diy solar

diy solar

Will EV's make electricity expensive? Need good answer.

There is also Nio which offers battery swap. They're currently building the infrastructure for this in Noway and other countries. This coupled with their Battery as a Service model means there will be a lower up-front cost among other things.
This is something I personally would be very concerned about. I could imagine myself driving in to a battery swapping station with my brand-new but depleted battery bank, and driving out with an old bank on it's 2000ths charge. In California, I could see it happening every day.
 
This is something I personally would be very concerned about. I could imagine myself driving in to a battery swapping station with my brand-new but depleted battery bank, and driving out with an old bank on it's 2000ths charge. In California, I could see it happening every day.
There are going to be consumer protections on this here in Europe, so I'm not worried. The good thing is, you can also just swap it again - and they keep those batteries up to standard. This also means that if you have an old pack, you get a good one back. In addition, you get to take advantage when higher capacity packs become available, or you can just switch to a high capacity battery for that one road trip per year while driving a lower one for daily commutes.
 
I could imagine myself driving in to a battery swapping station with my brand-new but depleted battery bank, and driving out with an old bank on it's 2000ths charge.
If I had that concern, I would not swap my pack. If I did have a Nio I would not worry about getting an old pack since next swap I could just get another pack as @upnorthandpersonal noted. I do worry about putting old fuel in my garden tractor. FWIW, I drive a 2016 Tesla with 100,000 miles and I have no worries about that vehicle. Ironically I am getting my second 12 volt battery replacement.
 
The U.S. has passed 2 million PV systems.
Interesting. For reference, Australia, with a population 1/13th that of the USA, has just passed 3 million rooftop solar PV installations.
Grid tied solar PV is way cheaper to install here than in the USA.


Australia reached a milestone of 3 million small-scale solar systems installed on rooftops. That’s more than 1 in 4 houses and many non-residential buildings which have installed solar in Australia.

This milestone highlights that the solar PV sector is going from strength to strength and has recorded 30% growth year on year from 2017 to 2020.

The 3 million small-scale rooftop solar systems would generate approximately 18.9 terawatt hours, 7% of Australia's 265 terawatt hours total annual electricity generation. This represents a substantial increase from just one year ago, where rooftop solar installations contributed approximately 5.5% of Australia’s annual electricity generation.

And Australia’s enthusiasm for solar power shows no sign of slowing anytime soon. We are processing between 8,000 and 10,000 applications every week for small-scale technology certificates associated with solar PV systems.

As to EV charging, the uptake of EVs is going to be relatively slow here to begin with and the demands have been modelled by the CSIRO (our national scientific and research organisation), commissioned by our national electricity market operator (AEMO).


These assessments are built into the bigger picture for the future demand on Australia's grid, the AEMO has this forecast and planning regular report:

Residential and residential EVs
Under the Central outlook, underlying residential consumption is forecast to increase from 57 TWh in 2020-21 to 59 TWh in 2030-31, due primarily to new household connections. Based on BIS Oxford dwelling construction forecasts, the number of household connections is forecast to increase from 9.3 million in 2020-21 to 10.8 million in 2030-31, and on average, each household is currently forecast to consume approximately 6 MWh annually.
Over time, average household consumption is projected to reduce, with energy efficiency improvements in appliances and building design, before starting to rise again following the electrification of heating load, hot water systems and uptake of EVs:
  • By 2030-31, EVs are forecast to be cost-competitive with internal combustion engines, and between half a million and four million residentials cars are projected to be electric, depending on scenario. This amounts to between 2% and 12% of additional residential consumption (up to 7 TWh).

So while EV energy consumption will be significant, in relative terms it's not forecast to represent a large part of the total grid consumption over the next 10 years. See the chart below from the report and note the thin slice of total grid consumption EVs represent over the next 10 years. In 10 years from now EVs are expected represent only ~3.5% of grid consumption.

Screen Shot 2021-11-27 at 6.54.03 am.png

If I were to speculate what this means for electricity prices in Australia, I would suggest that there are far bigger factors in play here than the modest additional demand EVs will represent.

