diy solar

diy solar

Would you recommend grid tied solar to your friends?

Would you recommend grid tied solar to your friends?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 23.5%
  • Yes, but under $2/W installed

    Votes: 8 15.7%
  • DIY only

    Votes: 15 29.4%
  • No, to much hassle with Net-Zero in 30 years

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • No

    Votes: 7 13.7%
  • Other, see post below...

    Votes: 5 9.8%
  • Off Grid (homes, campers, conversions, emergency power backup)

    Votes: 21 41.2%
  • Not in CA in NEMs 3.0 is enacted

    Votes: 2 3.9%

  • Total voters
    51

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
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Update: Apologies, no option to edit the choices in the poll to make them clearer, but when written originally they were meant as "grid-tied" options (e.g., grid assist), mainly because off-grid usage usually has no other practical alternatives to supply power. The poll has a few additions based on feedback and is now multi-select so you can pick more than one.

Update2: The under $2/W installed is a poorly worded option, it was just picked as a ballpark figure. Really it should be more of "if the payback period is acceptable" as the amount is very dependant on the local net-metering agreement, the cost of electricity, and the need to have backup power.

Previously it made good sense IMO for homeowners to go solar as with a good net-metering plan it was cheaper than the utility and you were doing your bit to reduce greenhouse gases.

But now, utilities are building solar and wind farms (they know it's cheaper than fuel costs) and there is a global mandate to be net-zero by 2050. Whether you have solar or not, you'll probably be taxed into helping to pay for those costs. So, doing it for the environment might not make sense anymore.

Economically, net-metering is constantly under attack. Even if it hasn't been struck down utilities have started separating "power" from the rest of the bill. For example where I live power went from being 11¢ to 14¢ per kWh to being 7¢ to 10¢. The total bill amount hasn't gone down, just the "rate" for the power portion.

"Professionally" installed at anything over ~$3/W isn't that viable at 10¢ (assuming an average insolation of 4, a 7 kW array would generate 28 kWh/d, at 10¢/kWh a value of $2.80 per day, taking 20 years to pay off (the life of the system)). Energy prices will continue to increase, so that's probably a bit pessimistic. It also doesn't include other factors, e.g., the value of having renewable power during a crisis (e.g., hurricane) or when your utility routinely shuts off power due to high winds or other reasons.

DIY solar still seems economical at $1/W (e.g., a panel is 47¢/W, and on average generates 4 wh, an inverter runs about 22¢/w), so a 7 kW array would run ~$7000 and payoff under 7 years at 10¢/kWh.

What do you all think? Would you still recommend solar for your friends?
 
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I have but its complicated...

I live in a tribal community and they have a place that is about as perfect as one could wish for to place solar, other than it being a little ways from the places its needed....which would not be a problem given how good the sun is... I've mentioned this but there is zero interest here.

They will place walls of murals demanded the damns be removed though. I've heard different arguments on that (both for and against).

I know someone who goes to all the pipeline protest...he puts about 65,000 miles a year on his four door truck doing just that....

So...its the politics of it all that throw me off even suggesting it. We have a great place to do it, people should be behind it 100%, and I'm sure the political side (politicians) would fund it given the right "optics" push (helping rural tribal communities be 100% "green".

But it'll never happen....depressing....

In the end I've decided that humanity will bounce around until things reach a tipping point (for what ever reason) and things will go bang. So I've just figured I'd do my best to make my place a place that is substainble as best as I can and not worry too much about the rest.
 
I give them one of these to try first, to see if it is for them:

And then it would only be for their cottage purposes. Finland + solar is a niche.
 
as a backup
enough capacity to keep a fridge, freezer and some led lights going for a couple days considering the appliances really don't need to be running constantly if you don't keep opening the damn door.

I know a gas/propane generator is generally a better option but last time the SHTF here it was impossible to get gas. Then there's the maintenance impaired like me that will forget the generator for months/years on end only to find it won't start when I need it.

Besides it's kind of cool having a small array in the backyard
 
Would you still recommend solar for your friends?

Given that my friends are boondocking in deserts or national forests, yes. It's relatively $$ by the watt but makes power silently sitting in the middle of nowhere.

If the question is only about residential solar it might get more traction in that subforum.
 
I think your pole is missing an off grid and /or grid assist only option.

I recommend diy off grid and grid assist. I tell people when the door to door grid tie salesman come knocking they better read the find print.
 
I think your pole is missing an off grid and /or grid assist only option.

I recommend diy off grid and grid assist. I tell people when the door to door grid tie salesman come knocking they better read the find print.

Agree. Off-grid/grid assist. Back-up if the grid goes out. Slam the door on the grid-tie salesman! I bet they were pushing heavy before the New Year.

I have gas inverter generators, but when the power goes out it is usually cold and wet outside. 720w of solar. 480ah of LiFePO4. 24v system. I don't have a transfer switch so I'm still messing around with extension cords but I'd still be doing that with the gas generator.

A Maxoak EB240 in family room gets everything up and running without having to go outside. Smaller Maxoak's around the house as needed. I have two smaller solar panel systems to keep the Maxoaks topped off. No SCC needed, just panels and cables.
 
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I don't know squat about "Net Metering" or tying into the grid. Have no interest in the grid at this point in time.
I live in "Coal Country" and electricity is cheap. Around here most folks (not us) are wasteful and benefit in one way or another by the coal mines.

