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diy solar

Wind generator with solar panels?

sidpost

New Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Messages
89
Location
Texas, USA
L-500W 12V/24V Wind Turbine

I am looking to bolster low solar output during Winter. In East Texas, I have had periods of up to two weeks with very low or NO solar output with 10~12 230W panel systems.

I have two new systems I'm setting up with more modest power needs. I am looking at a 122Ah 12V battery with possibly a 100W or 180W solar panel. Initially, my base load is 36 Ah so, I generally think anything <= to 200W of solar would be enough. If I add an electric fence charger, that would add ~12Ah to the overall load. Adding another panel would be easy but, that really won't help me deal with long winter periods of low sun exposure.

This gets me to a wind generator. The Instabreeze is the brand I have had recommended to me based on thin scientific and statistical evidence. The L-500 will do ~150W in a 10m/s wind and will run ~500W in 15m/s wind. My initial thought is that this is a lot more power than I need but, it is about as small as practical given the infrastructure needed to make it a viable option.

Realistically, I am into it about $450 once it is wired into my existing planned PV system. What I like is that this gives me power during the night if I have wind and, will serve me well during long overcast periods during Winter. Conversely, with used panels I could do 18 * 180W-200W panels but, the footprint is really too large and it won't deal with the long overcast periods I expect to see.

Is the Instabreeze a good option in general? Or a good option for myself as outlined above? What lessons learned or advice do members have to share as this is really a new option under consideration.

TIA,
Sid
 
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10M/S is about 20MPH. Do you get that kind of steady wind?

In general, wind turbines have moving parts and therefore take a lot more care and feeding. As such, make sure you go with a quality unit.. A *lot* of the low price units are put together in garage shops and will work but not for long. I have never been in a place that had the winds to justify a wind turbine, but if I were to have the need I would find a reputable Marine supply company and ask them what is reliable. Boaters have been using wind turbines for years and they have to work in fairly harsh conditions so a marine outfit will have figured out what does and does not last.

BTW: What do you plan to use for a charge controller and dump load?
 
Diameter 1.15m


150W at 10 m/s, 500W at 15 m/s


I was looking for a good chart of wind speed, swept area, and power. Haven't found one for you yet.
Here's another link, talking about a 500W turbine with 2.5 meter diameter blade. 4.7x the area of the one you're considering.
I think the 150W and 500W figures are "optimistic", suggest you find other references to compare.


A turbine the size you're considering: https://gwstore.co.za/product/air-x-200-land-122448v/

"
ENERGY POTENTIAL40 kWh/month at 13.4 mph (6.0 m/s)
"
That's an average of 55W


A turbine the wattage you think you're going to get: https://gwstore.co.za/product/hm2-5-500watt-24volt-wind-turbine-kit/
 
10M/S is about 20MPH. Do you get that kind of steady wind?

BTW: What do you plan to use for a charge controller and dump load?

I wouldn't say steady 22MPH but, under bad weather when I don't have solar power, 25~35MPH is frequent for sporadic periods of time.

I'm starting with a Renogy Rover Li 20A initially but, will likely upgrade to Midnite Kidd units when those die in 30 minutes or 30 months. My load is going to be a surveillance camera, radio-powered antenna, and likely a low-power electric fence charger.
 
Diameter 1.15m


150W at 10 m/s, 500W at 15 m/s


I was looking for a good chart of wind speed, swept area, and power. Haven't found one for you yet.
Here's another link, talking about a 500W turbine with 2.5 meter diameter blade. 4.7x the area of the one you're considering.
I think the 150W and 500W figures are "optimistic", suggest you find other references to compare.


A turbine the size you're considering: https://gwstore.co.za/product/air-x-200-land-122448v/

"
ENERGY POTENTIAL40 kWh/month at 13.4 mph (6.0 m/s)
"
That's an average of 55W


A turbine the wattage you think you're going to get: https://gwstore.co.za/product/hm2-5-500watt-24volt-wind-turbine-kit/

That South African windmill looks pretty impressive but, it should be for ~$1250USD. ~7.5 feet of rotor area should allow it to turn in less wind but, that also means a more substantial tower that is both taller and stronger adding a lot more expense.
 
