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Does anyone know if the US has plans to do similar balcony power plants like Europe does very successful?

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Darkwing

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Dec 4, 2023
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New Jersey
Good morning.
I am from Germany and now life here in the US now but still watch the renewable development here and over there.
And since they have these plug into regular outlet 600w inverter/pv bundles that u can buy and operate at home, i was wondering if anyone over here has heard anything about the US catching up to that wonderful tool.
Doing it the guerilla way for years here now but would love to have that legal without having to ask the poco.
Maybe there are already petitions ongoing or even code changes but i havent found anything

de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog

Balkonkraftwerk – Wikipedia

de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog
 
Darkwing said:
Good morning.
I am from Germany and now life here in the US now but still watch the renewable development here and over there.
And since they have these plug into regular outlet 600w inverter/pv bundles that u can buy and operate at home, i was wondering if anyone over here has heard anything about the US catching up to that wonderful tool.
Doing it the guerilla way for years here now but would love to have that legal without having to ask the poco.
Maybe there are already petitions ongoing or even code changes but i havent found anything

de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog

Balkonkraftwerk – Wikipedia

de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog
Click to expand...
it's unlikely, majority of US utilities are extremely profit focused and anything like this will be fought by their industry lobbyists.
 
It required passage of some laws In Germany I think to allow for those balcony type systems.
 
How often do you see these in Germany?

This would feed power into lines in case of power outages, that makes it difficult. There’s so much that could go wrong with these.
 
There are also some technical challenges to implementing in the US -
Most plugs in EU have a switch next to them so they can be off when plugging/unplugging - less danger of touching the live metal.
They work either by using a cord attached directly or by having a plug that you pass through at the other end so that appliance uses the power - and it uses your internal wiring to do it. The solar is only tapped for exactly as much power as needed by its remote plug, no grid export.

They only turn on when everything is connected and voltage is sensed on the plug.
It only feeds power to the plugged in appliances it can sense.
If there is a power outage it shuts off until power is returned, but you can run an extension cord from say a fridge and you can plug that in directly. But the remote power is not used in an outage so it doesn't backfeed the grid.
 
chrisski said:
How often do you see these in Germany?

This would feed power into lines in case of power outages, that makes it difficult. There’s so much that could go wrong with these.
Click to expand...


Its use in the Netherlands .
But i do see a lot of people resell it on marketplace.
Really its not that great to use what i know about it.
Its really a solution for people who are living on apartment building.

You can make a own connection direct to your distribution box.

Its really the same like a normal solar kit for on a roof.
But only with a plug on it.
Systeem shutdown by 253volt if the main grid is that high .
For the rest well in the eu if the grid go down the solar panel will shutdown automatic .
So that thare is no power go back to the grid.
This systeem will have the same systeem or it can not sell in the EU.
 
Not even in consideration here in the US. Your guerilla unit has escaped attention likely because you either always have sufficient house loading to counteract the injected PV wattage or your POCO's meter is unable to detect small amount of export.

Many years ago I experimented with a similar micro grid tie setup. It was a 600w 120vAC plug in that cost me ~$75. Since I knew that export was forbidden without approval I attempted to only use it during periods when house loading would mask it being used. Pain the butt especially since I was/am a conservative electric user. Many periods throughout the day I have no load at all. At any rate it stopped working after a few months for reasons not readily apparent so I tossed it away. Chalked it up to a unworkable setup for long term PV utilization.
 
IMHO it is a very bad idea. It is all too easy to overload internal wiring by connecting a micro-generation supply to the consumer side of the circuit breakers and, for that reason, it is not permitted in the UK.

In the UK we have wiring regulation BS7671 712.411.3.2.1.1 (yes, really!!)... where it states "The PV Supply cable (on the AC side) shall be connected to the supply side of the protective device for automatic disconnection of circuits supplying current-using equipment."

See my posting here about it from a while ago..
diysolarforum.com

UK Off-grid DNO advice

He does not need to inform with an off-grid with grid backup. Grid backup essentially takes power from the grid on AC-IN but does not connect to feed back to the grid providing he has not connected the AC-OUT to a panel that is connected directly to the grid. If he has connected is distribution...
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com
 
chrisski said:
How often do you see these in Germany?