I do know there's a nice chunk of change in the fridge & freezer. I doubt our homeowners insurance will pay out on a thawed/rotten mess of food.
I also know I don't want to freeze my skinny butt if the grid goes down in the dead of Winter.

It makes sense to me and the boss lady to have some type of back up system to keep us going when the grid goes down.

FYI the neighbors are already laughing at us for going solar. Generators are common, solar panels are extremely rare.
Hope that was close enough to "On Topic" for ya.
 
What do you all think? Would you still recommend solar for your friends?
Depends where you are.

In Australia a typical grid-tied solar PV system installed by solar PV professionals costs ~US$0.60-0.85/W. Premium systems (e.g. high end panels + Enphase micro inverters) are ~US$1.00/W or so.

Over 15 years each W of PV here will generate ~22kWh (give or take) at cost of US$0.025-0.04/kWh depending on individual system.

Import tariffs are circa US$0.15-0.25/kWh while feed-in tariffs are currently ~US$0.05-0.10 and while falling, feed-in tariffs are unlikely to go below the cost of home solar PV production. Retirement of more coal power plants over the coming decade will keep the daytime renewable demand up even though grid scale renewables are going up at a rapid rate. Payback on these home solar PV systems is typically 4-6 years.

It's a no brainer if you have suitable roof space for solar PV, expect to be in your current home for the next 5+ years and can spare the $.

We have saved A$3.2k/year in electricity bills on a system which cost us A$12.8k. In 10-12 months from now our system will have paid for itself and be expected to keep reaping savings for many years to come. I reckon the inverter will last 12-15 years, the panels circa 25 years.
 
Not in California. Not until we see if NEM 3.0 gets imposed as proposed; it will credit generation backfed to the grid 25% ($0.05/kWh) but tax all production capacity (whether backfed or used immediately) at $0.05/kWh.
 
I think everyone should have some form of photovoltaic solar power or even thermal, if for no other reason than to provide a cool reminder of the wireless power transmission capabilities of the nearest nuclear fusion reactor ?



these two are ones i like. they are self contained solar systems :)

due to the complexity of larger scale builds, i like to recommend small scale things like a <400 watt hour battery solar charging to power phone and other small devices.

i hope many people will continue to cultivate knowledge about powering their life with free sky energy, and enjoy the release of tension associated with needing to continually pay money to receive electric power
 
encouraging solar use for primarily economic reasons of kwh per usd, is a natural common motivation

having lights when the grid goes down motivates me strongly, and justifies a higher price vs the unit energy cost from wall outlet

of course it varies from person to person

independent infrastructure for basics of life is quite valuable if appraised to be so :)
 
Given that my friends are boondocking in deserts or national forests, yes. It's relatively $$ by the watt but makes power silently sitting in the middle of nowhere.
You and a few others (e.g., @MrM1, @Brassburnz, @upnorthandpersonal, @wiseacre) all made good points about various off-grid usage so I updated the poll to add that. Off-grid did occur to me, but sadly only in the vein of residential where I believe Solar is the only practical choice (unless the property just happens to have geothermal or hydro available).

Also modified the poll to multi-select so you could select all the categories in which you'd recommend solar. Finally added @Hedges' wait and see regarding NEMs 3.0. Thanks for the suggestions!
 
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...Hope that was close enough to "On Topic" for ya....
Exactly on target, the purpose of the thread/pole is for people thinking about solar to get an idea as to when it's right for them. With the suggested changes from posters I suspect some of the "yes" votes may change.

I appreciate everyone's feedback!
 
Absolutely!
In Australia, you can get fully installed prices (after a rebate that you don't have to worry about as the consumer) for well under US$0.50/W. Payback periods tend to be four years or less. I tell anyone that will listen to get solar!
 
Absolutely!
In Australia, you can get fully installed prices (after a rebate that you don't have to worry about as the consumer) for well under US$0.50/W. Payback periods tend to be four years or less. I tell anyone that will listen to get solar!
$0.50/Watt is a heck of a deal! Wish that was the common price here.
 
Not in California. Not until we see if NEM 3.0 gets imposed as proposed; it will credit generation backfed to the grid 25% ($0.05/kWh) but tax all production capacity (whether backfed or used immediately) at $0.05/kWh.
How will they tax if used immediately? Here we have a single bidirectional meter that has two readings. If my consumption is 5800 watts at noon on a sunny day nothing moves in of out through the meter at that point in time. Currently there owe me 3000 kw.
 
I didn’t put solar in to save the world. I didn’t put it in to save money either. I put it in for security and maybe it will break even money wise some day.
In my area, years ago the power would go off most summer days for several hours in the afternoon into the evening. Also a few strings of days of outage.
Grid is great now. Rarely goes down, mostly when someone runs over a pole.
But if you think of what life would be like without power.
 
I didn’t put solar in to save the world. I didn’t put it in to save money either. I put it in for security and maybe it will break even money wise some day.
In my area, years ago the power would go off most summer days for several hours in the afternoon into the evening. Also a few strings of days of outage.
Grid is great now. Rarely goes down, mostly when someone runs over a pole.
But if you think of what life would be like without power.
Me too. I voted for off grid/backup.
The USA is very vulnerable to the grid being disabled for several months.
I can't imagine living without ac in the summertime in Tennessee. :)
 
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