EG4-LL v1 BMS Communication “Float Stoped”

[ricardocello]

Background
I’ve decided to go back to open loop control on my 3 EG4-LL v1 devices, after 6 months of doing it closed loop with a Victron Cerbo GX via CAN.
The closed loop control worked reasonably well, but now my batteries are out of balance, and I have too many unanswered questions about the BMS.

I plan to put a Raspberry Pi4 in my battery rack, and monitor the three modules via RS-485 so I can at least see what the cells are doing.
I’ve found the modbus protocol description for this BMS online, but could also just look at BMS_Tools for the protocol used.

I’ve reviewed all of the threads here on absorption and float voltages, being above 3.4V to balance, etc.
There is lots of excellent advice on this site.

Observation
When I was in closed loop, if I pushed the voltage too high, the BMS would signal an Overvoltage Alarm to the Cerbo, which was really annoying.
Especially since none of the cell voltages were overloaded (watching BMS_Tools to verify). Others have discussed this at length.

Question
Looking at BMS_Tools, I don’t see any overvoltage alarms, but I do see “Float Stoped” is set.
Yes, it is presumably a misspelling. I think the Cerbo interprets any bits set in that register as Overvoltage,

Can anyone tell me what “Float Stoped” means, and what triggers it?
It appears the BMS is disabling charging, which is making it really difficult to balance one low cell.
Thanks

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Background
I’ve decided to go back to open loop control on my 3 EG4-LL v1 devices, after 6 months of doing it closed loop with a Victron Cerbo GX via CAN.
The closed loop control worked reasonably well, but now my batteries are out of balance, and I have too many unanswered questions about the BMS.

Properly configured, they should not go out of balanced. Are you 1000% certain that they were balanced at installation? New batteries being balanced is the exception, not the rule. Most are imbalanced as-received as they typically spend 30-90 days between final assembly/charging and delivery to the customer - not counting any delays in installation.

Observation
When I was in closed loop, if I pushed the voltage too high,

How were you regulating this DVCC control voltage?

the BMS would signal an Overvoltage Alarm to the Cerbo, which was really annoying.
Especially since none of the cell voltages were overloaded (watching BMS_Tools to verify). Others have discussed this at length.

This suggests strongly they were imbalanced. What was the corresponding CCL value when this occurred?

Question
Looking at BMS_Tools, I don’t see any overvoltage alarms, but I do see “Float Stoped” is set.
Yes, it is presumably a misspelling. I think the Cerbo interprets any bits set in that register as Overvoltage,

Can anyone tell me what “Float Stoped” means, and what triggers it?
It appears the BMS is disabling charging, which is making it really difficult to balance one low cell.
Thanks

Float stopped is likely the 0A CCL (charge current limit), i.e., don't send any current to the battery.

 

[ricardocello]

Properly configured, they should not go out of balanced. Are you 1000% certain that they were balanced at installation? New batteries being balanced is the exception, not the rule. Most are imbalanced as-received as they typically spend 30-90 days between final assembly/charging and delivery to the customer - not counting any delays in installation.

Well, I thought so at the time, because I looked at BMS_tools output for each of the three modules when I first got them, and I remember the cell voltage differences being less than 40 mV at 3.5V per cell (56V).

I wish I had taken screen shots a year ago. I’ve already cleared the logs. But I was a lot less knowledgable then.

How were you regulating this DVCC control voltage?

Yes, DVCC control voltage setting was very convenient.

This suggests strongly they were imbalanced. What was the corresponding CCL value when this occurred?

Only one cell is really low on one module, the others are fairly well balanced at 55V, maybe that‘s too low to know.

I probably need to hold everything at 56V for a while and reassess how bad it really is.
Or maybe creep up the voltage a little at a time so the modules don’t block charging.

Float stopped is likely the 0A CCL (charge current limit), i.e., don't send any current to the battery.

So because I have three modules, the CCL dropped form 150A to 100A to 0A, I assume because each module punts at different voltage levels.

What do you think about skipping the Quattro chargers for now and just hold the Chargeverter at 56.0 V overnight?

Thanks for responding!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Well, I thought so at the time, because I looked at BMS_tools output for each of the three modules when I first got them, and I remember the cell voltage differences being less than 40 mV at 3.5V per cell (56V).

I wish I had taken screen shots a year ago. I’ve already cleared the logs. But I was a lot less knowledgable then.

I would call that balanced too.

Yes, DVCC control voltage setting was very convenient.

Truly!

