wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
You are going to need a pretty hefty 120V socket and a Giant Extension Cord to charge at 3-5KW. Think clothes dryer.
Does Victron make a 5kVA inverter without a charger?
- Thread starter oceanrider
- Start date
Brucey
Solar Wizard
Yes at 3k levels a 100Ah should be fine.
My experience is that Victron inverters can get grumpy with dirty power from an open frame generator. I had to deploy software settings Victron describes in their generator FAQs which resulted in slower charging and potentially passing through power that's not ideal for sensitive electronics.
My #1 reason for using the EG4 100 amp battery charger - I refuse to use their stupid marketing-bred brand name - is to only supply the house with clean Victron inverter AC and never pass through potentially questionable generator AC. A discreet battery charger avoids the risks that Victron described below, e.g. when a substandard backup-backup generator is used.
Can one use a sub-standard generator and adjust the Multiplus II settings to charge the batteries and pass-through cruddy power to home appliances? Yes, but why do that when a $450 battery charger totally eliminates the possibility of ever needing to do that.
From Victron:
MultiPlus Generator FAQ [Victron Energy]
www.victronenergy.com
Software Settings
The settings which you should attempt first are 'Disable UPS mode' and 'Enable Dynamic Current limiting'. These compromise features, but maintain the quality of the power supply.If the generator will still not synchronise or disconnects, try turning on the setting for Weak AC. This will compromise efficiency, but allow for a wider variation in wave form distortion to be accepted.
Lastly, adjusting the settings for Voltage and Frequency windows. These are higher risk to your appliances, they should only be used cautiously when it is confirmed that the loads will tolerate the out of specification power supply. This should be done by a competent technician with the aid of a multimeter and only opened so far as to allow for safe functionality.
Electrical current will go through the MultiPlus only if it meets the programmed minimal quality requirements; in that way the MultiPlus protects the electrical supply of delicate equipment.
Warning: changing these settings will allow to feed-through current that may be of insufficient quality for the electrical requirements of your equipment.
For information on VEConfigure and how to get started, please see this VE Configure Software page, or contact your local Victron dealer.
Last edited:
oceanrider
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2022
- Messages
- 50
Thank you for your input on thisMy experience is that Victron inverters can get grumpy with dirty power from an open frame generator. I had to deploy software settings Victron describes in their generator FAQs which resulted in slower charging and potentially passing through power that's not ideal for sensitive electronics.
My #1 reason for using the EG4 100 amp battery charger - I refuse to use their stupid marketing-bred brand name - is to only supply the house with clean Victron inverter AC and never pass through potentially questionable generator AC. A discreet battery charger avoids the risks that Victron describes below, e.g. when a substandard backup-backup generator is used.
Can one use a sub-standard generator and adjust the Multiplus II settings to charge the batteries and pass-through cruddy power to home appliances? Yes, but why do that when a $450 battery charger totally eliminates the possibility of ever needing to do that.
From Victron:
MultiPlus Generator FAQ [Victron Energy]
Software Settings
The settings which you should attempt first are 'Disable UPS mode' and 'Enable Dynamic Current limiting'. These compromise features, but maintain the quality of the power supply.
If the generator will still not synchronise or disconnects, try turning on the setting for Weak AC. This will compromise efficiency, but allow for a wider variation in wave form distortion to be accepted.
Lastly, adjusting the settings for Voltage and Frequency windows. These are higher risk to your appliances, they should only be used cautiously when it is confirmed that the loads will tolerate the out of specification power supply. This should be done by a competent technician with the aid of a multimeter and only opened so far as to allow for safe functionality.
Electrical current will go through the MultiPlus only if it meets the programmed minimal quality requirements; in that way the MultiPlus protects the electrical supply of delicate equipment.
Warning: changing these settings will allow to feed-through current that may be of insufficient quality for the electrical requirements of your equipment.
For information on VEConfigure and how to get started, please see this VE Configure Software page, or contact your local Victron dealer.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
My experience is that Victron inverters can get grumpy with dirty power from an open frame generator. I had to deploy software settings Victron describes in their generator FAQs which resulted in slower charging and potentially passing through power that's not ideal for sensitive electronics.
My #1 reason for using the EG4 100 amp battery charger - I refuse to use their stupid marketing-bred brand name - is to only supply the house with clean Victron inverter AC and never pass through potentially questionable generator AC. A discreet battery charger avoids the risks that Victron describes below, e.g. when a substandard backup-backup generator is used.
Can one use a sub-standard generator and adjust the Multiplus II settings to charge the batteries and pass-through cruddy power to home appliances? Yes, but why do that when a $450 battery charger totally eliminates the possibility of ever needing to do that.
From Victron:
MultiPlus Generator FAQ [Victron Energy]
Software Settings
The settings which you should attempt first are 'Disable UPS mode' and 'Enable Dynamic Current limiting'. These compromise features, but maintain the quality of the power supply.
If the generator will still not synchronise or disconnects, try turning on the setting for Weak AC. This will compromise efficiency, but allow for a wider variation in wave form distortion to be accepted.
Lastly, adjusting the settings for Voltage and Frequency windows. These are higher risk to your appliances, they should only be used cautiously when it is confirmed that the loads will tolerate the out of specification power supply. This should be done by a competent technician with the aid of a multimeter and only opened so far as to allow for safe functionality.
