Sol-Ark SA-12K Hybrid - Is it worth the cost for EMP Hardening?

[Farmer]

The Alt E Store wants $1645.00 more for the EMP hardened model, is it worth it?
I would like to use lithium batteries, would I need to put them in a faraday cage?

Thanks

 

[gnubie]

Is it worth it? I guess that comes down to how many nuclear attacks or Carrington events you plan on withstanding.

Put your money into lightning protection, IMO.

 

[Hedges]

A Faraday cage, with wires feeding through to your batteries, isn't a Faraday Cage.

I went to a local FCC certified EMI lab for testing. Saw peaks from radio/TV while inside the shield room.
There was a 4" steel pipe penetration which they fed cables through for equipment.
When I pointed that out, he clamped cable jackets to the pipe so at least they didn't for an antenna outside, feed-through, antenna inside.
I don't think he stuffed the hole with metal wool, but I've seen that done before.

Those were coaxial cables to instruments. For individual cables you would need filtered electrical feed-throughs. Those are available for AC power and various datacomm. You need 500A DC, so that size filer for AC would do.

Lithium - aren't you concerned with what happens when that is struck by neutrons?

I suggest collecting lead-acid car batteries. Lots of them. Use as bricks to build your bunker. The lead is a good shield for gamma. Double-layer staggered, to cover where plastic case would allow shine through. The polyethylene and electrolyte should help with neutrons. The large total Wh capacity should last until sun comes out again.

 

[robby]

Is it worth it? I guess that comes down to how many nuclear attacks or Carrington events you plan on withstanding.

Put your money into lightning protection, IMO.

I think Sol-Ark is the only one offering a full EMP system that has been tested.
The prepper guys love this stuff, but personally if the SHTF in an EOD manner I have no desire to live in a Mad Max type world.

 

[Danke]

Just put spare solar equipment in a grounded Metal shipping container.

 

[mvonw]

I really think this is the ultimate (and I mean ultimate) Will Prowse test video.

 

[robby]

Just put spare solar equipment in a grounded Metal shipping container.

It is not as simple as that.
The PV wiring is going to be a major energy absorber of an EMP.
That is why Sol-Ark has special MPPT's on the EMP version and also a Box full of Chokes for every part of the wiring.

 

[Hedges]

Chokes block common mode but not differential mode. They attenuate modest power; do they have any effect at the power level of EMP, CME, nearby lighting?

Perhaps MOV etc. absorb far more than ferrites can block.

Of course, SolArk has some test results. Radiated immunity I think they had done by a lab, and conducted as in from PV array they did in house.

Could be big iron chokes would block more. Power transformers work with 240V 1A 60 Hz idle current. Two primary windings as common-mode choke might hold off quite a bit. Hmm, I should consider that for my new system which will be fed by overhead power lines.

My testing has shown certain chokes do better for some low-level coupling than power transformers (used as chokes.) But I haven't tested high power levels and higher frequency transients.

 

[Danke]

It is not as simple as that.
The PV wiring is going to be a major energy absorber of an EMP.
That is why Sol-Ark has special MPPT's on the EMP version and also a Box full of Chokes for every part of the wiring.

I said spare. That would be replacement equipment if the other equipment failed from EMP, etc.

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

Is it worth it? I guess that comes down to how many nuclear attacks or Carrington events you plan on withstanding.

Put your money into lightning protection, IMO.

I agree here..lightning itself is a form of emp discharge of you can withstand 300 miillion volts and as much as 30 thousand amps then your good. Yeah its totally worth it in my opinion but that's a direct hit. I once had a tree outside my house get hit the bolt jumped from the tree into my heat pump knocked a lighted antique crystal budweiser clock off the wall damaging the lighting circuit destroyed several vcr units and burned up the motor in a 20 foot fiberglass satellite dish. Several years later the tree grew back and was struck again but it being much smaller dissipated to the ground around it thank the heavens above, but the transients still burned up the replacement motor in the satellite dish..by that time we had bought a hand crank apparatus to be able to reposition the dish..big hassle expensive homeowners insurance claim not that we had to pay for any of it accept for time and white knuckles hair pulling on the phone with the adjuster...yeah emp hardening is worth it. But it doesn't have to be a big Faraday cage nessecarily. Although that will improve your chances of survival much much better. Look intol arge metal Oxide varistors and and transient voltage suppression diodes and build one yourself although it's not just as simple as these two pieces but this is at least a start...good luck and stay safe...

 

[robbob2112]

Newbie question here is there nothing to use as lightning arresters or a TVVS type protection for the lines from the roof? Something like a wire through a glass tube and neon or argon in it. A strip of wire along the inside of the glass that is grounded.. is lightning hits is arcs through the gas and grounds. L-com.com has a bunch of stuff like that for antenna and cables of all sorts. But I haven't seen any conversations about it here.

 

[Hedges]

In my field we have little GDT used in vacuum equipment subject to arcs.
Certainly you could select appropriate ones for the application. (voltage and current, the 50V or so I used wouldn't cut it.)

I've also heard it is good to make a hairpin turn, the lightning has difficulty negotiating it and runs off the road.


I think conducted lightning is more an issue for overhead power lines. Or antennas standing proud during a storm. Panels aren't as exposed. An actual strike to your panels would likely blow a hole in them. But there is induced current.

 

[mlg779]

I have a EMP hardened Solark. From what I have seen the hardening is circular magnets around Wires inside. 2 magnets around the Battery cables and magnets around each solar panel.

 

[robbob2112]

There has to be more than that, running the wires through the magnets like you describe would limit the changes in current flow but small magnets means small limit. I would think gas discharge tubes on the main board, faraday cage like stuff in the case and everything copper or steel instead of plastic.

 

[robby]

I have a EMP hardened Solark. From what I have seen the hardening is circular magnets around Wires inside. 2 magnets around the Battery cables and magnets around each solar panel.

I was told the MPPTs are different. I think some of the other boards are also different.

 

[robby]

I have had a few lightning strikes over the decades. A direct hit is pretty much going to wreck your day unless you have a professionally installed protection system. Those can cost $50k and up.

 

[Warpspeed]

Its like asking "how can I bomb proof my home".

Its an open ended question with no real definite answer being possible.
What kind of bomb ?
What field strength of EMP ?

What kind of bullet proof vest should I buy ?
Will it protect me from being struck by a 30mm armor piercing round ?

Plenty of people around eager to sell you stuff that is nowhere near good enough to do what is claimed.

 

[robby]

That’s not really an accurate comparison.
There are thousands of Ham Radio operators across the globe with 100+Ft towers. Many of these towers are taking multiple lightning strikes annually. The systems are also designed to withstand an EMP.
Commercial Radio stations with 1000ft towers get hit even more often while broadcasting and it does nothing.
There are well known techniques to stopping lightning and EMPs but like solar itself you either spend big money and get a pro do it or you read up and learn the way to do it and save the Money using a lot of your time and labor.

 

[Warpspeed]

Lightning protection and EMP protection are entirely different things.
I am one of those Ham Radio guys (VK3ALY).
I have also professionally been involved with designing lightning protection for multi million dollar projects.

 

[G00SE]

Lightning protection and EMP protection are entirely different things.
I am one of those Ham Radio guys (VK3ALY).
I have also professionally been involved with designing lightning protection for multi million dollar projects.

Do you utilize any surge or lightning or emp protection on either your solar or HAM system? If so, what products have you found worthwhile when considering cost, magnitude of potential damage, scale of potential outage or attack