250VOC charge controller options?

It appears there are limited to no choices for 250VOC charge controllers below Victron, maybe Midnite, or Sigineer.

No Epever, Ampinvt, or MPPSolar offerings?

I just purchased six REC ~45VOC 315W panels new but 2016 mfg. just never installed. and hoped for 3S2P but my Epevers would probably fry in winter.

Planning to charge lithium batteries so I’ll probably face panels a single direction because they won’t care if they discharge and don’t go back up to 100% quickly.

But 3S is ~135V so that feels way to close to exceeding 150V when it’s cold.

Any product suggestions?

Yep. those should be 2S on 150V. I made that mistake with my 47Voc panels - went 3S on a 150/100 Victron. Fortunately, they were on the -3% low side of spec, and I caught it before winter, so the MPPT suffered no ill effects. I upgraded to a 250/100 as I didn't want to rewire the array and 2S9P would have exceed the 70A PV input limit.

If this is for charging your 12V system, why? The only benefit to higher Voc/Vmp is for reduced wiring losses. MPPT get less efficient at higher voltages.

This Growatt MPPT is 250V/120A:

sunshine_eggo said:

this is for charging your 12V system, why

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New, separate system to supply LiFePo bank (yet unselected) to not suck the current lead acids dry their winter while running the furnace overnight, and not having to be concerned with days on end of partial charge.
It ‘might’ be 12V but undecided on 24V. I do have plenty of spare 12V equipment so I might just do that.
On the other side of the coin a piece of property I’ve put inquiries on is a def possibility and there’s grid less than 100’ away if I buy that

Sigineer has one...haven't seen much review type info on it though.

A few other options if you want to try out an aliexpress special, or something more expensive...

BuffaloTrace said:

aliexpress

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Thank you for the sigineer suggestion.

Aliex? I’m ok buying cheaper, middle- to low-tier equipment with a track record but I’m not too excited about cheapo equipment that can start a fire if it’s cheap in the wrong places - “failing open” is an attractive feature

sunshine_eggo said:

MPPT get less efficient at higher voltages

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I’m so overpaneled in summer, and even sunny days in winter… but the overcast yucky days are common in the Cold Dark Season and I’ve found getting some charge is more likely (probable, even?) by stacking volts. (I wish they’d had eight panels not six; cuz I could 2S2P on 40A SCCs if it comes down to it)

But maybe I’m in a rut.

The overall goal is to dump into a LiFePo bank and maybe not have to worry about grid supplemental or a generator?

Another thing came up is a half-acre on a main road with a power line right there. Might do it as an investment but I don’t like 1/2 acre when I want to be out the populated places.

BUT SBU on the MPPSolar 1012LV-MK sorta takes care of overnight with plenty of storage in a power outage. I just can’t run the vacuum without using the other inverter, and if the fridge comes on making coffee or ironing it shuts down, too. But the 2000W QZRELB doesn’t seem to care even running an electric chainsaw LOL

I just want to dump into a LiFePo that won’t care if it gets 100% charged everyday. Plus creeping up on five years (and going the month of November last fall without fully charging seemed to have effected them; hydrometer on the way) the lead acid batteries are seeming not to hold 13.2 as well. And the new fridge is 25W higher consumption and runs more often which has them at 12.1-12.3 every morning.

So I just want to maximize charging possibility and have a LiFePo as backup; thinking I may use a voltage controller relay board thingie I have and switch over to LiFePo when the ‘lead side’ goes low. Any efficiency loss in winter is absolutely not a concern because it is in the form of heat which I need anyway LOL

Morningstar, maybe Xantrex and others go 600 Voc if the right model is chosen.

I have both a MidNite Classic 250 and two Victron 250|100's, and one reason I bought these is because they actually confirm you can run 63a max on the MC 250, and 70a max on the Victron, so you can overpanel Isc in parallel with confidence at least up to those ratings.

Victron has SCC's with 450v max PV now too if desired...


EDIT:
Nevermind on the 63a number for the MC 250, I just checked again and that is max output current on charger side. For some reason I thought that was input (I'll have to look it up again to see why I thought that).

But the Victron for sure specs out 70a max for Isc on the input...


EDIT EDIT:
I just checked again and the specs sheet for MC 250 says they're fully protected from overcurrent on both inputs and outputs, so I guess there's no limit to how much you can overpanel on Isc, only have to stay under PV max volts...

Samsonite801 said:

I have both a MidNite Classic 250 and two Victron 250|100's, and one reason I bought these is because they actually confirm you can run 63a max on the MC 250, and 70a max on the Victron, so you can overpanel Isc in parallel with confidence at least up to those ratings.

Victron has SCC's with 450v max PV now too if desired...

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Watch out for these... they have notable input current limits, and they start doing some funky stuff at peak battery voltage. One guy with Rolls batteries, that REQUIRE absorption at 60V, was pissed to no end because they throttle their output dramatically at that level. He struggled to get fully charged. A firmware update took the sting out for that user, but they aren't completely tickled because they're not particularly effective at higher battery voltages. Almost useless for equalizing FLA at a potential 64.8V.

sunshine_eggo said:

Watch out for these... they have notable input current limits, and they start doing some funky stuff at peak battery voltage. One guy with Rolls batteries, that REQUIRE absorption at 60V, was pissed to no end because they throttle their output dramatically at that level. He struggled to get fully charged. A firmware update took the sting out for that user, but they aren't completely tickled because they're not particularly effective at higher battery voltages. Almost useless for equalizing FLA at a potential 64.8V.