The current control option is pretty awesome too. I've been working with a user with Trophy batteries that use the same Pylontech based protocol. It seems to me that the BMS doesn't consistently balance unless it's charging OR a cell is triggering charge protection.

I used it to limit charging to 2A, so it spends a couple hours above 3.45V with a measured current going in.

Only one cell is really low on one module, the others are fairly well balanced at 55V, maybe that‘s too low to know.

I probably need to hold everything at 56V for a while and reassess how bad it really is.
Or maybe creep up the voltage a little at a time so the modules don’t block charging.

My anecdotal evidence based on remote observation and periodic min/max voltage logging is that balancing occurs primarily when charging or in protection mode. Holding at an elevated voltage where one would expect balancing to occur wasn't particularly effective on the Trophy batteries.

Discharging to 95% and then 2A charging back to 3.45V/cell seemed to yield the best results.

So because I have three modules, the CCL dropped form 150A to 100A to 0A, I assume because each module punts at different voltage levels.

Those are triggered by the master BMS and are almost certainly based on individual cell voltage. I've watched the Trophy's do the same.

What do you think about skipping the Quattro chargers for now and just hold the Chargeverter at 56.0 V overnight?

Certainly worth trying.

 

[ricardocello]

The current control option is pretty awesome too. I've been working with a user with Trophy batteries that use the same Pylontech based protocol. It seems to me that the BMS doesn't consistently balance unless it's charging OR a cell is triggering charge protection.

I think so too.

I used it to limit charging to 2A, so it spends a couple hours above 3.45V with a measured current going in.

That‘s a great idea. I’ve just left mine at 90A, for balancing it makes more sense to slow it up.

Discharging to 95% and then 2A charging back to 3.45V/cell seemed to yield the best results.

I’ll try that next, thanks.

 

[NewGuyNoob]

I think so too.


That‘s a great idea. I’ve just left mine at 90A, for balancing it makes more sense to slow it up.


I’ll try that next, thanks.

Did you update to the latest firmware for that battery, is it the V1 [discontinued] or the V2? If V1, I have the same batteries, a firmware was released some time ago, I updated as I use them in a Schneider system. I keep my modules balanced by keeping float enabled, but changing voltage about about 90mins of absorption.

 

[ricardocello]

Did you update to the latest firmware for that battery, is it the V1 [discontinued] or the V2? If V1, I have the same batteries, a firmware was released some time ago, I updated as I use them in a Schneider system. I keep my modules balanced by keeping float enabled, but changing voltage about about 90mins of absorption.

I’ve got the v1 discontinued batteries.
I did the firmware update when they added Victron support, made my own cable, and successfully set it up.
Around the time when the youtube videos came out.

I haven’t heard if there has been another update.
I’ve had some success with the advice from @sunshine_eggo getting the one bad cell back in range.

 

[SniperX]

Did you update to the latest firmware for that battery, is it the V1 [discontinued] or the V2? If V1, I have the same batteries, a firmware was released some time ago, I updated as I use them in a Schneider system. I keep my modules balanced by keeping float enabled, but changing voltage about about 90mins of absorption.

Mind if I join the party a little late and ask a question based on your set-up? I am desperately trying to update my EG4 ll V1 batteries with the Schneider updates. I cannot access the menu where it says to hold the button down for 5 seconds to enter the protocol menu and select Schneider. Did you do that with your V1's? Were you able to hold it down and get that menu with the update? @NewGuyNoob

 

[ricardocello]

@SniperX try this thread:
Post in thread 'Anybody had trouble uploading new EG4 LL V1 firmware?'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/a...ding-new-eg4-ll-v1-firmware.52088/post-737508

Also, I don’t remember the holding down the button and menu as being part of the v1 firmware, I think that’s for v2.
But my memory could be wrong,

 

[EG4_Eric]

Mind if I join the party a little late and ask a question based on your set-up? I am desperately trying to update my EG4 ll V1 batteries with the Schneider updates. I cannot access the menu where it says to hold the button down for 5 seconds to enter the protocol menu and select Schneider. Did you do that with your V1's? Were you able to hold it down and get that menu with the update? @NewGuyNoob

The LL V1 batteries do not have a protocol menu, however, you can find the protocol and firmware update in the link provided below:

EG4®-LL | 24V 200AH Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery [Legacy Product]

Introducing the EG4 LL 24V 200AH Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery: durable, efficient, with 5.12kWh capacity and selectable closed-loop inverter communications.

eg4electronics.com

The link will bring you to the 24v version of the LL V1 but you can find the 48v firmware in this file. Also, I have included the update guide and cable requirements in this post.

