Will"s video on AIO shock Hazzard prevention in AIO inverters and perhaps im asking if old school transformer/ LF inverter is preferred

[davefromlondon]

I see Will only discovered this problem 2 years ago.

My concern and question is, if I'm building a solar system, Texas home, 10kw 120v appliances , 24v battery , DIY with engineering background but not an expert, safety is key aspect , simplicity preferred , no budget concerns, no space concern .....
...... am I better off using old school transformer , low frequency inverter with separate components for solar controller , battery charger etc etc .....or .....am I better off using a high-tech all in one ?

The video attached concerns me with the newer tech aio, I realize will has 2 rules to fix this problem (plus a 3rd rule that you need special solar panels, see pic attached )

When I say simplicity preferred I don't mean an AIO is simpler than old.school multi component. I am comfortable buying and connecting the basic old school components, i find this simple what I don't like and what I find complex are the topics and concerns Will covers in this video on the variations of the problem in different AIO products and the requirement to only buy certain types of panels.

Perhaps AIO have better efficiency, performance etc. again, I'm ok with older , lesser performance if it means simpler in context I describe above.

 

[chrisski]

A lot of it depends on what you want.

I have a gabled roof where I can’t fit many panels together, so I could not go with a low amperage high voltage AIO. I have 10 series of parallel panels.

I am comfortable buying and connecting the basic old school components

I was surprised at how much harder connecting a 100 amp MPPT with 1 AWG wires was compared to a 50 amp MPPT with 6 AWG.

So much harder harder to route, crimp, and secure wires.

Something to be said about not needing to do that.

I better off using old school transformer , low frequency

I have a low frequency 8 kW Outback Radian and I like that, but three AIO can be purchased for that price.

 

[Brucey]

Perhaps AIO have better efficiency, performance etc. again, I'm ok with older , lesser performance if it means simpler in context I describe above.

With seperates, its not possible for stray AC to end up at the panels.

Are you limited to 24V battery config? Multiples of these?

Victron 24V Quattro 5kVA 120V Inverter 120A Charger

The Victron Quattro 24V 5kVA is a reliable power solution with inverter, charger, and advanced features for optimized energy management and control.

www.currentconnected.com

Even with an unlimited budget I would suggest a 48V nominal config, makes it much easier in terms of inverter choice and also for scc charging capacity.

 

[Kornbread]

With seperates, its not possible for stray AC to end up at the panels.

Are you limited to 24V battery config? Multiples of these?

Victron 24V Quattro 5kVA 120V Inverter 120A Charger

The Victron Quattro 24V 5kVA is a reliable power solution with inverter, charger, and advanced features for optimized energy management and control.

www.currentconnected.com

Even with an unlimited budget I would suggest a 48V nominal config, makes it much easier in terms of inverter choice and also for scc charging capacity.

Yes, if possible, 48v. I'd wager the future brings >48v due to savings in copper and other components.

Separates vs an aio ... it's up to you. Each has pros/cons.

Special solar panels for most aio ... new one on me. While many 'over panel' to enhance rainy day production, there is a limit, and of course going over on voc is nearly always a recipe for disaster. Many aio and separate mppt controllers put some ac voltage onto the solar panel. IIRC, it could easily be remidied inside the aio, but manufacturers cost cut to maximize profits.

 

[davefromlondon]

I'm grateful for the responses.
In my mind there are two levels of knowledge. "Good" and "Expert ".

One comment/ topic above
[With seperates, its not possible for stray AC to end up at the panels.]

I call that level of discission, stray AC, expert level. I'm training myself to be the appropriate level to DIY install safely. I'm more comfortable with Good vs Expert level.

I'm leaning towards separates. Yes, more work , more wires , etc but doing wiring properly is what I call Good level capability.

Am I on the right track here that separates, more work, but avoids these advanced problems caused by manufacturers, ironically, working to make it easier, more affordable ?