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Which are "these" ? The 450V Victron?

ArkRob said:

Which are "these" ? The 450V Victron?

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bolded the Victron for clarity.

sunshine_eggo said:

Watch out for these... they have notable input current limits, and they start doing some funky stuff at peak battery voltage. One guy with Rolls batteries, that REQUIRE absorption at 60V, was pissed to no end because they throttle their output dramatically at that level. He struggled to get fully charged. A firmware update took the sting out for that user, but they aren't completely tickled because they're not particularly effective at higher battery voltages. Almost useless for equalizing FLA at a potential 64.8V.

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You probably knew what I meant maybe but just to clarify possibly for others, they do cap/clip PV amps at peak PV watts rating (based on which battery bank voltage you're using), but the 70a max Isc value was just a hard max as far as overpaneling went.

Is this phenomenon (the one you described) only applying on the 450|100 or also the 250|100 ?

I have no experience with the 450|100, only my 250|100, and to top that off, so far I only have experience with running mine on a 12v bank. It sounds like if one is using LFP there is no need to ever run a Victron up to 60v, so good for me I guess later, when I might hook these up to a 48v LFP bank...

If I ever bought another, I'd also get a third 250|100 just to keep matching arrays, since I have a bunch of 8 awg cable left over, and just do the 4s2p panel wiring, same like my other 2 arrays. Seems to work great thus far.

Samsonite801 said:

You probably knew what I meant maybe but just to clarify possibly for others, they do cap/clip PV amps at peak PV watts rating (based on which battery bank voltage you're using), but the 70a max Isc value was just a hard max as far as overpaneling went.

Is this phenomenon (the one you described) only applying on the 450|100 or also the 250|100 ?

I have no experience with the 450|100, only my 250|100, and to top that off, so far I only have experience with running mine on a 12v bank. It sounds like if one is using LFP there is no need to ever run a Victron up to 60v, so good for me I guess later, when I might hook these up to a 48v LFP bank...

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450/100.

Fine for 16S LFP. Not great for 48V lead acid.

Temp comp in cold weather can easily push lead-acid well over 60V. At freezing, my T-1275 Trojans charged to >62V normally.

The 250/100 is luscious. I gaze at it lovingly every trip into the container.

sunshine_eggo said:

The 250/100 is luscious. I gaze at it lovingly every trip into the container.

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Yeah same here nice to gaze at, and well they are tried and proven, so go with what works hehe... I even threw the optional LCD displays on them so you can walk up to them and see what they're doing without the app, like both pegged at 100a...

I did put a little fan down there to blow on them since they are in my enclosed motorhome basement and we're getting all these hot days with AC running in the main cabin all day, it does help keep them from being as hot as without. Now just need to wire the little thermostat switch on the fan so it can have automatic control.

Samsonite801 said:

Yeah same here nice to gaze at, and well they are tried and proven, so go with what works hehe... I even threw the optional LCD displays on them so you can walk up to them and see what they're doing without the app, like both pegged at 100a...

I did put a little fan down there to blow on them since they are in my enclosed motorhome basement and we're getting all these hot days with AC running in the main cabin all day, it does help keep them from being as hot as without. Now just need to wire the little thermostat switch on the fan so it can have automatic control.

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LOL... I almost pulled the trigger on the display, but I have a CCGX sitting a couple feet from it... push the button and it comes on, and I see every-ting!... Every once in awhile I make the right choice... not like when I hooked 7 temperature sensors to the battery.... But... I'd still do it again...

Quattro #1
Quattro #2
BMV-702
SBS
3X Batrium temp sensors.

I want everything on the planet telling the system not to charge when it's below 3°C!!!!

sunshine_eggo said:

LOL... I almost pulled the trigger on the display, but I have a CCGX sitting a couple feet from it... push the button and it comes on, and I see every-ting!... Every once in awhile I make the right choice... not like when I hooked 7 temperature sensors to the battery.... But... I'd still do it again...

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I thought of getting one of those CCGX at some point (they look super cool), we'll see how it goes, funds had to shift into other directions though for now until I get a shop up, and some good LED high-bay lighting for it. Someday I would like to play with one of those though.

sunshine_eggo said:

Quattro #1
Quattro #2
BMV-702
SBS
3X Batrium temp sensors.

I want everything on the planet telling the system not to charge when it's below 3°C!!!!

Click to expand...

I totally understand you here hehe. Doesn't hurt to have redundancy. That's one reason I got the BMV-712, for the external single point temp sensor (well, and after I found out that the internal Victron temp sensor inside the SCC only polls the ambient temp like once a day or something, where the BMV gives realtime live temperature data information to the SCCs)...

Of course the BMSs have their low temp cutoffs on each 4s module. I also got the 3M heat pads all stuck onto the bottoms of the 3 dual-12v-modules, I still need to wire up the thermostats to power them before this Winter.

