diy solar

diy solar

Are there any UL 1741 approved inverters below 6kw?

John Hutch

New Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2024
Messages
16
Location
Lexington, KY
After receiving a call from my utility company about backfeeding the grid with my EG4 3kw inverter that I was running in an off grid mode, I am attempting to replace this unit in my system. I plan to try to get a level 1 connection permit from Kentucky Utilities since they tell me that this may allow me to meet their regulations for the installation. They require a UL 1741 certification on their forms, and the smallest inverter I can find that offers this is an EG4 6000 XP.
Since I sized my system only for a back up when the grid goes down, I installed 2.2kw of solar panels, 10kw of server rack batteries, and 10 awg wiring, to support the 120 volt 3k inverter. I used this setup to power a 110 volt critical loads panel and it worked quite well with the past few power outages. I also have a 3400 watt inverter generator in case of a longer power outage when solar is not adequate.
From reading the literature available online I find the following information. With the 6000 XP, which is a 240 volt system, I will have probably need to add more panels, add an additional battery to be >200 ah, rewire with a 240 volt 50amp breaker and 8 awg wiring. My generator will also not be able to run the system as it is only 120 as well. In other words I will have to rebuild the system from scratch.
Is anyone aware of any company that is building a 120 volt inverter that is about 3kw, and UL 1741 certified, for sale on the market today? I have been searching for weeks, and have not seen one that I can use as a replacement in my build.
I was not trying to sell power back to the grid, but I have even been searching for a UL 1741 grid tie string inverter that I could possibly use with my solar panels. My thought is that I could power my home panel with some solar when all was running normally. In the event of power outage I could still use the EG4 3k with the batteries to power the emergency panel as a UPS. The only problem is I have not been able to find an approved grid tie inverter in the lower wattage range as well. Has anyone found any lower wattage units that would work?
 
Before you look into the new inverter path. You can look into the double conversion with chargeverter threads (timelectric has this setup, you can ping him if you want), that will 100% prevent backfeed. The chargeverter would also allow a 120V generator to integrate with a 240V inverter, since the chargeverter charges the battery directly.

Chargeverter will be cheaper than any plan involving a 6000XP

Did you get a chance to check with EG4 or forums whether 6000XP can be configured to run in 120V mode?

With the 6000 XP, which is a 240 volt system, I will have probably need to add more panels, add an additional battery to be >200 ah
Can you share your math for this?

10kWh battery = 2 server racks which I thought could discharge at 200A * 50V = more than 6kW. And 6000XP has discharge limit you can configure.

More panels depends on the difference between the MPPT. What is your current panel specs (how is it wired, & please paste the specs of the panels).
rewire with a 240 volt 50amp breaker and 8 awg wiring
Can you share your math? I'm looking at the manual and it says 25A per leg, which works out to needing a 35A breaker (which I guess needs #8). If it can (1) be power out put limited by Power Control System settings to 24A and (2) your local code revision allows PCS to determine the breaker size, then you can get away with a 30A breaker. Also, for an off grid inverter you might not need to multiply by 125% like you do for a grid tie inverter, since it will only push as much power as your loads can pull.

It may well be easier to resize rather than research or haggle this.

I know the inverter has a 50A bypass rating but that doesn't mean you have to feed it with 50A.

SolArk 5K-1P is 1741 (actually probably 9540), 120V, and below 6kW
 
Last edited:
After receiving a call from my utility company about backfeeding the grid with my EG4 3kw inverter that I was running in an off grid mode, I am attempting to replace this unit in my system. I plan to try to get a level 1 connection permit from Kentucky Utilities since they tell me that this may allow me to meet their regulations for the installation. They require a UL 1741 certification on their forms, and the smallest inverter I can find that offers this is an EG4 6000 XP.
Since I sized my system only for a back up when the grid goes down, I installed 2.2kw of solar panels, 10kw of server rack batteries, and 10 awg wiring, to support the 120 volt 3k inverter. I used this setup to power a 110 volt critical loads panel and it worked quite well with the past few power outages. I also have a 3400 watt inverter generator in case of a longer power outage when solar is not adequate.
From reading the literature available online I find the following information. With the 6000 XP, which is a 240 volt system, I will have probably need to add more panels, add an additional battery to be >200 ah, rewire with a 240 volt 50amp breaker and 8 awg wiring. My generator will also not be able to run the system as it is only 120 as well. In other words I will have to rebuild the system from scratch.
Is anyone aware of any company that is building a 120 volt inverter that is about 3kw, and UL 1741 certified, for sale on the market today? I have been searching for weeks, and have not seen one that I can use as a replacement in my build.
I was not trying to sell power back to the grid, but I have even been searching for a UL 1741 grid tie string inverter that I could possibly use with my solar panels. My thought is that I could power my home panel with some solar when all was running normally. In the event of power outage I could still use the EG4 3k with the batteries to power the emergency panel as a UPS. The only problem is I have not been able to find an approved grid tie inverter in the lower wattage range as well. Has anyone found any lower wattage units that would work?
You weren't using it in an off grid mode.
It's not your fault, as the manual doesn't provide the correct information for SUB mode.
You should have been running in SBU mode for off grid.
 
This is probably the cheapest option for grid tie only

 
This is probably the cheapest option for grid tie only

This won't replace a EG4 3000 off grid inverter, and the HV hybrid version wouldn't work with OP's existing 48V batteries. Maybe there is a LV hybrid around that size, but I suspect a MultiPlus would have better forum support etc, and also be 120V compatible for sure
 
I have even been searching for a UL 1741 grid tie string inverter that I could possibly use with my solar panels. My thought is that I could power my home panel with some solar when all was running normally. In the event of power outage I could still use the EG4 3k with the batteries to power the emergency panel as a UPS. The only problem is I have not been able to find an approved grid tie inverter in the lower wattage range as well. Has anyone found any lower wattage units that would work?

