millions of small cells every day there does not appear to be large amounts of byproducts leaving that facility.
In addition, spinning up a new manufacturing process is very expensive. I am glad to see that a company in Ohio is investing in a new one. But for a company to see the return on that investment, they will need a product that is guaranteed to sell, sell well, and sell and a high profit.
I agree that investment in capacity has lagged behind demand and other than Tesla the investment has been overseas by companies like LG Chem. I am talking mostly about NCA chemistry.
 
In the article I posted you can see a $2.3 BILLION start up cost which is a significant barrier to entry.

I was considering a gofundme page to do it myself but was concerned I might fall a few dollars short ?
 
In the article I posted you can see a $2.3 BILLION start up cost which is a significant barrier to entry.
Yes, that is an example of the kind of strategic thinking LG Chem is bringing to the table as a joint venture partner in that deal. They understand the market for batteries better than GM. They probably have access to a different capital market.
I am confused as to whether this is new construction or the retrofit of an old GM auto factory. Maybe GM had several plants in Lordstown because I read somewhere else they sold one to Lordstown motors.
 
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I am confused as to whether this is new construction or the retrofit of an old GM auto factory.

New construction and the EV pickup truck with the motors in the wheels assembly line is going into the old factory I believe.
 
I recall reading an article a while back that said China and the Chinese corporations have a lock on most of the world's supply of Lithium.
The majority of the worlds supply of lithium comes out of China ... export prices to the world for the material is 2 to 3 times cost, unless you would be purchasing as a internal to China user.
 
Top six lithium-producing countries in the world in 2019
  • Australia – 42,000 tonnes. Australia is by far the world's top producer of lithium, with an output of 42,000 tonnes in 2019. ...
  • Chile – 18,000 tonnes. ...
  • China – 7,500 tonnes. ...
  • Argentina – 6,400 tonnes. ...
  • Zimbabwe – 1,600 tonnes. ...
  • Portugal – 1,200 tonnes.
Also:
Lithium Reserves by Country | Chile is Number One | INN (investingnews.com)

Top ten biggest lithium mines in the world based on reserves (mining-technology.com)

Rare earth not rare
These chemical elements are called the rare earths, but they are not made of earth and are not particularly rare! In fact, although most people do not know much about rare earths, there is probably not a single day that goes by that you do not come into contact with one of the rare earth elements.

Rare earths: Little known minerals that really matter! - MERN​

 
The majority of the worlds supply of lithium comes out of China .
I think China has contracts for a lot of the Australian output and they are developing a mine in Sonora Mexico per the post above by @Steve_S. What is true is that a majority of the Lithium batteries come out of China. That includes factories owned by LG Chem who currently has the largest production capacity of Lithium batteries in the world. In addition to their capacity in China and Korea they are also building capacity in Lordstown, Ohio with GM and in Germany with another partner. Also as noted earlier, Tesla gets some of their Lithium from Nevada and has long term plans to also source Lithium from used battery packs.
 
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Guys, I am new to solar and DYI batteries.
I am just curious why there is not a manufacturer in the USA?
Is it lack of raw materials?
Patented technologies?
From all of the interest, and activity in this forum. It is certainly not lack of interest...
Any thoughts?
The most interesting fact is it was discovered in 1996 by MIT, they and UT hold patents on the technology. I suspect the reason for Chinese manufacturing is due to most USA usage is for vehicle storage where the higher density of lithium ion is used. The Chinese government has heavily subsidized the technology (and very environmentally messy mining and manufacturing) and the USA has not.
 
The Chinese government has heavily subsidized the technology (and very environmentally messy mining and manufacturing) and the USA has not
I do not agree with the human rights issues with the Chinese government, but they do deserve credit for having a long term strategy. Some of the subsidy was in the form of R&D which improved quality. Other aspects of that strategy was eliminating gasoline powered scooter in cities. That transitioned many people to small battery driven bikes and scooters which were easily charged at apartment buildings or where people worked. It also drove demand for Lithium batteries.
I have no way to compared the environmental consequences of coal mining or iron ore mining in the past 100 years in the USA to mining for Lithium. Until Lithium batteries were invented most Lithium was mined for use in drugs to treat depression. Maybe that is why I am always happy driving my EVs. :LOL:
 
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Each of us vote with our wallets everyday, and more often than not, we cannot resist low prices. Until most of the process is automated, where the US can use to offset the cheap labor cost in China, we will continue to see lower cost batteries come from China. China itself cannot sustain these low cost good, the CCP is pushing hard to increase the wages of the workers, and we are seeing companies shift to Vietnam, India, etc to maintain price points. I hate to say it, but I am supporting human organ harvesting in some way each time I decide to buy cheap good, and it's not a good feeling.
 
Even with the EPA we have companies considering fines to be the cost of doing business while they dump toxins into lakes and rivers. I am reminded of a gold mining company in Montana which used cyanide as part of their process to extract gold. They had agreed to clean it all up when they were done in order to get the lease on the public land but when they got all the gold, they filed bankruptcy and folded, leaving the cyanide waste in place.
Yes, Colorado is also littered with abandoned cyanide leach pits, you must be very careful where you site any water wells.
 
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