KellyDood
New Member
I was looking at the grid-tie system and it says you can't use it during outages which is funny because my primary reason for going solar is that I don't trust our government to keep the power on!
It's all in the name of "public safety". Clearly I see it to a point. But there are definitely some newer regs that appear to be design to prompt one business over another. (like the newest NEC that all LFP batteries must be UL).I'm in the UK & frankly I'm staggered by the level of imposed state control for PV & storage in the "Land of the 'free' "
Waitaminute, you're saying that if I want to put solar on my out building, I'm Legally Required to run the wires in a NON-Watertight conduit???you can have a 240VAC 20A line in plain romex in the outbuilding, but any DC circuit - regardless of voltage or current - must be in metal conduit, including the 150VDC 9A circuit. Plastic conduit isn't enough.
Isn't it great to know they're looking out for our safety?Waitaminute, you're saying that if I want to put solar on my out building, I'm Legally Required to run the wires in a NON-Watertight conduit???
In Washington (rocking the 2020 NEC)...
In the rain...
Does that strike anyone else as particularly stupid??
And how many LiFe battery manufacturers are UL listed? I'm guessing not Chins/Ampertime/Zoom, Etc...
I was looking at the grid-tie system and it says you can't use it during outages which is funny because my primary reason for going solar is that I don't trust our government to keep the power on!
I have been to the UK and it is a very damp country, at least when I was there. Many parts of the US are bone dry low humidity areas. In damp humid countries it's not all that easy to start a fire with just a simple spark. In the US it is very easy for fires to start with a spark. Regulations are usually put in place based on past experience and tragedies.I'm in the UK & frankly I'm staggered by the level of imposed state control for PV & storage in the "Land of the 'free' "
What makes you think metal conduit is necessarily non watertight?Waitaminute, you're saying that if I want to put solar on my out building, I'm Legally Required to run the wires in a NON-Watertight conduit???
In Washington (rocking the 2020 NEC)...
In the rain...
Does that strike anyone else as particularly stupid??
And how many LiFe battery manufacturers are UL listed? I'm guessing not Chins/Ampertime/Zoom, Etc...
If he was in the derecho, he was in Iowa most likely, probably 2 hours south of me. If that is the case, he in most likely in Cedar Rapids and Mid American Energy and Alliant control the grid in the area.View attachment 80686F.Y.I…
Not entirely accurate, because NC has adopted the 2020 commercial code, but not for residential…
I have never seen any type of conduit installed outdoors that is watertight, that is why you install low point drains and install correct wiring for wet locations.What makes you think metal conduit is necessarily non watertight?
The conduit (on the outside wall of my house) installed by an electrician that runs from the combiner boxes over to the 'entry point' under the house is water-proof. I can attest there is such a thing as waterproof outdoor metal conduit.I have never seen any type of conduit installed outdoors that is watertight, that is why you install low point drains and install correct wiring for wet locations.
The conduit (on the outside wall of my house) installed by an electrician that runs from the combiner boxes over to the 'entry point' under the house is water-proof. I can attest there is such a thing as waterproof outdoor metal conduit.
View attachment 84272
Certainly not submersible, but rain tight is a thing for metal conduit.I have never seen any type of conduit installed outdoors that is watertight, that is why you install low point drains and install correct wiring for wet locations.
Ok so let's see, if I have a car battery in my garage, and I attach a battery charger and 12V inverter, what type of certification/listing/NEC compliance are you saying I should require? My current offgrid system is no different. Random batteries laying on the ground and a typical shelf, connected to an offgrid inverter with zero connection to the grid. Can someone please show me what part of the NEC covers this type of system?
If I connect a $100 solar panel to a $200 solar generator to charge my phone, should the inverter circuit be UL1741?
If I have a cell phone plugged into a $20 cellphone charger that uses a small solar cell to operate, do I need it to be inspected?
If you have a UPS device for backup power for your computer, does it need an inspector to come out? Would you consider this an emergency back up power source? If so, why do people not follow NEC for this? They have a whole section on how to connect a back up power system, why would it not apply for these smaller units?
I do not think there is a good definition for offgrid battery back up or solar systems. The number one issue I have found with my local ordinances is that my array has to be under 5ft so that I do not require permits. So I threw them on the ground. There is zero laws stating the difference between 1 solar panel and 10,000W of solar panels lying on the ground.
If I am using the battery charger in my offgrid inverter, you need to use the grounding conductor. Which is stated in every manual. Very important. But running a grounding rod to my offgrid panel? Why? I do not see the utility. I would prefer running it at as a floating system, and I would consider that safer.
I'm in the UK & frankly I'm staggered by the level of imposed state control for PV & storage in the "Land of the 'free' "
Deleted, answered my own questionHedges:
The link I copied from another person on this forum talks specifically about detached structures providing power. The State official here made the comment to me that this closed one of the biggest loopholes in the older code. They did it by determining that if the energy is used in your house at 25 volts or above, it has to be listed. I asked about permitted generator hookups that could be used to hook up a system, even if just for power outages. Nope, not allowed. But it is okay to hook up a ragged old piece of crap generator, and use that energy. I suspect that will be dealt with in the future too.
The part that really upset me about the new regulations is about ESS. It slammed the door on DIY stuff, unless you happen to get it tested by an NRTL and certified. They did that by defining it as a system that provides a certain amount of energy. I don't recall the number. But it is very specific, and calls out that all components must be tested as a complete system, and must all comply. After a lot of consideration, I'm now shifting to look at FLA and sell off all my DIY stuff. Or, moving to another City/State.
For those who choose to just do what they like without a proper permit, good luck. I cannot afford to take that risk.
I'm going to stop commenting on this issue, because I have to go battle with insurance companies who don't want to pay claims for damage done in last years derecho that hit with 140mph winds here. A large percentage of my friends and neighbors still don't have roofs repaired from the damage 18 months ago, and most only got a token payment from their insurance. No way! An insurance company would not do that, while their companies make record profits and their CEO's get record bonuses....and they would certainly not deny a claim because your house burned down due to a BMS that caught on fire with your DIY battery! They would just forgive the fact that you didn't take out a permit, and they would act LIKE A GOOD NEIGHBOR.....like the commercials say. Don't worry, you will be in Good Hands. That is sarcasm, in case it escaped anyone. And no, my house did not burn down.
Flooded Lead Acid, aka Wally World Marine Batteries or golf cart batteries. Old school tech tried and true.When you say FLA vs diy stuff, what do you mean by FLA
Sorrythx,yes I realized he meant flooded lead acid, after I saw the ruling that lithium ess' had to be UL listed but not lead... Sorry for the confusion. Great thread!Flooded Lead Acid, aka Wally World Marine Batteries or golf cart batteries. Old school tech tried and true.
?None of it will matter when the grid goes down for good.