This won't replace a EG4 3000 off grid inverter, and the HV hybrid version wouldn't work with OP's existing 48V batteries. Maybe there is a LV hybrid around that size, but I suspect a MultiPlus would have better forum support etc, and also be 120V compatible for sure
It would work for the use case above.

Victron would be good but I think he would need to buy a charge controller as well?
 
It's a lot cheaper to charge the mode setting, than to purchase different equipment and go through the process of replacing it.
If you have changed your mind and want a grid-tied setup, then I can understand.
But if what you have can do what you need, I'm confused.
 
It would work for the use case above.

Victron would be good but I think he would need to buy a charge controller as well?
Ah good point. I forget people actually use the SCCs.

Whenever I look at hybrids I don't care about that because I can only use microinverters/AC coupling with the way my property works.
 
It's a lot cheaper to charge the mode setting, than to purchase different equipment and go through the process of replacing it.
If you have changed your mind and want a grid-tied setup, then I can understand.
But if what you have can do what you need, I'm confused.

The only reason I can think of, other than missing this solution outright, is that the POCO want to send their goons out to read the stickers on the equipment. Or delegate that to AHJ.
 
The only reason I can think of, other than missing this solution outright, is that the POCO want to send their goons out to read the stickers on the equipment. Or delegate that to AHJ.
I believe that it was just a warning.
As long as there's no more exporting, then they don't care.
And it's once again, none of their business.
 
Just switch to microinverters. I had one of the early grid tied inverters, Advanced Energy GC 1000, on my original 660 Watt grid tied system. It was a 120 VAC output unit. It died after 15 plus or minus years of operation. When I wired the array, grid tied was real new and panels were still very expensive ($6 a watt). An electrician I knew gave me a couple rolls of 8-gauge THHN so I home ran each panel down to junction box in my basement next to the inverter and then I series wired the panels in the junction box before going to the inverter. There were not any good options for replacement, so I bought 5 Enphase microinverters which are UL 1741 for cheap on eBay and installed them next to the junction box then wired each panel to each microinverter. I also bought a short piece of trunk cable and ran that to my main panel. Its dumb system but each micro has a blinking LED to confirm it is putting out power. I only had 4 panels so I kept a Enphase as a spare. They are mounted in a cool basement so the environment is lot less harsh than up on a hot roof.

BTW, those panels are still putting out power after more than 20 years. I havent tested them but my guess is probably 600 watts.
 
First I want to thank all who are replying for their help. The solar panels I installed are 550 watt bifacial Renogy units. Currently they are in a series mode to give me a voltage that would run the inverter I bought. I installed these on a detached shed roof behind my home and ran 10 awg to bring the dc voltage into my home close to the panel. They give me more than enough power to run my sub panel on a sunny day.
 
When looking at the documents on some of the lower wattage panels, I am finding that they give a suggestion that they may be trying to get UL 1741 certification, but there is no actual certificate, The CE mark is not the same thing in the United States and is not recognized by the utility companies. As someone has pointed out, the utility companies want to see the actual stamp on the product.
 
In reference to the 6000 XP power information, I downloaded the manual for installation requirements and used these to submit the plan to install that the power company will have to approve. I realize that their numbers are definitely conservative, but if there is a problem I am back to where I am right now.
 
In reference to the 6000 XP power information, I downloaded the manual for installation requirements and used these to submit the plan to install that the power company will have to approve. I realize that their numbers are definitely conservative, but if there is a problem I am back to where I am right now.
The 6000XP is an off grid AIO. It doesn't need approval from the utility company.
Same as your microwave doesn't.
 
The EG4 3k says it is and off grid AIO as well, but since it occasionally backfeeds the grid, it means they have a say in it being plugged into their utility. This is not a legal issue I wish to fight in court.
 
I looked at the SRNE unit that was suggested, but even though I am sure it is a good unit, it is the same basic unit as the other 3k inverters. I also cannot find a UL 1741 certificate.
 
The EG4 3k says it is and off grid AIO as well, but since it occasionally backfeeds the grid, it means they have a say in it being plugged into their utility. This is not a legal issue I wish to fight in court.
Only when used in SUB mode.
 
An off grid AIO won't/ can't backfeed the grid.
With one exception, SUB mode.
SUB mode allows the AIO to operate in parallel with the grid. And act like a hybrid AIO in zero export mode. It has the same advantages and disadvantages for that setup.
This type of function wasn't a problem until the utility meters became super sensitive to micro bursts of export.
 
I checked out the SolArk 5K-1P that was suggested and it sounds like a pretty good match for my requirements. It is a bit of overkill for my needs, and I would still have to go to 8 awg wire for the power i/o, but that would be easy enough. It is about twice the cost of the 6000 XP, but it would keep me from spending additional money money to upgrade batteries, generator, and possibly solar. Definitely a contender if I don't find another option.
 
I checked out the SolArk 5K-1P that was suggested and it sounds like a pretty good match for my requirements. It is a bit of overkill for my needs, and I would still have to go to 8 awg wire for the power i/o, but that would be easy enough. It is about twice the cost of the 6000 XP, but it would keep me from spending additional money money to upgrade batteries, generator, and possibly solar. Definitely a contender if I don't find another option.

About 1/3 the price of the solark "15k"

Edit: sorry I saw you were looking at the solark 5k, not 15k
 

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top