^^^ never mind the effect of height. A turbine on the ground VS 50’ above ground or obstructions/trees is a big deal.
Then you have to wonder how it brakes for over-speed. Will it eat itself up with a dead-short-style brake?

there’s millions of dollars 1/2-3/4 mile away on the mountain ridge behind me. For an audited, studied, and implemented powerco wind tower system you’d be surprised how often the rotors do not turn.
 
We thought about getting a turbine for supplemental energy after the sun goes down. We decided that if we added more solar panels it was a better benefit over the course of the day. We may still visit that but around here the winds are not as consistent as other areas due to our topography.

I think it would be cheaper to add in some extra battery storage and some more panels to get extra power during the day to store at night for use.
 
I've had two wind turbines on top of 100ft tower and both have failed within a few years. One an African Windpower and the other a Kestrel. Both had about 7ft diameter swept area. My thought also was it would be good idea to have turbine for winter months but I have never found a trusted source of what a reliable "small" turbine is. It is unfortunate they do not have a standard test rating like we have for PVs.

My current plan is to just add lot more panels for winter. I think most people don't realize that they can "over panel" their charge controller which I did not realize I could do until fairly recently. This isn't talked about as much but notice Will even mentioned doing that in his recent video of the Bluetti. For example, the Victron 250/100 charge controller would say "5600W nominal array" but as long as you stay below 250V Voc and the spec they list of 70A max open circuit amps you can add a lot more than 5600W. I'm planning on over 7000W connected to that charge controller alone. This would mean you could more easily level out the performance of that charge controller from non-sunny days and sunny days and avoids the extra cost of another charge controller and more wiring. Even on completely overcast skies you can produce over 10% of your rating. So I am going to shoot for 20kW total to generate about 2kW even during those completely overcast winter days.
 
I think it would be cheaper to add in some extra battery storage and some more panels to get extra power during the day to store at night for use.

More battery could let you run a day or so in darkness, after saving power from a sunny day

I am looking to bolster low solar output during Winter. In East Texas, I have had periods of up to two weeks with very low or NO solar output with 10~12 230W panel systems.

But for weeks without PV production, more battery isn't cost effective. At some point, self discharge could be an issue. Excessively large battery with not much panels would lose a percentage of production.

My current plan is to just add lot more panels for winter. I think most people don't realize that they can "over panel" their charge controller which I did not realize I could do until fairly recently. ... So I am going to shoot for 20kW total to generate about 2kW even during those completely overcast winter days.

I've observed ~ 10% output on lightly overcast days, ~ 2% on heavily overcast.

For OP, if that small wind turbine was going to deliver about 50W on average around the clock, compare to 200W from PV 6 hours/day. Consider 5000W of PV producing about 4% of its rating, 200W. You can buy 5000W of panels for $1100. (mounting hardware costs additional, and I prefer to pay a bit more for panels that are more wattage for the same area.)


I've read that facing straight up is better than angled toward sun on heavily overcast days, because glowing clouds is the light source. It would probably maintain that output for more hours before dropping off as well.

If you do get plenty of wind during low-solar days, the cheap wind turbine might be worth a try. Make a guyed tower as tall as you can, maybe 60' from three sections of 2" water pipe.

A generator as additional backup would be good.
 
I've observed ~ 10% output on lightly overcast days, ~ 2% on heavily overcast.
This is a good point since "overcast" is a pretty vague term.. I'd like to start tracking ambient light levels with power output although since I'm not grid tied I might not produce what is possible because I don't need the power... I'm producing at least 10% right now and here is what my sky looks like (I do have one 2.5kW pointing straight up):
image-resize-34.jpg
 
OP: what have you done?

Sometimes I’m tempted with wind. I can see about a dozen turbines a mile away behind me. Wind can produce here- but not all the time, not consistent, not something to depend on.

What I can depend on is the low-to-no production from solar this time of year. Wasn’t a ‘problem’ in the past as I haven’t wintered at my location but I’d like to this year. So clouds, freezing temps (water), and heater if I run with the RV furnace instead of an unpowered vented convection heater. But that’s here. When I close on my new property wind is not a useful thought there.

But thinking this through: you need overspeed protection that doesn’t burn up the turbine motor, a rectifier and dump that won’t overvolt the charge controller, a decent tower even in a flat place, and enough storage to buffer low production.
Storage is sortofa big deal because the weather patterns are what? 1-3days in your region? and that could mean clouds and no wind until either sunshine or volatile weather bring that next cycle of usable charging.

Wondering if you’re running and how the system is working.
 
