Worth it to upgrade from Magnum Energy MS-PAE to EG4 12000XP?

[ddxv]

Trying to complete an upgrade for my parents setup. I put most of it in about 10 years ago, and recently I about quadrupled the PV for them but now need to upgrade the solar charge controller from Midnite Classic 250 to a charge controller(s) at higher voltages.

My constraint, other than money of course, is the physical space is very limited, and so while looking at adding 2-3 new SCC I started thinking about perhaps it would be better to switch the inverter to an All-In-One so I could take advantage of the space savings.

The current inverter is a Magnum Energy MS4448PAE which has worked flawlessly for years. The mark of something great is when we've never even thought about it, so I'm a bit hesitant that the EG4 12000XP might bring unforeseen problems.




The other issue, is the confined space. Both sides have windows, so there is OK air flow, but it's much tighter than the recommended gaps on the right.


So the cons:
1. If it's not broke, don't fix it for the MS4448PAE
2. Overly tight space on the right of the future EG4 12000XP. That side has the fans, left side has the filters (which I think is the intake?).

Pros:
1. Bigger inverter for more power. I'd love for them to have at least a bit of AC for hot days which seem more numerous lately.
2. 12000XP has two MPPT with high amps ~44a input for each so no need for external solar charge controller.

The mess of wires on the top is the AC -> 12V DC for pump/lights etc.

What are your thoughts? Anything I'm missing?

 

[DIYrich]

You need at least 29 inches from the right wall. 21 inches for the inverter, and 8 inches for air. With air filters on the left, the fans are pulling from the left, and blowing out to the right. It needs the 8 inches on the right to avoid exhaust issues.

 

[seneysolar]

Id leave it until it fails, which might be several years.

If you do get something different, youll likely want a location thats not in your living space.

There are a few options out there for reliable high voltage charge controllers. Midnite, Morningstar and Victron are solid choices.

 

[ddxv]

You need at least 29 inches from the right wall. 21 inches for the inverter, and 8 inches for air. With air filters on the left, the fans are pulling from the left, and blowing out to the right. It needs the 8 inches on the right to avoid exhaust issues.

Where did you get those

You need at least 29 inches from the right wall. 21 inches for the inverter, and 8 inches for air. With air filters on the left, the fans are pulling from the left, and blowing out to the right. It needs the 8 inches on the right to avoid exhaust issues.

Yep, those are the right numbers from the EG4 docs. Unfortunately the space only has 26" so short 3 or 4 for the exhaust side.

 

[Quattrohead]

If it is in a conditioned space I wouldn't worry too much about that gap but note that these inverters do get rowdy when working hard.

 

[ddxv]

If it is in a conditioned space I wouldn't worry too much about that gap but note that these inverters do get rowdy when working hard.

Yeah? I saw that they say it's ~60 decibels, and played around with a decibel app on my phone, but it wasn't very productive. Do you feel like they're pretty noisy?

 

[seneysolar]

Yeah? I saw that they say it's ~60 decibels, and played around with a decibel app on my phone, but it wasn't very productive. Do you feel like they're pretty noisy?

I definitely would not want it in my living space. Yes its noisy. Id compare it to a hair dryer but i think youll get several different opinions on that.

 

[DIYrich]

Right now, he has a 4.4kW inverter. If it is replaced with a 6kW inverter, it might not be that noisy.

Might want to consider the Growatt SPH 10000TL-HU-US, and mount it outside. It is IP65 (outdoor) rated. $2,500, about the same price as the 12000xp, which is IP20 rate (not outdoors)

 

[ddxv]

Right now, he has a 4.4kW inverter. If it is replaced with a 6kW inverter, it might not be that noisy.

Might want to consider the Growatt SPH 10000TL-HU-US, and mount it outside. It is IP65 (outdoor) rated. $2,500, about the same price as the 12000xp, which is IP20 rate (not outdoors)

Thank you, that Growatt SPH looks great, and I hadn't seen it before, but at a glance it looks like it matches most of what we need. Honestly, didn't even know some inverters could be outside in the snow and rain, so I'll definitely need to look into that more.

 

[Fisherguy66]

The Magnasine's are beasts, built like tanks. They are older tech though and not well thought through for when Lithium started exploding. They've been doing some catching up and tbh I don't know how much longer they will produce with the miriad of companies out there now. I have a friend that has the exact same inverter with 3 -200Ah Lynac lithium batts. The system works flawless too when its set up correctly except for one issue here https://diysolarforum.com/threads/m...-power-to-house-with-generator-running.97717/ . It can get quite loud though when pulling watts or pushing pv to charge thats why its in the garage. Its up to you what you decide but keep the magnasine around if you don't like your other choice.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Please don't downgrade your system.

