Folks this may get torched, but I want to speak up in support of codes. You see.. everybody dies. And that means, Your house, on Your land, that You build will likely be someone else's house. Will your estate cover a fire loss, if the inverter you used actually does not have the rated capacity of the label? Why would a insurance company issue a policy on a house when the electrical feed has a bunch of unlisted components. Will you pick up the tab for the college education of the children of a lineman who gets electrocuted, because your autoisolation hardware didn't work properly or worse you didn't have any? I am the current owner of a house that was built in the mid 20's and has been modified quite a few times. Oh look, no continuous header across a picture window! Now it was a gable end wall so did it matter, oh wait this is balloon frame construction, so it mattered at least some. There are certainly code officials who look to much to the letter rather than the spirit of codes, and inspectors who are looking for the little white envelope, but no codes is a bad idea. Look at all those newer houses that did survive hurricane Ida! Seems those new codes actually helped.
Why they are neccesary
- Thread starter AndyRonLI
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BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
I'm not aware of anyone on this forum or even in the construction industry that has suggested eliminating building codes. The US as whole has much less loss of life due to natural disasters and that is in fact due in large part to our better building codes and enforcement. The problem is the MASSIVE gap between the intent of the building code and the endless bureaucratic nightmare and delays one encounters with some AHJ's. I've been involved in the construction business for over 20 years and each City or County has their own policies and practices that somehow they expect everyone is supposed to automatically know how to navigate through. I'm not going to list any examples here but I have a couple of really absurd ones.
This is an order from your local Code Enforcement Officer to remove the un-permitted bird feeder you have placed in your back yard. There will be severe fines and possible legal consequences if you do not comply effective immediately.
Bird feeders can only be used after plans are approved by the County Zoning Commission. There must be an EPA study to show that any bird seed will not be a harm to protected bird species and any waste developed will require a mitigation system approved by the State"s Environmental Water and Sanitation Board.
Plans for Bird feeders must show that they can not become a missile hazard in winds exceeding 30mph. They have to be child safe and contain no hazardous materials as defined in Code 12 Paragraph 4 subsection 3. Construction has to meet engineering standards and all plans must contain the appropriate licensed engineer stamp.
Permit fee for Bird Feeder will be $500 per feed tray and if the feeder has more than one tray special provision must be made for squirrels.
Bird feeders can only be used after plans are approved by the County Zoning Commission. There must be an EPA study to show that any bird seed will not be a harm to protected bird species and any waste developed will require a mitigation system approved by the State"s Environmental Water and Sanitation Board.
Plans for Bird feeders must show that they can not become a missile hazard in winds exceeding 30mph. They have to be child safe and contain no hazardous materials as defined in Code 12 Paragraph 4 subsection 3. Construction has to meet engineering standards and all plans must contain the appropriate licensed engineer stamp.
Permit fee for Bird Feeder will be $500 per feed tray and if the feeder has more than one tray special provision must be made for squirrels.
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Too Silly, Much too silly
Hey it is nothing compared to some areas. We have a city nearby that is considered "Historical" you should see the nonsense homeowners have to put up with. The bird feeder there would have to be matched to the Victorian house design era. Only Historical district committee approved colors and materials would be allowed.
BTW while some codes are great the notion that they overide personal responsibilty is just silly. If a person after I die gets my property I would expect them to practice Due Diligence. If they hurt themselves I will not turn over in my grave in remorse.
I note that the bridge leading to Sanibel(sp?) Island (which I am sure was built to code) somehow did not survive the Hurricane.
Charleswgibbs
Solar Enthusiast
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My local code requires that if I die a device implanted in my chest will trigger a self destruct of my entire system. Anything for safety.
No code lets a bridge survive a hurricane like that. So if you aren't a licensed electrician or better yet an electrical engineer what exactly is your due diligence. I suppose I could inspect every box for a UL label, maybe even pull every breaker and check that it is the real deal. The reasons that we have code is that a lot of people DONT HAVE OR EXCERCISE any PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If every one was an honest skilled craftsman one might argue there is no need.
I am all for standards of practice that craftsmen adhere to. What I'm against is codes that are designed to put money in the pockets of manufacturers that sit on the code making panels. AFCI breakers are one such device. Having manufacturers on the code making panel was bound to lead to corruption.
