Yes, lithium is in itself not rare, but deposits with a high enough concentration of lithium to make it economically feasible to extract it are. Seawater contains lithium, but only in trace quantities. Lithium iron phosphate batteries are a big deal not only for safety reasons, but also due to the process not using truly rarer elements. Winston and/or Thundersky made a name for themselves by adding a bit of ytrium to the mix to make it more efficient and last longer. Basic process was invented and patented by MIT in 1996 (Wikipedia tells me).
Why in the heck is there not a Lifepo4 cell manufacturer in the USA?
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The thread is about US LiFePO4 manufacturing and that is what I was referring to.
Are you, or google, saying that the Gigafactory makes LiFePO4 batteries?
THAT would be news to me.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I have mentioned the Giga factory several times, usually with the disclaimer that they make NCA cells. Usually my comments have been directed toward the supply of Lithium and ease of recycling Lithium which is not specific to NCA, NMC or LFP.
My opinion is that unique factors in the Chinese market caused them to see the strategic significance of having manufacturing capacity to support the conversion of bikes and scooters to batteries and later to their bus and EV market. As a result, they became the largest producer of LFP capacity that I know of.
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The American Gigafactory puts Samsung Li cells into Tesla battery cases.
Probably change as soon as agreements run out and new US models released to use LiPo.
Then no need to duplicate the process of putting LiPo cells in Tesla battery cases at the US Gigafactory when the whole assembled unit can come from the China Gigafactory.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Actually it is Panasonic Energy of North America which assembles the cells in the Giga factory. Tesla specifies the formulation and there is no evidence that they will go to the extremely volatile Lipo chemistry. They are trying to reduce the amount of Cobalt in the anode of the battery. That may reduce the volatility of their NCA cells.
The Model 3s produced in China use LFP batteries produced by CATL and as far as I know there are no plans to to bring battery packs from China. Tesla did announce a new larger 4680 cell that they will be using in future cars when that process is able to be scaled up. They are working on that process in Nevada now with some pilot runs in that factory.
It is not clear if batteries will be made at new factories being constructed in Austin TX and Berlin Germany. The Giga factory in Nevada is only a little over half built out so there is still plenty of room for expansion and Tesla has secured Lithium supplies in Nevada.
To the subject of this thread, there is not much prospect of any LFP capacity being developed in the USA>
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Ampster told you about the gigafactory in Nevada and you said you'd never heard of it. I simply suggested you Google it. I am very much aware it is a different chemistry.
Care to provide proof? Also, every commercial scale gold mine uses cyanide.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
It is pretty common knowledge. Google is your friend. If you don't believe the gold story, Google coal mine pollution, or acid mine drainage.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
Quite a lot of mis-information, confusion and even PURE FUD in this thread, even with a nasty low key Racist Undertone in a couple of responses.
TESLA will NEVER use LiPo ! Whoever got that notion... DERP ! Their formulations are reducing cobalt and intending to eliminate it altogether, in fact, at present their usage of Cobalt per cell is the lowest going.
The CATL CTP's (Cell to Pack) is LFP Chemistry
The BYD Blade Packs are LFP.
2021 USA gets a New Federal Government. One not trying to hold onto Coal, Gas & Oil & the 20th Century Nostalgia but LOOKING at the 21st Century and the Future. Having a Friendly Federal Government that supports the Business Case for RE Technologies, including Battery Manufacturing will ALLOW the USA to play CATCH UP as the last 4 years have RETARDED Progress on a Huge Scale. It's going to be a Hard Slog from the back of the pack and the marathon has a LONG WAY TO GO !
Had all the Bailout Money that was wasted on propping up Coal and Oil & Gas been redirected to retraining those workers and refocussing on RE Resources the picture today would have been quite different. LESSON TO LEARN and Mistakes NOT to Repeat. What is Done if Done, time to MOVE ON & FORWARD !
There is a Huge Movement in Europe on Battery Manufacturing for ALL Types. Asia in General and India is also going LARGE. Some Factories are going in a few African Nations as well.
Australia - Another REGRESSIVE who produces the most Lithium out there has NO Battery Manufacturing ! But their Gov still Loves their coal, even though no one wants it... They are only NOW getting their 1st Lithium Battery Maker... a Whopping "28 Million Dollar" FARCE when you consider other factories are going up in Europe with Billions of Dollars being invested... Gotta Wonder.
Go ahead for Australia’s first lithium-ion battery manufacturing facility | Energy Magazine
TESLA will NEVER use LiPo ! Whoever got that notion... DERP ! Their formulations are reducing cobalt and intending to eliminate it altogether, in fact, at present their usage of Cobalt per cell is the lowest going.
The CATL CTP's (Cell to Pack) is LFP Chemistry
The BYD Blade Packs are LFP.