 

[menchelke]

EG 4 does make a pretty affordable standalone charge controller. https://eg4electronics.com/categori...ppt/mppt100-48hv-eg4-solar-charge-controller/

 

[wild01]

don't try to hybridize them together whatever you do, the old magnasine prewired panels goundbond all dc negatives, array battery etc to ac ground. If you switch over rewire everything!!!

 

[ddxv]

don't try to hybridize them together whatever you do, the old magnasine prewired panels goundbond all dc negatives, array battery etc to ac ground. If you switch over rewire everything!!!

What do you mean "magnasine prewired panels", were those panels manufactured under the Magnasine name? We recently switched from the Magnasine Inverter to EG4 12000XP, I haven't seen any issues like that, but want to make sure I didn't miss anything. The old panels are still there as well, though they were not branded Magnasine.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Trying to complete an upgrade for my parents setup. I put most of it in about 10 years ago, and recently I about quadrupled the PV for them but now need to upgrade the solar charge controller from Midnite Classic 250 to a charge controller(s) at higher voltages.

My constraint, other than money of course, is the physical space is very limited, and so while looking at adding 2-3 new SCC I started thinking about perhaps it would be better to switch the inverter to an All-In-One so I could take advantage of the space savings.

The current inverter is a Magnum Energy MS4448PAE which has worked flawlessly for years. The mark of something great is when we've never even thought about it, so I'm a bit hesitant that the EG4 12000XP might bring unforeseen problems.

View attachment 253726


The other issue, is the confined space. Both sides have windows, so there is OK air flow, but it's much tighter than the recommended gaps on the right.


So the cons:
1. If it's not broke, don't fix it for the MS4448PAE
2. Overly tight space on the right of the future EG4 12000XP. That side has the fans, left side has the filters (which I think is the intake?).

Pros:
1. Bigger inverter for more power. I'd love for them to have at least a bit of AC for hot days which seem more numerous lately.
2. 12000XP has two MPPT with high amps ~44a input for each so no need for external solar charge controller.

The mess of wires on the top is the AC -> 12V DC for pump/lights etc.

What are your thoughts? Anything I'm missing?

going price for a undamaged used Magnum 4448 PAE starts at 1200 and goes as high as 1500.... whats the going price on any used AIO?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

What do you mean "magnasine prewired panels", were those panels manufactured under the Magnasine name? We recently switched from the Magnasine Inverter to EG4 12000XP, I haven't seen any issues like that, but want to make sure I didn't miss anything. The old panels are still there as well, though they were not branded Magnasine.

prewired power panels either by magnum or by midnite solar...it has all the bussbars internal to the cabinet as well as breakers etc. along with all of the needed certs to use it in a renewable electrical system in the US

 

[ddxv]

prewired power panels either by magnum or by midnite solar...it has all the bussbars internal to the cabinet as well as breakers etc. along with all of the needed certs to use it in a renewable electrical system in the US

Ah, I see. I was confused thinking you meant solar panels. Yeah, the epanel, as ours was called, was wired as you said. I always thought that was interesting but didn't understand it.

I removed the epanel as well so they are not hybridized.

 

[wild01]

What do you mean "magnasine prewired panels", were those panels manufactured under the Magnasine name? We recently switched from the Magnasine Inverter to EG4 12000XP, I haven't seen any issues like that, but want to make sure I didn't miss anything. The old panels are still there as well, though they were not branded Magnasine.

Not solar panels, sorry if that was unclear, in the op's original pic the inverter is mounted to a low profile electrical panel, the front cover is hinged, and you can swing the inverter to the side. there are ac and dc bus bars inside and solar breakers shunts lightning arrestors, charge controllers, etc mounted to the sides. these panels came completely prewired- just hook up your battery and array and go. That is what I'm referring to. they came with everything grounded and bonded together. hv dc, low voltage dc, & ac. While this was functional for the system that came installed on them, it is not functional for newer aio systems

 

[HardYakka]

I have 4448's and 6000XP's ... I'm very disappointed the Magnums are going away and as SSego says, why downgrade to a Readers Digest manual and the "trust me" OS. When the 4448 goes away, which could be years still there will be more technological advances in products to look at.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I have 4448's and 6000XP's ... I'm very disappointed the Magnums are going away and as SSego says, why downgrade to a Readers Digest manual and the "trust me" OS. When the 4448 goes away, which could be years still there will be more technological advances in products to look at.

bump that I am skimming the for sale adds daily to add spares into my inventory. A lot of the forum members do not agree with me, but I start things with a 4.4kW inverter that they often times have trouble with on a 12 or 16kW AIO. like I mentioned in another post I watched a motor that was dead smoke till the brushs caught on fire (could not move fast enough to stop it). the magnum did not care and i am still using it.

 

[HardYakka]

I'm going to join you in the search.. Hopefully EG4 and RUIXU read our posts.. Here is what happened today.