I also understand that we need material standards because not every piece of electrical equipment is up to snuff. However, approval should be situational. For example, maybe I don't use a UL listed inverter. But maybe it is a really well built machine. An inspector has the authority to approve such a situation. But oftentimes they just refuse any such thing across the board because it's easier than actually evaluating the situation at hand. I'm not against codes and standards; I'm against bureaucracy that exists to justify it's own existence as a lap dog for big corporations.
I also understand that we need material standards because not every piece of electrical equipment is up to snuff. However, approval should be situational. For example, maybe I don't use a UL listed inverter. But maybe it is a really well built machine. An inspector has the authority to approve such a situation. But oftentimes they just refuse any such thing across the board because it's easier than actually evaluating the situation at hand. I'm not against codes and standards; I'm against bureaucracy that exists to justify it's own existence as a lap dog for big corporations.
Bud Martin
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Having products with UL stamped on it does not mean they are really safe. I used to do volunteer works for Electronics recycle on the weekend for over 20 years, I repairs electronics for them so they can be reused again and I get to see how well and bad many products are made.
This LG TV has UL listed, luckily the house did not burn down due to burnt out LED backlights. I also deal with UL for over 20 years getting the products I design to pass UL compliance, UL do not know everything and understand everything about electronics based on what I experienced with them but they sure charge lots of money. in this case it looks like they forget to test the protection circuits in the LED backlights drivers.
This LG TV has UL listed, luckily the house did not burn down due to burnt out LED backlights. I also deal with UL for over 20 years getting the products I design to pass UL compliance, UL do not know everything and understand everything about electronics based on what I experienced with them but they sure charge lots of money. in this case it looks like they forget to test the protection circuits in the LED backlights drivers.
chess-equality
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So never any guarantees, but remember when all the "hoverboard" toys were catching on fire. I suspect those were not UL listed products. UL doesn't mean that perfection is achieved it means that some (supposedly neutral) third party has looked at your product and deemed it reasonably safe. Still can have a bad part, bad tool or sloppy worker. Now supposedly ISO9000 (or whatever it is) solves that problem LOL
Bud Martin
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I also remember when laptops were catching on fire 2006, 2008 and with more than one recall long before Hoverboard or Ebike, nothing change much and UL got lots of money for the so called testing.
ISO9000/9001 is just about paper works, I spent so much time doing paper works than designing and testing the products, really nothing to do with safety or test procedures, it is about trace ability and quality management. If you go to China or other Asian countries, you see ISO stickers/banner plastered on the factory trucks and buildings like a joke, when the auditors come to our place, they just flipping through some paper works, asked some questions and left, lots of money to be made for them, we also have to have a pledge about our company, LOL.
www.cnet.com
www.wired.com
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/14683035/fit_11a_hero08_b_pen_starts8-1.0.1409856767.jpg)
www.theverge.com
ISO9000/9001 is just about paper works, I spent so much time doing paper works than designing and testing the products, really nothing to do with safety or test procedures, it is about trace ability and quality management. If you go to China or other Asian countries, you see ISO stickers/banner plastered on the factory trucks and buildings like a joke, when the auditors come to our place, they just flipping through some paper works, asked some questions and left, lots of money to be made for them, we also have to have a pledge about our company, LOL.
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32 volt boater
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Insurance is a scam. Without coercive forces most people would not buy it.
That's why they have enough money to bombard us with those irritating commercials on every channel.
How much do insurance companies pay for commercials?
Overall, the advertising spend equates to about $20 per person in the U.S. or about $60 for the typical insurance-purchasing single person, couple or family.
Progressive spent $1.95 billion on advertising in 2020, according to an S&P Global Market Intelligence analysis of statutory data, 17.5% more than the $1.66 billion it spent in 2019. State Farm spent $1.17 billion on advertising in 2020, down 3.5% from $1.21 billion a year earlier.....
The list goes on.
Before you buy a house its YOUR job to hire an engineer to check it out and tell you if it can withstand hurricanes if that is a feature you are looking for.
Last Hurricane will cost insurance companies less then those stupid ads anyway.
No, not connected to grid but my solar puts out less power then a standard household outlet. Lineman wear gloves and stuff. They can touch the old toaster and sink at the same time.
Any recorded line worker deaths/injuries from domestic grid tie solar?
This popped up on another energy forum when discussing DIY grid-tie. A member was discouraging anyone going DIY grid-tie because "they would end up in jail when a line worked died due to their mistakes". The counter of course is that "all" (ears because there are people out there who exist...
diysolarforum.com
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