I grew up with Wind Powered water pumps on the family farm so, that is my prior experience.

After doing a lot of research, I opted for better solar panels and I am currently "over-paneled" with more battery storage. In the end, I didn't think the winds were steady enough or reliability was high enough to warrant the cost. I took the money it would have taken and got higher-quality solar panels.

For my application, I didn't need "big power" so, I got double-sided panels which are 370W on the primary face with additional power from the back face if conditions are right.

I encourage you to look at the likelihood of the average wind speeds at your location. In mine,, I rarely get enough windspeed to consistently make the advertised power. If you are on the windward side of a hill or mountain, windpower makes more sense. Also, don't get distracted by commercial wind generators as they perform significantly differently from "homeowner" systems.

Look at the money it will take to install an Instabreeze or similar system and applying that funding to a better solar solution. I suspect you will find "over paneling" is cheaper and will give you the Winter power you want. What it won't do is provide good power if you are socked in with bad weather for weeks at a time. However, there is no guarantee you will have the ~20MPH winds you would need for good windpower either.
 
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Late to this topic, but I have a similar question.

I have 4x 450w panels, in series, so about 160v-192v.
Unfortunately at night I end up using Utility energy as the batteries cannot provide for the entire dusk to dawn.

My question, I have a 48v 500w Wind turbine, and I picked up a cheap 1000v bridge rectifier.
Could I just add this bridge rectifier into my current solar panel series?
( --#-#-#-#-BR-+ ) = ( --48v-48v-48v-48v-48v-+ )

It is only AC to DC right for the aero generator?

I'm not going crazy to think this would work, and supply a little overnight charge to my hybrid invertor?

Let me know, if you know ;-)

Cheers in advance.
 
Could I just add this bridge rectifier into my current solar panel series?
( --#-#-#-#-BR-+ ) = ( --48v-48v-48v-48v-48v-+ )

It is only AC to DC right for the aero generato
Well yes and no. A wind generator needs a rectifier, true, but it also needs voltage control and braking. Unless I’m assuming your question incorrectly.
 
Here is a commercial product meant to go between a wind turbine and charge controller. It limits voltage to prevent damage and has resistors to burn off power. Should give you an idea of protection that might be needed.




Solar charge controllers have an MPPT algorithm to find peak power output from PV.
Those meant for use with wind or hydro turbines have alternate profiles (e.g. constant voltage).
Presumably an alternate source adding power in parallel might work. However, its response time might interact with MPPT algorithm and oscillate, for instance due to rotational inertia.

Here's a bundle with Midnight Classic configured for wind generator.


 
As noted above, the voltage spikes from a Wind Turbine will destroy your Solar components if you don't have the parts in place appropriate for it.

My friend runs a similar Wind Generator and has a "special" charge controller that dumps the power into a large 48VDC lead-acid battery system since the batteries are more tolerant of the voltage profile of the wind turbine than Lithiums.

A 48V wind generator is only 48V at very specific wind velocities. Of course, the wind speed varies a great deal so direct voltage swings can be very large.
 
Small wind and hydro is typically permanent magnet, more efficient but variable output.
If it used an automotive alternator, output voltage could be regulated by varying current in rotor windings.
You still wouldn't want it to ever get disconnected (like a BMS might do) because then voltage shoots up with load suddenly removed.
 
Thanks chaps.
I started this as well as a 'Newcomer' as I was about to test my theory, and was hoping for a response before my madness.

This is a small turbine, and I believe has a max output of 48v. So I assume it would just add a little power sporadically to my setup.
The DC power generated after the bridge rectifier matches the panels I have, so I assumed it could be compatible in the current series that I am running.

My hybrid inverter is a MPPT, VMIII (Voltronic).
 
Biggest issue to consider is when battery is full and there is a gust of wind.
What voltage will wind turbine put onto MPPT input?

The PV array in parallel may actually make a great shunt regulator and dump load. Although, in my experience the current PV array draws from externally applied power is much lower than I expected; that is, I had to use 2 PV panels in series in the sun connected to 1 PV panel in total darkness to get any interesting current through it.
So a large PV array might serve to clamp voltage from a small wind turbine. Just make sure PV can't get disconnected. Maybe nothing else will be needed to make this work. Be sure of what Voc it can reach before connecting MPPT, because I think voltage could go over PV Voc on a sunny, windy day.
 
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