diy solar

diy solar

Just having fun... (please comment... I'm new to this)

@Will Prowse always point out that they "boost" the voltage with 3S with the 3.7V cells in the portable units he reviews. I'd like to find a simple tiny circuit that can handle the required current to boost or drop down voltage for 3S and 4S builds, or a BMS that can do it. These batteries are cheaper than LPEs, and thus used a lot more in smaller packs like battery banks.

@Paul.Barrette without anything to lower the voltage, 3S is the more common configuration for 3.7V for a 12V application. You still can't realistically use the full range. but, that is the winner overall. You do, in that configuration, need to be sure you never exceed 12.6V when charging, as 4.2V is a very important upper limit to respect.
If I have 3S ... I would be charging the battery to 100% pretty much all the time to get to 12.6V
If I go 4S I would be charging the battery to only 85% to get to 14 volts.

Wouldn't I prolong the life of my battery pack by going 4S and using the MT50 configuration to limit the voltage of my pack by stoping the charge once it is at 14 volts?
 
If I have 3S ... I would be charging the battery to 100% pretty much all the time to get to 12.6V
If I go 4S I would be charging the battery to only 85% to get to 14 volts.

Wouldnt I prolong the life of my battey pack by going 4S as I am today?
You have to look at the skew between capacity and voltage on the charts. I think Jehu did a video on this and concluded that you obtain higher usable capacity with 3S, which is primarily what matters presuming you can control the cutoffs and charge profile.
 
I'm a homesteader,
Big gardens, home canning & jarring, chickens, deep wells, electric fences, outside lights, etc.

Everyone says, "65 watt panels that are 25-30 years old, those are junk"...
"Batteries that won't pull in a battery bank, those are junk"...

WELL...
A fence charger with battery, those old stray panels on a corner post do just fine,
The old batteries that aren't making the grade in a battery bank do just fine on a fence charger by themselves.

Same with a little LED light in an animal shelter, or a water level warning on a water trough.
I don't want to run my own power grid over 108 acres, but if a float valve goes on a water trough, I want to know my water pump is running and sucking power because a 10¢ gasket failed, I'd rather it turned on a flashing $2 bicycle flashing 'Tail' light...

There is also the question of security,
I know what those electric fences are for.
I went one step further, I replaced the LEDs in those motion sensor lawn/sidewalk lamps (China, $5 each, come with little solar panels, battery, motion sensors, control board).

I replace 'White' light LEDs with IR, use night vision optics on the rifle, when a hog, fox, coyote, stray dog or cat trips the motion sensor, they can't see it, but I can see them...
Same as IR trail/game cameras, but the threat/varmint is removed.

I buy IR LEDs by the 100 or 1,000 ot bags off surplus sites, but those LED IR rings from night vision camera are really cheap, posted out further it really extends the range of my night vision.

White light, older solar panel horizontal make rain shield on top of pipe, battery mounted on pipe, LEDs on cheap yard lamp controller,
Drive a metal fence post, lower the lamp pipe over it and it's mobile, put it where you want for as long as you want.
Light comes on a dark, or motion sensor, and goes off at daylight.

You just found a use for all those little cheap surplus batteries from cordless tools, emergency exit lights, etc.
Panel small enough, you don't need a charge controller...

-----------

I recognize that old wagon with steering, if it used to be 'Green' it's center tube so it flexes, but it will go places a rigid frame won't.
The first thing I tough was "DEER CAMP!"
We have an issue with vandals, so portable is good, lots of old busses repurposed as 'Deer Camps' around here.

I actually like the home built thing, and you did a good job!
 
Last edited:
You have to look at the skew between capacity and voltage on the charts. I think Jehu did a video on this and concluded that you obtain higher usable capacity with 3S, which is primarily what matters presuming you can control the cutoffs and charge profile.
This is the result of the test done by the person I bought the cels from:
1574884766782.png
 
This is the result of the test done by the person I bought the cels from:
View attachment 2609
See how most of the capacity is in the 3.4-4.2 range? It's not linear as you approach the low end, but rather a steep drop in voltage. This is why most do not let these cells go below 3.2V. There just isn't enough capacity below that to make it worth it. 14 / 4 is 3.5V. Your range would be 3.2-3.5V. Line that up with the X on that chart to get an idea how much capacity you'd have in that range. Then do that with 3S.
 