RUIXU's battery displays unequal LED status lights, 2 show 25-50% the other 4 75-100 so I was told by RUIXU to charge to 56.2vdc which I tried to do changing all the appropriate configuration setting to reflect 52vdc start, end 56.2 VOL. Other posts on a different thread suggested the same, shutdown and restarted. 6000 would only charge to 54.1 and the genny ran for 1 hour or so with the 6000 displaying appx 1.41k into the battery but VOL didn't change.

RUIXU tech support and others on this site said to upgrade the firmware and check status with RUIXU monitor. HA!! It won't open.

So I can't upgrade the battery firmware, the EG4 will not charge up to the GEN charge limit after a couple hours of running plus we actually had sunshine today to add to the input.
I direct connected to the 6000 and it reports the battery BMS is only a 55Ah charge limit ?? Spec's say 70ah.

Then I disconnected the comms between the battery stack to plug in the RS cable to laptop (which I had to repurpose from another 24x7 app) and when I did that the Inverter quit generating AC.. GEE battery cables hookup to 6000 can't measure voltage any other way???

I quit for today as none of this nonsense would of happened with the Magnums.. if I wanted to charge up to 58 it would

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I'm going to join you in the search.. Hopefully EG4 and RUIXU read our posts.. Here is what happened today.

RUIXU's battery displays unequal LED status lights, 2 show 25-50% the other 4 75-100 so I was told by RUIXU to charge to 56.2vdc which I tried to do changing all the appropriate configuration setting to reflect 52vdc start, end 56.2 VOL. Other posts on a different thread suggested the same, shutdown and restarted. 6000 would only charge to 54.1 and the genny ran for 1 hour or so with the 6000 displaying appx 1.41k into the battery but VOL didn't change.

RUIXU tech support and others on this site said to upgrade the firmware and check status with RUIXU monitor. HA!! It won't open.

So I can't upgrade the battery firmware, the EG4 will not charge up to the GEN charge limit after a couple hours of running plus we actually had sunshine today to add to the input.
I direct connected to the 6000 and it reports the battery BMS is only a 55Ah charge limit ?? Spec's say 70ah.

Then I disconnected the comms between the battery stack to plug in the RS cable to laptop (which I had to repurpose from another 24x7 app) and when I did that the Inverter quit generating AC.. GEE battery cables hookup to 6000 can't measure voltage any other way???

I quit for today as none of this nonsense would of happened with the Magnums

just as I see a lot of com issues with AIO's i also see a lot of the pre-made batteries that cannot hold a balance and then go offline as a result. does your battery pack allow you to see the individual cells voltage via the BMS? (mind you thats one of the primary reasons for the battery to AIO coms so that they can actually adjust charging profile to keep the battery balanced).
If it does I bet you see a huge imbalance between one or two of the cells and that's whats stopping your charging... if so gut it replace it with a stand alone BMS and set the inverter to run with no comms 55.6 volt charge profile. I bet it solves all of the problems that the AIO was supposed to solve with its "communications with the battery"
the CCP probably stole the basic programs from some german or american engineering company and do not understand it themselves, but try to force it to work with their gear which they probably copied from some other countries IP and have not figured out how to make it work themselves.

anyway i digress. i will continue to use my ancient junk that for some strange reason just works. I walk away from my system for 1-2 weeks at a time even in the winter. and the units are working in the winter powering the house, the batteries are charging, inverters inverting, SCC charging... all separate legacy items except for the battery which i built, and it all just works... don't be bidding shit up on ebay.... contact me first (only slightly joking) I don't want a bidding war with another forum member

 

[HardYakka]

I have an old non functioning 4448 that I've never tried to repair if your interested. Have the two new 4448's, one still in that box with all LiPo controllers, etc.

I'll let you know by PM if I see something bid worthy. Going to look for the Magnum mounting panels (MPxxx) I've only run the others in single mode, might PM you.

The 6000's can go up to vineyard shop and to another barn to use as a backup for some remote appliances. Good used panels is all that's needed for those sites.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I have an old non functioning 4448 that I've never tried to repair if your interested. Have the two new 4448's, one still in that box with all LiPo controllers, etc.

I'll let you know by PM if I see something bid worthy. Going to look for the Magnum mounting panels (MPxxx) I've only run the others in single mode, might PM you.

The 6000's can go up to vineyard shop and to another barn to use as a backup for some remote appliances. Good used panels is all that's needed for those sites.

I am not even sure what te specs are on the 4448 that is a non PAE version. all of mine are PAE's are you reffering to the 4048 by any chance?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

mine are all 120/240 split phase the 4400 is strictly a 120 volt version but can put out the full 4kw into 120 volts where aas the 4448 PAE can only put out 2200 per leg at 120 so L1 to N 120, 2200 watts, L2 to N 120, 2200 watts, and L1 to L2 240 4400 watts total.