Prices dropping, will this continue?

[AntronX]

Winston's are LiFeYPO4 (LYP), yttrium doped, so they can be charged in colder temps than regular LFP

Pretty good chance it does nothing but allow Winston's manufacturer to get around patent restriction.

 

[740GLE]

v3 should get much cheaper as mb30 comes into full availability.

Until those first batch of MB30 show people need to wait for MB30 V3 for it to be worth while

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Yeah, I see your point. But why did you pay 2x for your batteries? Thats my point. Do you expect the Winston's to last twice as long as Eve cells.
That seems very unlikely.

Honestly? I was tired of reading stories about people ordering “grade A” cells from vendors and many of them getting trash sent to them. With Winston I was dealing with a Winston employee not some third tier middleman who might be selling me rejects, might be selling me pull offs from a Chinese short bus.
I tried contacting both of the “Amy’s” and both flaked out when i questioned them on two things… provenance of the cells, and protection for the terminals while shipping. This was right after the new terminals with two holes came out and several people recieved cells with bent terminals. I don’t know about you, but when I am playing with something that costs that much, and is that prone to self destructing for any of a dozen reasons, I don’t want a product to arrive with bent terminals and have the vendor tell me to straighten them out on my own… those things go into the cell itself and after charging me 135/ cell + shipping to Japan (this was over a year ago) and all the hoops that entails I refuse to accept that as an answer. And then both ghosted me and refused to reply back on forum or Ali Baba sound like a proven reliable place to spend 6k USD at?

In the end I ordered from Winston and at the time I ordered the price with shipping quote was roughly 12k compared to what the “Amy’s” were charging (6K ish)

With that I refer you to the thread entitled shipping porn that I posted… that level of packing alone costs quiet a bit of extra money over a cardboard box.

Mind you cells were different models, prices were for the same 800 ah from Winston vs 608 ah from with of the Amie’s (400x2 vs 304 x 2). So did i really pay 2x?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Pretty good chance it does nothing but allow Winston's manufacturer to get around patent restriction.

That might very well be true, I don’t think though so. Too many lawsuits pending if that were true, I would think.

Personally I don’t worry as my cells are heated, now if heater dies and cells get cold at least their is chance they won’t die

 

[AntronX]

That might very well be true, I don’t think though so

This guy claims he spoke to professor Jeff Dahn (one of world's top Li-ion battery experts) and he agreed that Yittrium claim in unproven. (start at 4m31s mark)

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

This guy claims he spoke to professor Jeff Dahn (one of world's top Li-ion battery experts) and he agreed that Yittrium claim in unproved. (start at 4m31s mark)

Yeah I watched this when it was first posted, matter of fact I visited his website probably about 5 or 6 years ago and that’s what kinda pushed me I to Lithium when my AGM’s went downhill . Back when I visited his sight before it was much more business oriented but still had a lot of data points. This clip is new of course. But just like Covid, if you do not have repeatable proof it’s all hearsay so Winston does not want to share whitepapers? Yet sinopoly/CALB did not pursue…. You do not think they would not have tested some of his cells to try and prove him wrong in an effort to topple him? Everybody seems to think that life goes in in a vacuum it doesn’t . Regardless my cells have heaters and as I stated in another post my desire was to get actual factory cells not from a middleman

 

[Zwy]

This guy claims he spoke to professor Jeff Dahn (one of world's top Li-ion battery experts) and he agreed that Yittrium claim in unproved. (start at 4m31s mark)

I was going to link it myself. Thanks for putting it up, I won't have to search for it.

Marketing, patents and other things can make for some dubious claims.

 

[Dave911]

Honestly? I was tired of reading stories about people ordering “grade A” cells from vendors and many of them getting trash sent to them. With Winston I was dealing with a Winston employee not some third tier middleman who might be selling me rejects, might be selling me pull offs from a Chinese short bus.
I tried contacting both of the “Amy’s” and both flaked out when i questioned them on two things… provenance of the cells, and protection for the terminals while shipping. This was right after the new terminals with two holes came out and several people recieved cells with bent terminals. I don’t know about you, but when I am playing with something that costs that much, and is that prone to self destructing for any of a dozen reasons, I don’t want a product to arrive with bent terminals and have the vendor tell me to straighten them out on my own… those things go into the cell itself and after charging me 135/ cell + shipping to Japan (this was over a year ago) and all the hoops that entails I refuse to accept that as an answer. And then both ghosted me and refused to reply back on forum or Ali Baba sound like a proven reliable place to spend 6k USD at?