 

[ricardocello]

You know, EG4 has somewhat neglected us EG4-LL v1 owners.
They don't have files to download on their web page.
They don't really acknowledge the product existed in any way.
Some videos show them putting EG4-LL S, EG4-LL v2, v1, and maybe even LifePower in a rack together.

I would work with Signature Solar and EG4_Jarrett and EG4_Jared directly, see if they have anyone who still knows the product.

And @EG4_Eric comes to the rescue as I entered the post!
Thank you!

 

[SniperX]

@SniperX try this thread:
Post in thread 'Anybody had trouble uploading new EG4 LL V1 firmware?'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/a...ding-new-eg4-ll-v1-firmware.52088/post-737508

Also, I don’t remember the holding down the button and menu as being part of the v1 firmware, I think that’s for v2.
But my memory could be wrong,

Thanks. I have no issue updating the batteries, it is the directions for a menu on the actual battery that I can't seem to access. After reading that post, no one else mentions that step. I am going to hook the insight home to the batteries and see if I can get it to recognize my BMS which so far, it has not been able to even with an update. This thread was very helpful.

 

[SniperX]

You know, EG4 has really neglected us EG4-LL v1 owners.

They don't have files to download on their web page.
They don't really acknowledge the product existed in any way.
Some videos show them putting EG4-LL S, EG4-LL v2, v1, and maybe even LifePower in a rack together.

I would work with Signature Solar and EG4_Jarrett and EG4_Jared directly, see if they have anyone who still knows the product.

I have been working with Markus and Jarrett and they have been most helpful. The issue is the protocol associated with the file they send (pdf on how to do it) does NOT match what I am seeing, but if there is no actual way to access that protocol menu from the display screen on the actual battery, then, I can try to move through this without doing that. The batteries have updated successfully, I just could not access that "hold the button in for 5 seconds and you will enter a protocol setting menu". Going to just set my dip switches to the correct settings and then connect the insight home and see what comes of it.

 

[ricardocello]

The issue is the protocol associated with the file they send (pdf on how to do it)

See if the instructions @EG4_Eric provided above is better. I scanned it, don't see any mention of the menu.

 

[SniperX]

The LL V1 batteries do not have a protocol menu, however, you can find the protocol and firmware update in the link provided below:

EG4®-LL | 24V 200AH Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery [Legacy Product]

Introducing the EG4 LL 24V 200AH Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery: durable, efficient, with 5.12kWh capacity and selectable closed-loop inverter communications.

eg4electronics.com

The link will bring you to the 24v version of the LL V1 but you can find the 48v firmware in this file. Also, I have included the update guide and cable requirements in this post.

View attachment 216634

I have that. Well, Jarrett sent me the 48V one. The issue is I am not seeing this (see 1st photo) These are photos I took from the process (after the first photo) I guess what I need to know is if I am not seeing exactly what you have written in the instructions, but it does say it updated, should I just go ahead and see what is going on in the Insight Home? I cannot access the protocol menu from the display on the battery... The version that I updated is R04 and others were saying R03 worked...maybe this is the issue.

 

[SniperX]

See if the instructions @EG4_Eric provided above is better. I scanned it, don't see any mention of the menu.

Maybe the instructions are when you access the file from the 24V version because I am following it and I don't see this menu but I was able to access the Schneider hex file anyway. Need to hook up and check it out.

 

[ricardocello]

@Mr-Sandman @JFKS

 

[SniperX]

I have that. Well, Jarrett sent me the 48V one. The issue is I am not seeing this (see 1st photo) These are photos I took from the process (after the first photo) I guess what I need to know is if I am not seeing exactly what you have written in the instructions, but it does say it updated, should I just go ahead and see what is going on in the Insight Home? I cannot access the protocol menu from the display on the battery... The version that I updated is R04 and others were saying R03 worked...maybe this is the issue.

and here are the rest of the photos I couldn't load with the first set

 

[ricardocello]

Thanks for posting all of those, I'm sure they will help other EG4-LL v1 customers in the future.
Hopefully the Schneider people who also own EG4-LL v1s will chime in.

 

[ricardocello]

For future readers, Signature Solar posted this multipack firmware in January 2024
for EG4-LL v1, v2, and LL-S when mixing module types.

Need help adding EG4-LL-S with EG4-LL v1

I sent a request to SS about 10 days ago with no response ( and spent hours on hold) and I have reading several articles but do not have a clear understanding of how to add 2 EG4-LL-S batteries to my existing EG4-LL V1 batteries. I have seen feedback to a) sever pin 6 if using LP4, does this...

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