Electrical current will go through the MultiPlus only if it meets the programmed minimal quality requirements; in that way the MultiPlus protects the electrical supply of delicate equipment.
Warning: changing these settings will allow to feed-through current that may be of insufficient quality for the electrical requirements of your equipment.
For information on VEConfigure and how to get started, please see this VE Configure Software page, or contact your local Victron dealer.
IMHO, your issue is a dirty generator.
The chargeverter costs more than my $400 crummy open frame Predator generator that produces 60±2Hz power. Yeah, it's a little dirty, but the only thing it affects is the electric blanket that has a shutoff timer that apparently uses the 60Hz signal to keep track of time.
Exactly. Dirty generators happen. Why worry? Run that dirty old cheap generator through a battery charger and enjoy crystal clean Blue & Orange AC power from the inverter.
What happens when that $400 crummy open frame Harbor Freight generator pukes? Maybe the user has three backups or maybe they need to borrow a crummier generator from their pal Lefty in order to keep their freezers running. In your scenario they may need to pull out the Victron manual and continue to adjust settings to keep the generator charging, maybe passing on cruddy power to their sensitive electronics. With a battery charger they plug in the crappy generator worry about nothing at all.
Running any generator through a tolerant battery charger eliminates the risk of passing crappy power to the house and having to derate the charge rate.
Discrete battery chargers > inverter/chargers in all of my real-life use-cases.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
6500W Onan
3500W Coleman
24V/2kW backup inverter with 4.8kWh of lead acid kept floated at all times.
"Sensitive electronics" is mostly a FUD term these days. You know there are still MSW inverters still out there - lots of them, which make almost any generator look like sparkling clear power. Some things won't work (my electric blanket), but MOST things barely care. Anything that goes through a switching power supply doesn't give two craps.
Don't extrapolate your dirty generator experience to everybody. My experience is more typical than yours, and it includes generators on Victrons in AZ (mine), Maine, Oregon and Lithuania. All work flawlessly without the "generator FAQ" settings applied (not a single one).
If I have to spend $900-1000 on a generator and a Chargeverter, I'd prefer to just get a bigger generator with nearly 2X the output.
There are good reasons to get a chargeverter. If you have a shitty generator, then that's a good one. Not all generators are shitty.
I was clearly not talking about you and your vast stable of non-shitty generators. I was talking about a generic user and his pal Lefty who may need to get through a troublesome time some day when they don't want to run down a list of settings to charge their batteries because the Blue & Orange is grumpy with their generator. For that user it may simply be easier and more simple to charge their batteries with a simple battery charger rather than risking the challenges of charging batteries AND running the household on a crappy generator which may be all they have available.
Show me where I extrapolated. "My real-life use cases" is the opposite of extrapolation.
You do you with your remarkably typical experiences while your shitty electric blanket fails to work properly running on your non-shitty generators. Funny, I've never had that experience but I guess I'm not typical.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Anybody off grid or using equipment for backup should know their shit. No excuse for having to look up critical settings. There's only two that really matter, and only one that cuts output to 80%. This is a DIY forum. Not a SEDIFY (somebody else do it for you) forum.
Anyone running their own system that can't overcome a problem that is answered in the manual should have SEDIFY.
Your only solution is a DC charger because of the risk of a potentially dirty generator and on of the most tolerant inverter/chargers on the planet. Chargeverter exists because of the horrific intolerance of voltronics AiO of non-inverter generator power.
Thanks. Same to you. You missed the point. My generator is shitty enough to produce a ±2Hz variation, but the Quattros handle it just fine, and the ONLY thing in the trailer that has a problem with it is the electric blanket. No lights flicker/pulse, the microwave, fridge, TV, router, etc., all work flawlessly.
exmarkretired
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2022
- Messages
- 53
I would try the Victron with his "dirty" generator. It will probably be fine. If not, he can still buy the charger.
My suggestion would be. Buy a small portable generator and run the Multiplus in "power assist" mode. Sunshine_eggo help me with proper terms ? if I have the Victron wording off a little. With small generator He might find he never needs to charge at home..... Another forum user makes a 2000 watt quiet generator work all day with a 5KVA multiplus ii. Then OP can park/move when he chooses to....not on someone else's schedule
One of the considerations for me choosing Victron was it's ability to function with "dirty power" and weak shore power, eliminating the additional cost of a second charger.... Which may go towards a better generator ??? or rooftop solar ?
My suggestion would be. Buy a small portable generator and run the Multiplus in "power assist" mode. Sunshine_eggo help me with proper terms ? if I have the Victron wording off a little. With small generator He might find he never needs to charge at home..... Another forum user makes a 2000 watt quiet generator work all day with a 5KVA multiplus ii. Then OP can park/move when he chooses to....not on someone else's schedule
One of the considerations for me choosing Victron was it's ability to function with "dirty power" and weak shore power, eliminating the additional cost of a second charger.... Which may go towards a better generator ??? or rooftop solar ?
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Likewise.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Yep. PowerAssist.
That's an interesting thought. It's a workable approach as my generator is notably undersized for my 10kVA system, but PowerAssist makes it a non-issue.
That would also make the smaller 3kVA MP-II more practical as output current wouldn't be so important, but it would eliminate fast charging from shore if that becomes an option.
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