In the end I ordered from Winston and at the time I ordered the price with shipping quote was roughly 12k compared to what the “Amy’s” were charging (6K ish)

With that I refer you to the thread entitled shipping porn that I posted… that level of packing alone costs quiet a bit of extra money over a cardboard box.

Mind you cells were different models, prices were for the same 800 ah from Winston vs 608 ah from with of the Amie’s (400x2 vs 304 x 2). So did i really pay 2x?

Thanks for the long explanation. Context is everything. I was't aware of a bent terminal issue. Sounds like things were quite different when you bought your cells. How long have you had the Winstons? Im skeptical of buying cells directly from China as well. There are some suppliers in the US and I have a large van and trailer. So I can drive and pickup many things in person. So your in Japan. Do you have grid access or are you entirely off the grid? That would make a big difference in my decision making regarding components.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Thanks for the long explanation. Context is everything. I was't aware of a bent terminal issue. Sounds like things were quite different when you bought your cells. How long have you had the Winstons? Im skeptical of buying cells directly from China as well. There are some suppliers in the US and I have a large van and trailer. So I can drive and pickup many things in person. So your in Japan. Do you have grid access or are you entirely off the grid? That would make a big difference in my decision making regarding components.

I just recieved mine last fall prior to that I was running a 500 ah call bank. It took me two years to research and pull trigger, cabin is totally offgrid

 

[ArthurEld]

Honestly? I was tired of reading stories about people ordering “grade A” cells from vendors and many of them getting trash sent to them. With Winston I was dealing with a Winston employee not some third tier middleman who might be selling me rejects, might be selling me pull offs from a Chinese short bus.
I tried contacting both of the “Amy’s” and both flaked out when i questioned them on two things… provenance of the cells, and protection for the terminals while shipping. This was right after the new terminals with two holes came out and several people recieved cells with bent terminals. I don’t know about you, but when I am playing with something that costs that much, and is that prone to self destructing for any of a dozen reasons, I don’t want a product to arrive with bent terminals and have the vendor tell me to straighten them out on my own… those things go into the cell itself and after charging me 135/ cell + shipping to Japan (this was over a year ago) and all the hoops that entails I refuse to accept that as an answer. And then both ghosted me and refused to reply back on forum or Ali Baba sound like a proven reliable place to spend 6k USD at?

It does take some effort to get used to Alibaba and China but I assure you that Amy from Luyuan is grade A compared to others I have dealt with.
And she offers a lot more than a battery manufacturer. I'm sure you are happy with what you got from Winston but there really are grade A dealers out there and they offer valuable service.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

It does take some effort to get used to Alibaba and China but I assure you that Amy from Luyuan is grade A compared to others I have dealt with.
And she offers a lot more than a battery manufacturer. I'm sure you are happy with what you got from Winston but there really are grade A dealers out there and they offer valuable service.

my personal opinion is the opposite of yours, she did not answer questions and then blew off a prospective customer. It is her right after all, but its very telling to me. Its my opinion that she is looking for customers that are on the various forums that have heard others say she is "a safe bet" and ignoring/running from all others.

Am I happy with the winstons? only time will tell.... they have the capacity I need, now its all a long term waiting game to see how they hold up. I do know that i feel better, while that is subjective it matters as well.

I deal with vendors on ali babba quite frequently and not for solar per se. I am currently dealing with a vendor for an order of stainless steel piping. not something you would see much on a solar forum. what I got was a very professional reply with solid reasonable questions inquiring into proposed use. They then took this info and used it to offer different tubing that would work better for me, even though they make less money per linear meter on it. so its all about research as far as I am concerned and then selecting the right vendor for you.

 

[Stircrazy]

With that I refer you to the thread entitled shipping porn that I posted… that level of packing alone costs quiet a bit of extra money over a cardboard box.