See how most of the capacity is in the 3.4-4.2 range? It's not linear as you approach the low end, but rather a steep drop in voltage. This is why most do not let these cells go below 3.2V. There just isn't enough capacity below that to make it worth it. 14 / 4 is 3.5V. Your range would be 3.2-3.5V. Line that up with the X on that chart to get an idea how much capacity you'd have in that range. Then do that with 3S.
Ouch .... that's like 4-5 AH

I was thinking of maybe stepping the battery pack up to 24 volts by adding two other cels and then introducing a voltage converter to go from 18-24 volts down to 12 volts ... this would give me more range to work with

Is this a good strategy with these cels or should I just move on? I can get two more cels for 23$ US each
 
Ouch .... that's like 4-5 AH

I was thinking of maybe stepping the battery pack up to 24 volts by adding two other cels and then introducing a voltage converter to go from 18-24 volts down to 12 volts ... this would give me more range to work with

Is this a good strategy with these cels or should I just move on? I can get two more cels for 23$ US each
I don't know the best solution. I just know that 3S is much more common for these for 12V applications for the reason I said.

LiFePO4s are really a lot easier in this regard. 4S for 12V, 8S for 24V. And much safer if you plan on storing in your home for anything other than a portable unit.

What kind of load are you hoping to put on it?
 
I don't know the best solution. I just know that 3S is much more common for these for 12V applications for the reason I said.

LiFePO4s are really a lot easier in this regard. 4S for 12V, 8S for 24V. And much safer if you plan on storing in your home for anything other than a portable unit.

What kind of load are you hoping to put on it?

Very low loads... I have to power:
1) 3 lead light 5 minutes a day
2) a small water pump for 60 minutes, once a week
3) My fence energizer 24 /7

I had a Goal Zero 400 lead acid version (sold now because I wanted to do this project) that powered the above no problem. never brought it down to lower than 80%.... used max 8 AH one day a week.

I can get more precise data if needed
 

Attachments

  • 1574907396025.png
    1574907396025.png
    106.2 KB · Views: 1
Last edited:
I've been using 3s li-ions for a decade now for my 12v radios, metal detectors, lights etc. I charge to 4.2 per cell and they last a long long time before dropping to 12.2v. I tried undercharged 4s and they didn't have anywhere near the capacity, not enough meat at those voltages. I use fully charged 4s for car jump start packs though.
 
Very low loads... I have to power

1) 3 lead light 5 minutes a day
2) a small water pump for 60 minutes, once a week
3) My fence energizer 24 /7

I had a Goal Zero 400 lead acid version (sold now because I wanted to do this project) that powered the above no problem. never brought it down to lower than 80%.... used max 8 AH one day a week.

I can get more precise data if needed
Are these all 12V DC or do you need an inverter to run any of them?

The core question is what voltage range can they handle and how do you stay in that range.

Also, regarding these cells vs LFPs, you really need a balancer for protection for non LFP. I mean, you want it for all chemistries. But, you have to have something to prevent runaway. The basic problem with cells in series is if one cell is failing or not charging enough, without a BMS, the charger does not know. The effect is it tries to overcharge the other cells. This can destroy the good cells, at a minimum. But, there is fire risk with the non-LFPs.

Until you commit to a chemistry and how many in series, you can't really pick a BMS. But, you do want to factor that in, and understand it is more critical with non-LFP chemistries.

But, going back to your loads, you typically start there and work backwards, as they define your minimum requirements, especially if using existing equipment. And voltage range is one of the parameters of your loads.

You then have to ask how you'll get to that voltage range. I really want to look into options for converting. I know you can do 24 to 12v easy. But, we see all the time products that have interesting battery configurations then convert to meet w/e requirements they have. But, no one I've seen has broken down how they are doing it. What chips or circuits are on their boards? What options are available for integrating such a circuit?

What I'd like to do is get a variable one, where I can dial the conversion up or down, and just use that for testing.

Your easiest route for now, though, is to test 3S. If it works for your loads, and you can live with the limited capacity range, then get a 3S BMS for protection, balance them and use the 3 cells that match the most, particularly on internal resistance. Keep the 4th as a spare or use it to power LEDs or USBs. I noticed a lot of the "DIY" power packs they are selling online just take 1S of 18650s of the 3.6V nominal, usually 4-8 in parallel. But, your cells look like they equal a good quantity of 18650s by the weight you listed of 0.72kg. You could hook up one of their circuit boards and charge via USB. The USB boards are yet another example of a voltage regulator built onto the circuit boards to provide stable boosted power.

One plus to the limited capacity range is more cycle life. So, you aren't really losing in the long run. It's more about how much you need in a 24 hour period and how long you can weather cloudy days, and that takes you back to your load requirements, and ability to recharge on a sunny day (PV capacity and charge rate).