This would feed power into lines in case of power outages, that makes it difficult. There’s so much that could go wrong with these.
Click to expand...
They are not feeding when grod os off. Germans are way more anal when it comes to safety than the us. They need to power down in less then 10ns and have to be disconnected via relay on top. No chance to unplug and zapp yourself, no matter how fast you try.
How often u see those? Well you can litterally buy tham at the grocery store or gas station, so right now there are about 450000 of them out there.
 
robbob2112 said:
There are also some technical challenges to implementing in the US -
Most plugs in EU have a switch next to them so they can be off when plugging/unplugging - less danger of touching the live metal.
They work either by using a cord attached directly or by having a plug that you pass through at the other end so that appliance uses the power - and it uses your internal wiring to do it. The solar is only tapped for exactly as much power as needed by its remote plug, no grid export.

They only turn on when everything is connected and voltage is sensed on the plug.
It only feeds power to the plugged in appliances it can sense.
If there is a power outage it shuts off until power is returned, but you can run an extension cord from say a fridge and you can plug that in directly. But the remote power is not used in an outage so it doesn't backfeed the grid.
Click to expand...
They definitely backfeed the grid if you have to little usage in your household over the day, but u dont get any money for the access, thats why people start getting batteries for them as well. And i have never seen a switch next to an outlet in my 35 years in germany. Saw such switch/outlet combo first time in the us
 
chrisski said:
This would feed power into lines in case of power outages, that makes it difficult. There’s so much that could go wrong with these.
Click to expand...
That's not an issue. Anti-islanding systems work quite well. There are other issues, like the chances of overloading the wiring if someone does something "clever."
 
Ok, i think what i get from this is, that it will not come to the US. Bummer.
Luckily my system is automated to start loads when excess would be exported to grid.
But was nice to read about opinions here.
Hope i did not cause to much disturbance here.
It is just a great way to get the normal person access to pv in apartments and small budgets.
No accidents yet and totally solidified in german law and codes
 
Darkwing said:
Ok, i think what i get from this is, that it will not come to the US. Bummer.
Luckily my system is automated to start loads when excess would be exported to grid.
But was nice to read about opinions here.
Hope i did not cause to much disturbance here.
It is just a great way to get the normal person access to pv in apartments and small budgets.
No accidents yet and totally solidified in german law and codes
Click to expand...
It probably helped that the government was trying to wean the country off cheap Russian natural gas, every little bit of self production counts.
 
Darkwing said:
They definitely backfeed the grid if you have to little usage in your household over the day, but u dont get any money for the access, thats why people start getting batteries for them as well. And i have never seen a switch next to an outlet in my 35 years in germany. Saw such switch/outlet combo first time in the us
Click to expand...

I think that are mistakes about .
Switch for the light wel next thare is a plug .
Both are in the same place but not function together like one unit.
We use those in the Netherlands in the hallway.
So we have a light switch and a power outlet for the
vacuum cleaner.
Again you do not need the switch to set power on the outlet

If people like to know see picture how its connect it
 

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Brucey said:
it's unlikely, majority of US utilities are extremely profit focused and anything like this will be fought by their industry lobbyists.
Click to expand...

This is the correct answer.

As noted in the other posts, there are technical and safety reasons, but those could be overcome.

"The Man" in his/her many forms just doesn't want us doing for ourselves. Makes us harder to control.
 
v_green57 said:
This is the correct answer.

As noted in the other posts, there are technical and safety reasons, but those could be overcome.

"The Man" in his/her many forms just doesn't want us doing for ourselves. Makes us harder to control.
Click to expand...
Thays why i was asking this...cause i dont know how people do all the solar over here dept free.
I make +90k a year and cant afford dept free solar. Those installers always just want to give you turn key systems ala 30k+ and the pocos dont want you to play with it afterwards like extend.
I really would like to see anyone paying off a 30k system when the kwh is just 13 cents.
Sorry for venting, but it seems they try to make it preventative expensive on purpose. And then thye bring up such a great devices like the 6000xp but making sure that 6000 watt aka 25 amp per phase is JUST not enough to life with one unit. They could have made it 8000w or 35 amps each, but nope.
Either way, thx for all the opions and thoughts.
Love this community
 
Darkwing said:
Thays why i was asking this...cause i dont know how people do all the solar over here dept free.
I make +90k a year and cant afford dept free solar. Those installers always just want to give you turn key systems ala 30k+ and the pocos dont want you to play with it afterwards like extend.
I really would like to see anyone paying off a 30k system when the kwh is just 13 cents.
Sorry for venting, but it seems they try to make it preventative expensive on purpose. And then thye bring up such a great devices like the 6000xp but making sure that 6000 watt aka 25 amp per phase is JUST not enough to life with one unit. They could have made it 8000w or 35 amps each, but nope.
Either way, thx for all the opions and thoughts.
Love this community
Click to expand...
Apparently the "8000XP" is nearing release. Presumably Luxpower like the 6000XP.
 
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