I got my cells from a US supplier for 5 bucks more a cell than the amy's were selling for, they weren't in a wooden crate but they were in thick heavy cardboard with about 4 times the thickness of foam and the dual screw terminals were protected with custom cutouts in the top foam I think that at that level of protection a wooden crate would have been a waist of time. and absolutely not worth twice the price, a wooden crate would add about 20 bucks US to the packaging costs overseas.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I got my cells from a US supplier for 5 bucks more a cell than the amy's were selling for, they weren't in a wooden crate but they were in thick heavy cardboard with about 4 times the thickness of foam and the dual screw terminals were protected with custom cutouts in the top foam I think that at that level of protection a wooden crate would have been a waist of time. and absolutely not worth twice the price, a wooden crate would add about 20 bucks US to the packaging costs overseas.

how many cells were you buying?

That really makes a difference as the more you buy and sink into a project the more you do not want to take chances on something as simple as a bent terminal. like I said above the terminal goes into the cell, any tweaking of that terminal runs the risk of all kinds of issues. Something I am more than willing to spend a few extra bucks on to prevent.

Especially since shipping them back for warranty is pretty much out of the question (for me) remember I live in japan, not the US there are no trusted vendors of chinese batteries here. the one or two times I have seen prismatic cells available on mecary or Yahoo auctions have always been sketchy sellers in my opinion.

 

[Hedges]

I was more interested in LiFePO4 modules with welded busbars, the way G*d (I mean engineers) intended.
The various bolted connections were all aftermarket modifications for DIY use. Bolting to bare aluminum, no tin plate, for 200A?
Then we saw several generations with various stripped thread and broken weld issues.

Of course most were not in 48V packs. One batch of true EV grade were 60V, not convenient and requiring hacking.
Of course, they were packaged very securely in metal enclosures.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I was more interested in LiFePO4 modules with welded busbars, the way G*d (I mean engineers) intended.
The various bolted connections were all aftermarket modifications for DIY use. Bolting to bare aluminum, no tin plate, for 200A?
Then we saw several generations with various stripped thread and broken weld issues.

Of course most were not in 48V packs. One batch of true EV grade were 60V, not convenient and requiring hacking.
Of course, they were packaged very securely in metal enclosures.

what EV packs are 60 volts? (just morbid curiosity).

 

[Hedges]

Don't know what vehicle.

One of the battery resellers had a quantity of 280 Ah 60V (? well, actually 20s) packs brand new. I would guess those got interconnected in series. A few people here got them, e.g. 4 units, cut and splice to make 5, 48V strings.

 

[ArthurEld]

my personal opinion is the opposite of yours, she did not answer questions and then blew off a prospective customer. It is her right after all, but its very telling to me. Its my opinion that she is looking for customers that are on the various forums that have heard others say she is "a safe bet" and ignoring/running from all others.

Am I happy with the winstons? only time will tell.... they have the capacity I need, now its all a long term waiting game to see how they hold up. I do know that i feel better, while that is subjective it matters as well.

I deal with vendors on ali babba quite frequently and not for solar per se. I am currently dealing with a vendor for an order of stainless steel piping. not something you would see much on a solar forum. what I got was a very professional reply with solid reasonable questions inquiring into proposed use. They then took this info and used it to offer different tubing that would work better for me, even though they make less money per linear meter on it. so its all about research as far as I am concerned and then selecting the right vendor for you.

I think Amy might be guilty of starting a website then not answering email from the website. That's not very professional but is fairly common.
I had trouble communicating with Amy the first time I ordered cells. I ended up ordering from someone else because of it. It took me another couple years to get around to ordering from Luyuan. I am very happy with them.

 

[Stircrazy]

how many cells were you buying?

That really makes a difference as the more you buy and sink into a project the more you do not want to take chances on something as simple as a bent terminal. like I said above the terminal goes into the cell, any tweaking of that terminal runs the risk of all kinds of issues. Something I am more than willing to spend a few extra bucks on to prevent.

Especially since shipping them back for warranty is pretty much out of the question (for me) remember I live in japan, not the US there are no trusted vendors of chinese batteries here. the one or two times I have seen prismatic cells available on mecary or Yahoo auctions have always been sketchy sellers in my opinion.

Japan, that's awesome, I love it there. ya I guess that puts a different spin on things, I am in Canada and I know of no good venders in Canada at all so we have to order from the US then take a huge hit on shipping and the exchange rate if we want them quickly. I only ordered 4 cells from this place (building a battery for my Camper) but they come in a box of 4 and I couldn't believe how snugly they fit in the foam, it would have taken a bomb to hurt them