Will's video on victron contains errors, discuss.

[Quattrohead]

I just watched his latest video on the victron inverters and I find it contains several errors and commented as such.
What does our community here think about it?

 

[Leeds]

If your concerns are accurate, then post the detail of what you believe to be in error, along with a link/timestamp and what you propose is the correct info.

If you're correct and there is an error, then this thread can be where that's solved. If you're in error someone will come along to suggest what you've got wrong.

 

[RCinFLA]

Nothing dramatically wrong, other than statement about rating inverter for watts.

All inverters, transformers, and generators are rated for VA not watts. You cannot rate them for watts since it does not know what power factor load you may connect which can require much greater current than the inverter, transformer, or generator can handle.

I thought the Tesla had a good charging power factor in 0.9 range, but maybe it degrades at lower charging current. His 4600 watts draw restriction may be because the Tesla load power factor at that charging level is about 0.76, which would be a VA of 6 kVA.

 

[l00semarble]

"AC output in series for split phase" . I'm sure just a verbo typo.

"

 

[RCinFLA]

"AC output in series for split phase" . I'm sure just a verbo typo.

"

Two inverters run synchronized 180 degrees out of phase and are connected in series.

The statement of two inverter's AC outputs in series for split phase is correct.

 

[l00semarble]

Two inverters run synchronized 180 degrees out of phase and are connected in series.

The statement of two inverter's AC outputs in series for split phase is correct.

You are correct. "Stacking" inverters for split phase is commonly referred to as putting them in series though I also think of series also as when one inverter output feeds the input of another inverter in a "series" fashion (an uncommon application but has been discussed here.)

So lets hear it Quattrohead. What are the errors?

 

[timselectric]

The only thing that jumped out at me, when I watched it. Was that he separated the neutrals and grounds only for the inverter outputs. But, forgot about the loads in the panel.

 

[MajicDiver]

All inverters, transformers, and generators are rated for VA not watts.

You are correct- if the rating of any a/c power generation device is expressed in watts, it must be stated what the power factor is at that watt rating. Most inverters that list a watt rating (and that seems to be many if not most) are using a power factor of 1, which almost never occurs - only if all your loads are pure resistive.

 

[MrM1]

At the end Will seemed to be negative about the costs of Victron. Yes it costs more but it's also tier 1 gear. Not sure that makes it a negative. I have been fiddling around with Growatt junk that won't do what it's supposed to do for 7 weeks now. Back and forth with seller and manufacturer, and the only answer I got was, "you'll have to use batteries that communicate with the SCC".

In some cases time is money. Growatt has cost me a lot of time.

 

[Quattrohead]

So real briefly he says you do not need to keep track of l1 and l2 and that is wrong, it is good practice to know which is l1 and l2 at all times and in some very limited circumstances is actually dangerous if you mix them up. Secondly he was using a circuit breaker per inverter to isolate from the battery and I think that should either be a ganged circuit breaker or only a single circuit breaker feeding both inverters. If one of the inverter's faults on its 48 volt bus you want your whole system shutting down. Electrically does it matter I don't know how the inverter will handle it but it would be dangerous to assume that the other inverter was also off where in fact it was not.
When you are connecting multiple inverters together either to increase the load in parallel or increase the voltage or to make split phase in so-called series then you need to treat those units as a single power supply.

 

[RV10flyer]

He mentioned that inverter output L1 and L2 go into two different breakers. It’s the same breaker, just two different legs of the load panel.

 

[TomC4306]

crease the load in parallel or increase the voltage or to make split phase in so-called series then you need to treat those units as a single power supply.

I don't think this is necessary.
My pair of MPP 3k's are set up split phase.
Each powers a set of 120 circuits. If one goes down, half my circuits are dead but no impact on the other set.
My only concern would be with 240v appliances, which I've not yet connected.

Edit.. and they are treated as a single unit with respect to ocpd. Double pole input breaker, double pole output breaker.

 

[RCinFLA]

Series connected inverters to create 240/120vac not only have constant phase synchronization but also are inter-controlled so if one inverter shuts down for any reason the other also shuts down.

This is required because 240vac loads are being supplied by both inverters.

If you have a series connected inverter setup that does not do this, it is likely a cheap Chinese version that is poorly designed. Sometimes different incompatible firmware versions between the two units may cause this. When you do a firmware update it is important to do it to both units.

One thing I have seen more than once is if grid connected, and AC input circuit breaker is opened, the two units wander apart in phasing. This happens because detecting grid open circuit is hard for inverter. Their synchronization is handled by AC input grid phasing sync if grid is present until they recognize there is no grid present and they switch to inter-inverter control of synchronization where one unit becomes master for phasing sync.

For paralleled inverters this is easy to detect since any phasing mismatch causes overload on inverters. It is not the case for series connected inverters.

 

[sunsurfer]

I love his videos but he needs to redo a video about the nominal voltage bug with the EPEVER. Its well documented and a major problem. I would aslo do an output test EPEVER vs Victron with a rolling cloud day. I think the EPEVERS are very slow and it would be interesting to see what difference speed makes with output.

Keep them coming Will !!