I hope I'm making sense

 

[hwy17]

Don't build 24V always 48v.

Always separates.

Only Schneider, Midnite (made in USA), Victron, SMA, or Morningstar.

That's my advice.

For stationary applications should only come with inherently unbonded neutrals. If an inverter comes with either a manual or automatic internal bond that's a sign that it's not a serious product for stationary use.

 

[davefromlondon]

Don't build 24V always 48v.

Always separates.

Only Schneider, Midnite (made in USA), Victron, SMA, or Morningstar.

That's my advice.

For stationary applications should only come with inherently unbonded neutrals. If an inverter comes with either a manual or automatic internal bond that's a sign that it's not a serious product for stationary use.

I'm liking your advice . I notice SMA are based in my home town Dallas. I reached out to them . I am genuinely appreciative of your guidance.

 

[davefromlondon]

Don't build 24V always 48v.

Always separates.

Only Schneider, Midnite (made in USA), Victron, SMA, or Morningstar.

That's my advice.

For stationary applications should only come with inherently unbonded neutrals. If an inverter comes with either a manual or automatic internal bond that's a sign that it's not a serious product for stationary use.

Could you advise further the difference between a manually bonded and an inherently unbounded neutral ?

 

[hwy17]

Could you advise further the difference between a manually bonded and an inherently unbounded neutral ?

I don't actually know how often manual bonds exist. Some EG4's had a bonding screw you could add or remove to change the bonding.

"Real inverters" to me like the Midnight Rosie (stationary model) or Schneider XW don't contain any internal bonding provision. You could jumper neutral and ground inside the wiring compartment if you really wanted to, but the product is designed with a total assumption that you've got a bond outside the inverter in your main panel or disconnect as it should be.

 

[Hedges]

I'm liking your advice . I notice SMA are based in my home town Dallas. I reached out to them . I am genuinely appreciative of your guidance.

They may have an office there but are based out of Germany.
They have manufacturing in Canada and probably US.

SMA invented or pioneered grid-tied PV and AC coupling. They dominated the market 20 years ago (as in, California list of GT PV installs > 50% was SMA, remainder were 20+ different companies.)

Given low-cost competition they've lost leadership position. Then they discontinued Sunny Boy a year or two before releasing Sunny Boy Smart Energy, and wondered why sales plummeted. Perhaps they will even exit that market, only stay in utility scale inverters.

Sunny Boy coupled with Sunny Island is a great grid-backup and offgrid system. Their most recent SB -41 series is supported by SI, but I don't have experience with it; other people here do. I'll be commissioning some soon. My experience is mostly with older SB5000US series.

Both Sunny Island and the Schneider inverter you will find bargains on. Either would be great for off-grid or backup system. If grid tie net metering, you need to see what is allowed.

 

[davefromlondon]

They may have an office there but are based out of Germany.
They have manufacturing in Canada and probably US.

SMA invented or pioneered grid-tied PV and AC coupling. They dominated the market 20 years ago (as in, California list of GT PV installs > 50% was SMA, remainder were 20+ different companies.)

Given low-cost competition they've lost leadership position. Then they discontinued Sunny Boy a year or two before releasing Sunny Boy Smart Energy, and wondered why sales plummeted. Perhaps they will even exit that market, only stay in utility scale inverters.

Sunny Boy coupled with Sunny Island is a great grid-backup and offgrid system. Their most recent SB -41 series is supported by SI, but I don't have experience with it; other people here do. I'll be commissioning some soon. My experience is mostly with older SB5000US series.

Both Sunny Island and the Schneider inverter you will find bargains on. Either would be great for off-grid or backup system. If grid tie net metering, you need to see what is allowed.

Thanks. right now I'm looking at off-grid stand alone solar to run my air conditioner with soft start. , perhaps later with a throw switch to use grid if needed, but for now the focus is to learn all I can about an independent system. I'll worry about grid later