2021 USA gets a New Federal Government. One not trying to hold onto Coal, Gas & Oil & the 20th Century Nostalgia but LOOKING at the 21st Century and the Future. Having a Friendly Federal Government that supports the Business Case for RE Technologies, including Battery Manufacturing will ALLOW the USA to play CATCH UP as the last 4 years have RETARDED Progress on a Huge Scale. It's going to be a Hard Slog from the back of the pack and the marathon has a LONG WAY TO GO !
Had all the Bailout Money that was wasted on propping up Coal and Oil & Gas been redirected to retraining those workers and refocussing on RE Resources the picture today would have been quite different. LESSON TO LEARN and Mistakes NOT to Repeat. What is Done if Done, time to MOVE ON & FORWARD !
There is a Huge Movement in Europe on Battery Manufacturing for ALL Types. Asia in General and India is also going LARGE. Some Factories are going in a few African Nations as well.
Australia - Another REGRESSIVE who produces the most Lithium out there has NO Battery Manufacturing ! But their Gov still Loves their coal, even though no one wants it... They are only NOW getting their 1st Lithium Battery Maker... a Whopping "28 Million Dollar" FARCE when you consider other factories are going up in Europe with Billions of Dollars being invested... Gotta Wonder.
Go ahead for Australia’s first lithium-ion battery manufacturing facility | Energy Magazine
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Haven't read through the thread but will do so now for moderation purposes.
Moderators can't be everywhere. Please help by reporting anything racist/political/etc. It has no business on these forums and will be deleted.
Great claims require a reference link, so if in doubt as to the accuracy of information please ask for a reference link. If refuting a claim, please don't descend into he-said/she-said, just state the truth and cite a legitimate reference source (typically published/peer-reviewed papers or those who have a good reputation and interest in accuracy.
Moderators can't be everywhere. Please help by reporting anything racist/political/etc. It has no business on these forums and will be deleted.
This one is trickier and we don't like to stifle thought, but we also don't want to propagate false information. Will means his forums to be a learning tool, not a propaganda junk yard.
Great claims require a reference link, so if in doubt as to the accuracy of information please ask for a reference link. If refuting a claim, please don't descend into he-said/she-said, just state the truth and cite a legitimate reference source (typically published/peer-reviewed papers or those who have a good reputation and interest in accuracy.
Sverige
A Brit in Sweden
Here in Sweden we have a lot of the same issues mentioned earlier in the thread as drawbacks to prevent manufacturing within the USA. Certainly labour costs here are among the highest in Europe and i’d guess much higher than the US.
Nevertheless we have Northvolt building a massive EV cell manufacturing facility just down the road from me. I’m not sure where it ranks in the global league tables - not the biggest for sure - but it must mean the economics of manufacturing such cells in the West must stack up.
Nevertheless we have Northvolt building a massive EV cell manufacturing facility just down the road from me. I’m not sure where it ranks in the global league tables - not the biggest for sure - but it must mean the economics of manufacturing such cells in the West must stack up.
Oxidetoiron
New Member
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This news may be related to this discussion. Recent news I just came across today on a new lithium extraction process being used in Nevada.....
Nevada lithium mine.
Nevada lithium mine.
Pappion
Retired Engineer Tech
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About a decade ago I invested in a penny stock startup that bought Nevada mineral leases. I got outbecause they did not have the capital to develop it. AARGH, months later a Chinese company bought them out. I could have tripled my money.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
My Danish great grand mother grub staked miners heading to the Idaho gold and silver mines in the early 1900s. When she died in 1948 her estate had stock certificates for hundreds of mining companies, most of whom were long out of business. One company was still around and owned some land in Colorado. Eventually Mobil Oil purchased that property and it paid off. The moral to the story is if you have some luck and enough time something will happen.
newbostonconst
Solar Enthusiast
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I work next door to that plant....it was very clean and they have been pulling the equiptment out of it for the last couple years.
In addition to the multi billion dollar battery plant I mentioned in post #4 of this thread GM is reportedly looking at building another multi billion dollar plant in Tennessee.
See here:
www.reuters.com
See here:
GM in talks to build second U.S. battery plant with LG Chem in Tennessee
General Motors Co said on Thursday it is considering building a second battery factory in the United States with South Korean joint-venture partner LG Chem Ltd.
www.reuters.com
And here is drone footage of the Ohio plant construction as of last month:
www.wfmj.com
Auto industry analysts call GM battery plant in Lordstown, 'Significant'
The battery plant will be only the second in the United States near the size of Tesla's Gigafactory in Nevada.
www.wfmj.com
As for Australia, a lot of countries produce raw materials primarily for export. Didnt know that was a problem?
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