Put another way, the impact of EVs on prices will be lost in the noise.

Electricity retailers (mainly the gentailers) are already offering plans specifically for EV customers, with special off-peak EV charging options.

Home chargers here are going to be part of it and the most common home charger will be 7kW. Those with 3-phase supply may well install 22kW chargers. A basic plug in charger is 2.4kW.

It may well be that EV chargers will be placed onto network controlled loads (similar to hot water) with power made available outside of the morning and evening peak periods. Often these devices have a bypass option where power can be provided on demand but at much higher peak rates.

But for controlled load overnight charging starting at ~11pm, with a typical 7kW charger, by 6am that's up to 49kWh or roughly 300km/185miles of EV range. If you needed more range than that on a given day then you'll probably stop at a fast charging station en route anyway.

But in general most EVs are just going to need a bit of a top up charge.

The average residential vehicle commute here is ~15km (10 miles), so ~30km(20miles)/day being average. That's only going to require ~5kWh/day, or less than 1 hour of charging on a typical home charger or under 2.5 hours with a small plug in charger. That's on average, some individuals of course will be much more, others a lot less.
 
every day long commute with battery only electric vehicle is not something i consider to be super viable in usa yet. but it’s getting better. charging stations at parking lots etc. but usually less than 1/10th the spots. multiple charging plug standards. different charging rates, it increases the complexity of logistics
Assuming proper charging at home, I believe a long commute will create an especially good value to have an EV. 200 miles per day and 250+ range is very doable.
 
multiple charging plug standards. different charging rates, it increases the complexity of logistics.
In the USA there is only one AC charging standard which is J1772. Even though my Tesla uses a different form for the plug the protocol is the same. With a simple adapter I can charge at any J1772 station.
DC fast charging does have at least three unique Standards; Tesla, Chademo and CCS. I have 100,000 miles on one of my Teslas including a cross country trip and the logistics were simple. I do have a Tesla to Chademo adaptor but rarely have to use it.
I actually choose to vary the charging rates at my home based on whether I want to use the available solar or charge quickly at super off peak rates. I don't have an issue with DC charging rates but perhaps that is because Tesla has some of the fastest DC charging rates.
 
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Of course.

But the point I made earlier is that the infrastructure doesn't need all that much upgrading as a whole because the projected increase by 2040 is still only 5% of the total power needs of the planet.

The grid already largely has that overhead available today

Level 2 AC "charger" is just glorified contactor and supervisory circuit. The cable itself is probably more than 50% of BOM.
Basically extension cord with GFCI
Charger part is actually inside the cars and the "wall box" supplies AC power trough contactor/relays.
I Could bodge my own 3-phase 22kW level 2 "charger" from junk box parts for free in a hour or two..
Not such a bargain then.
 
In the USA there is only one AC charging standard which is J1772. Even though my Tesla uses a different form for the plug the protocol is the same. With a simple adapter I can charge at any J1772 station.
DC fast charging does have at least three unique Standards; Tesla, Chademo and CCS. I have 100,000 miles on one of my Teslas including a cross country trip and the logistics were simple. I do have a Tesla to Chademo adaptor but rarely have to use it.
Are any of the chargers inductive coupled to the car?
 
Are any of the chargers inductive coupled to the car?
No, and I have no interest in inductive charging anyway. I have been charging my EVs with a plug for ten years and it takes five seconds to plug in. Recently the receptacle on my cell phone broke and I have been inductively charging it and it seems to be inefficient anyway. I assume the same would be true with car charging.
 
No, and I have no interest in inductive charging anyway. I have been charging my EVs with a plug for ten years and it takes five seconds to plug in. Recently the receptacle on my cell phone broke and I have been inductively charging it and it seems to be inefficient anyway. I assume the same would be true with car charging.
I remember seeing a design that was very similar looking to a gas pump. It had a split core ferrite ring inside. The ring would clamp over a single turn on the vehicle. The claim was that it was very safe as there were no live wires. Since you've been charging for 10 years and haven't electrocuted yourself I'll assume they found a safe way to make connections.
 