I just weighed 10 18650s at 0.5 kg (in 5 plastic cases cuz don't really want to take them out lol) But that puts one of your cells near 15 of these. That extra cell would make a killer USB power bank. :)

1574911502707.png

I'm guessing your cells are near 30aH. That's about 110WH per cell, or 330WH for a 3S. Your capacity will be less based on the bottom end of the voltage your load can operate at, and where that falls on the DoD chart you posted. So, if you can achieve 80% capacity, that's 264WH.
 
Last edited:
BTW, where are you getting these cells for $23? If they are 30aH, then I like the price for a power pack, because that comes to $1.53 per 2aH 18650, which is unbeatable if you have a quality cell.
 
BTW, where are you getting these cells for $23? If they are 30aH, then I like the price for a power pack, because that comes to $1.53 per 2aH 18650, which is unbeatable if you have a quality cell.
They are 25 AH...

I got a deal from a friend but only for my 4 and I can get two more if I want them and I pick them up locally ... no extra shipping. Standard price is 40$ canadian per cel + shipping. Here is the link:

The person I bought them from purchased this pack and sold me a couple of cels:
 
Are these all 12V DC or do you need an inverter to run any of them?

The core question is what voltage range can they handle and how do you stay in that range.

Also, regarding these cells vs LFPs, you really need a balancer for protection for non LFP. I mean, you want it for all chemistries. But, you have to have something to prevent runaway. The basic problem with cells in series is if one cell is failing or not charging enough, without a BMS, the charger does not know. The effect is it tries to overcharge the other cells. This can destroy the good cells, at a minimum. But, there is fire risk with the non-LFPs.

Until you commit to a chemistry and how many in series, you can't really pick a BMS. But, you do want to factor that in, and understand it is more critical with non-LFP chemistries.

But, going back to your loads, you typically start there and work backwards, as they define your minimum requirements, especially if using existing equipment. And voltage range is one of the parameters of your loads.

You then have to ask how you'll get to that voltage range. I really want to look into options for converting. I know you can do 24 to 12v easy. But, we see all the time products that have interesting battery configurations then convert to meet w/e requirements they have. But, no one I've seen has broken down how they are doing it. What chips or circuits are on their boards? What options are available for integrating such a circuit?

What I'd like to do is get a variable one, where I can dial the conversion up or down, and just use that for testing.

Your easiest route for now, though, is to test 3S. If it works for your loads, and you can live with the limited capacity range, then get a 3S BMS for protection, balance them and use the 3 cells that match the most, particularly on internal resistance. Keep the 4th as a spare or use it to power LEDs or USBs. I noticed a lot of the "DIY" power packs they are selling online just take 1S of 18650s of the 3.6V nominal, usually 4-8 in parallel. But, your cells look like they equal a good quantity of 18650s by the weight you listed of 0.72kg. You could hook up one of their circuit boards and charge via USB. The USB boards are yet another example of a voltage regulator built onto the circuit boards to provide stable boosted power.

One plus to the limited capacity range is more cycle life. So, you aren't really losing in the long run. It's more about how much you need in a 24 hour period and how long you can weather cloudy days, and that takes you back to your load requirements, and ability to recharge on a sunny day (PV capacity and charge rate).

I just weighed 10 18650s at 0.5 kg (in 5 plastic cases cuz don't really want to take them out lol) But that puts one of your cells near 15 of these. That extra cell would make a killer USB power bank. :)

View attachment 2613

I'm guessing your cells are near 30aH. That's about 110WH per cell, or 330WH for a 3S. Your capacity will be less based on the bottom end of the voltage your load can operate at, and where that falls on the DoD chart you posted. So, if you can achieve 80% capacity, that's 264WH.
(They are rated at 25 AH)

Wow .. this is great information .... my brain will explode soon (like my batteries)... too much information to process.
I will definitely go the 3s route and I already have a BMS. I have a small inverter but it is not required ... I can live without it and that is the item that craps out at low and high voltage... I'll check the other items for voltage requirements

For the extra cel... What would I use to charge just one of my 4.2 volt cels? What would I use to step up the voltage to 5 volts? I will search online... any suggestions welcome
 
(They are rated at 25 AH)

Wow .. this is great information .... my brain will explode soon (like my batteries)... too much information to process.
I will definitely go the 3s route and I already have a BMS. I have a small inverter but it is not required ... I can live without it and that is the item that craps out at low and high voltage... I'll check the other items for voltage requirements

For the extra cel... What would I use to charge just one of my 4.2 volt cels? What would I use to step up the voltage to 5 volts? I will search online... any suggestions welcome

I'll look when I have a chance. But, they sell these "DIY" power packs where you just add 18650 cells. Why I quote "DIY". How is just adding batteries DIY? But that's what they call it on the ebay listings.