I'll assume they found a safe way to make connections.
Yes that is a safe assumption. The J1772 protocol makes sure the car is connected before any power is applied. As @MattiFin mentioned above the EVSE is just a glorified contactor but it does have a handshaking routine that also matches the capacity of the circuit to tell the on-board charger how many Amps to draw. He must have an impressive junk box of parts that he could put one of those together in an hour or two.:)
 
In the USA there is only one AC charging standard which is J1772. Even though my Tesla uses a different form for the plug the protocol is the same. With a simple adapter I can charge at any J1772 station.
DC fast charging does have at least three unique Standards; Tesla, Chademo and CCS. I have 100,000 miles on one of my Teslas including a cross country trip and the logistics were simple. I do have a Tesla to Chademo adaptor but rarely have to use it.
I actually choose to vary the charging rates at my home based on whether I want to use the available solar or charge quickly at super off peak rates. I don't have an issue with DC charging rates but perhaps that is because Tesla has some of the fastest DC charging rates.
tesla supercharger network has made long distance travel feasible for me too, slow charging while trying to make distance is not acceptable for me. there’s only so many side tasks and scenic walks i can do. sitting with a vehicle on a slow IV drip is no fun. totally fine for overnight charging though.

it’s great to be able to charge at 100,000 watts yet it’s still much slower than the equivalent petrol energy transfer.

i love electric vehicles!

it’s awesome to also breathe profoundly clean air around a vehicle.
 
Are any of the chargers inductive coupled to the car?
not anymore as far as i know but perhaps the EV-1 qualifies

The EV1 charged using the Magne Charge inductive charging paddle produced by the General Motors subsidiary Delco Electronics. The Magne Charge paddle was inserted into a slot between the EV1's headlights. The wireless charging technology meant that no direct connection was made, and charging the car while it was raining did not pose any risks, though there were isolated incidents involving fires starting at the charge port.[73]
it’s not in active production anymore

1637974489940.jpeg

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regarding the efficiency angle
Magne Charge support was withdrawn by General Motors in 2002,[7] after the California Air Resources Board settled on a conductive charging interface for electric vehicles in California in June 2001.[8][9]
 
You can't just look at it in isolation. there are a number of things happening at the same time.

My guess is that in the cities, most people would not want to own a car, self driving taxi's will be a cheaper alternative.
Rooftop solar with battery.
The grid will see huge peaks with low lows, making financing a nightmare.
Roads need to be payed for.
People working from home will reduce the need for transport.
AI will most likely take over more and more factory jobs, but the robots will need power 24/7.

All of those challenges will be met, but we are leaving it too late. And then you have angry conspiracy theorists with guns supporting the party that does not want the inevitable changes and their numbers will only grow. So people here do our own thing, build solar with battery backup. My guess is that my smallish system will pay for itself in 11 year and things will only get cheaper while grid power will get more and more expensive. But what will happen to those that do not have 6k to invest?
 
There is also Nio which offers battery swap. They're currently building the infrastructure for this in Noway and other countries. This coupled with their Battery as a Service model means there will be a lower up-front cost among other things.
In another thread I mentioned that something like this will be the way EVs are handled in the future.
I did not even know that a company was already doing it. This makes the most sense as commuters can pull up into a station and get a swap done in 10 minutes. People won't like the idea now but by time this tech is ready for market you will know your getting a battery that closely matches your original and I would predict that in a couple of years after it becomes popular it won't even be an issue in peoples minds.
What needs to be hammered out is limiting battery packs to no more than three sizes and mounting configurations. A set of common standard that all manufactures can get on board with like they do with other devices.

Video link in case people did not watch it.
https://www.nio.com/cdn-static/mynio/videos/nio-power/battery-swap-station.mp4
 
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his makes the most sense as commuters can pull up into a station and get a swap done in 10 minutes.
I expect we will see 1000 km range on EV's and if the batteries being part of the structure, swapping might not be an option. Most of us will likely want a break from driving and stop for a bite to eat, defecate, etc while the car is being recharged. If it is a self driving rental, we could just swap cars if we are in a big hurry.
 
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