I remember seeing that you could also buy the circuit board w/o the case, which is what you'd want. It does it all. Has USB in and out, so you can charge with USB and then plug USB devices into it, to charge a phone, for instance. But that board obviously has a voltage regulator for 3.6V to 5.1V.

BTW, I jump back and forth between 3.6V and 3.7V. They are both the same cells. 3.6V is technically correct, but marketing rounded it up to 3.7V, so that's what we see everywhere. Marketing always wins over technical, so one day, 3.6V nominal will probably disappear completely.
 
I'll look when I have a chance. But, they sell these "DIY" power packs where you just add 18650 cells. Why I quote "DIY". How is just adding batteries DIY? But that's what they call it on the ebay listings.

I remember seeing that you could also buy the circuit board w/o the case, which is what you'd want. It does it all. Has USB in and out, so you can charge with USB and then plug USB devices into it, to charge a phone, for instance. But that board obviously has a voltage regulator for 3.6V to 5.1V.

BTW, I jump back and forth between 3.6V and 3.7V. They are both the same cells. 3.6V is technically correct, but marketing rounded it up to 3.7V, so that's what we see everywhere. Marketing always wins over technical, so one day, 3.6V nominal will probably disappear completely.
Is this what you are referencing...

 
Is this what you are referencing...

See these DIY power banks? What you want is the circuit board in them w/o the case. The USB ports are on the board. So you literally just connect your cell and then you can plug in a charger or load into the USB ports. Super simple. You will need to create your own case, though. But, you can get it running in seconds. You'll want to add a quick disconnect for your cell, such as an XT-60 connector. So, you'd solder one one end of that connection to the board. The other end to loose wires you would then bind to your cell posts. Then you plug in your battery with the XT-60 and it's live!
 
See these DIY power banks? What you want is the circuit board in them w/o the case. The USB ports are on the board. So you literally just connect your cell and then you can plug in a charger or load into the USB ports. Super simple. You will need to create your own case, though. But, you can get it running in seconds. You'll want to add a quick disconnect for your cell, such as an XT-60 connector. So, you'd solder one one end of that connection to the board. The other end to loose wires you would then bind to your cell posts. Then you plug in your battery with the XT-60 and it's live!
Here is an example. But shop around. You can get more ports on a single board, and some have nice displays. I'd look for one that showed the voltage of your cell if possible, and and easy way to turn on/off. If it doesn't come with a switch, you can simply add one to your connection between your quick disconnect and where you solder one end to the board. Otherwise, you'd have to disconnect the cell every time you are not using it. And the board could have an idle draw, especially if it has a display.

I don't know if these boards have any kind of LV protection for the cells. But, you could experiment if they don't say. Just never let the cell go below 2.5V. You could even test that, perhaps, with a single 18650 in case the test kills the cell. lol
 
Also, those super cheap $20 "MPPT" solar chargers with USB ports on them work really well. I've plugged in a 100W panel and charged all my phones directly on the port. But, if you create a power bank, you could actually charge it with a solar panel.

The only thing is I'm afraid to try two panels in series with those units, because they probably are not really MPPTs. The voltage could blow them. But, I've had no issue with a single 100W panel.
 
New
Here is an example. But shop around. You can get more ports on a single board, and some have nice displays. I'd look for one that showed the voltage of your cell if possible, and and easy way to turn on/off. If it doesn't come with a switch, you can simply add one to your connection between your quick disconnect and where you solder one end to the board. Otherwise, you'd have to disconnect the cell every time you are not using it. And the board could have an idle draw, especially if it has a display.

I don't know if these boards have any kind of LV protection for the cells. But, you could experiment if they don't say. Just never let the cell go below 2.5V. You could even test that, perhaps, with a single 18650 in case the test kills the cell. lol
New project!
 
Last edited:
So first thing I did was to bring down the voltage of each cell to about 3 volts each with this...
1575238069028.png

The i used my CellMeter to balance the cells to 0.01 volts of each other. The voltage displayed is incorrect I brought them down to 3.0X volts each which is the minumun=m documented

1575238272764.png

Then I charged the battery pack at 12 volts and 2 amps using a conventional car battery charger...
9j=keeping a good eye on it to not overcharge)
1575238470173.png

...and brought the battery pack up to 12.3 volts.
1575238349009.png

The I used the cell meter to re-balance the cells to 4.1x each... the max of each cell is 4.2 volts
1575238272764.png
 

Attachments

  • 1575238156560.png
    1575238156560.png
    649.8 KB · Views: 0
Also my MP50 is not showing the battery charged correctly...

IMG_1012.jpeg


I am not sure what setting I could have got wrong... I have set the charge limit to 12.3 so it should show me 100% at 12.3.

The shunt it configured that way and I see it display correctly
IMG_1011.jpeg
 

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top