In addition, the main furnace in the motorhome does have one basement duct down there so that might help if the furnace is running. Might even put a Little Buddy down their if I need, maybe even just the pilot light on would help, or leave the burner on low...

I was able to find cases for those little thermostat module boards I had though, so that will make mounting them cleaner:

And did find some of the complete thermostats that already come in the cases so I can keep a couple of spares around:

We'll see how it goes, it's my first Winter coming up so I'm learning the real world side on the motorhome boondocking experience. The hope though is I get my shop up by November-ish, and get the motorhome inside the shelter, to provide some extra insulation buffer around it to help shield for the high winds here in the Winter (well really, it's windy here all year round).

If you already have a Cerbo, no use for a GX. I would opt for a Cerbo + display if I had to do it over - many more connection options with the Cerbo.

I'm a little nervous about this winter. I need to build an insulated box or something. It's rare that it's below freezing for > 24 hours, but I need to come up with a solution soon.

sunshine_eggo said:

need to build an insulated box or something

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For batteries outside?

12VoltInstalls said:

For batteries outside?

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Inside a shipping container. Basically just protection from wind and rain. If it's in the sun, it's 10-15°F hotter than ambient. If it's cloudy, it's ambient.

sunshine_eggo said:

Inside a shipping container. Basically just protection from wind and rain. If it's in the sun, it's 10-15°F hotter than ambient. If it's cloudy, it's ambient.

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I've heard of people making entire storage containers into equipment rooms, by lining all the walls and ceiling with styrofoam-style insulation paneling, and then maybe put a little mini-split in it if found necessary to fine tune a specific ambient room temperature?

Samsonite801 said:

I've heard of people making entire storage containers into equipment rooms, by lining all the walls and ceiling with styrofoam-style insulation paneling, and then maybe put a little mini-split in it if found necessary to fine tune a specific ambient room temperature?

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I regret not putting some sort of insulation in it at the outset. it's poked full of stuff including about 36 feet of industrial racking. The short term plan is to build a simple box of 2" foam board to slow the temperature swings. Another fellow in my area did a quicky insulation job with 1" poly styrene. He kept a 1 gallon jug of water on the floor as a test. It never froze even when daily temps stayed below freezing.

sunshine_eggo said:

I regret not putting some sort of insulation in it at the outset. it's poked full of stuff including about 36 feet of industrial racking.

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Hey, on the bright side all that stuff is extra thermal mass hehe..

sunshine_eggo said:

The short term plan is to build a simple box of 2" foam board to slow the temperature swings. Another fellow in my area did a quicky insulation job with 1" poly styrene. He kept a 1 gallon jug of water on the floor as a test. It never froze even when daily temps stayed below freezing.

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Another thing a couple of our shareholders have started building is to have a cellar under ground level, and insulate the ceiling really well. None of them have the finished product yet, but a couple holes dug and some cement work ready. I know in Utah, when you get 5 ft down it is 56° F all year round.

The only concern I had with that is to engineer it properly for water drainage in flash flood. I thought of having sloping grade moving water away from the foundation outward, a roof that extends out a couple feet wider than the foundation (water gutters and pipe bringing water away from structure). Of course also having the water liner around the foundation itself.

I have pondered about going that route, or just planning on putting batteries indoors in a temp-controlled equipment room...

Just ideas for now...

I have on hand two Triron 4215N controllers, my old Tracer 4210, and the MPPSolar 1012LV-MK. I decided (because of the furnace fan) to stay 12V and use a couple or three cheapo but positive reviews LiFePo batteries in the 140Ah range.

Undecided how to run this right now; I can think of a few ways that I both like and don’t like for various reasons.

Currently thinking of keeping the Tracer under the 4S2P 100W panels and use that system to finish sucking the life out of my walmartha deep cycles exclusively for my everyday 12V stuff.

I can run the inverter off the LiFePo side. At 45V I can use the Trirons for two panels each in series, and stick the other two on the MPP but I don’t really like that setup. I’ve only got $330 total into the Trirons so pretty low money outlay.

But I don’t really like that. Maybe I should just go all in lithium but I do like the current setup as it works well 7+ months of the year. And redundancy.

Rambling a bit. I’m almost wishing I’d spent the big bucks and got one unit that will do 3S2P but then again: redundancies are nice.

For 12v or 24v systems, 150v VOC seems to work well, especially up to 120 amps, with the use of 60 cell solar panels 37v voc.

There are just so many options it's just a balancing act between what panels you use and what voltage and amps you need. The price ranges on SCCs seems to be pretty well set and tight range based on Voc and Amperage rating alone (for all user programmable SCC) aside from any aliexpress questionable specials.

For use with s 12v system that sigineer dual mppt at 250v 60a each would be pretty sweet. Could keep everything in series and no parallels with basically any panel.

The growatt 250v 120a would only need one pair of 2 series connected strings. Most of the 150v 60a SCC would work fine too though.......

BuffaloTrace said:

For use with s 12v system that sigineer dual mppt at 250v 60a each would be pretty sweet. Could keep everything in series and no parallels with basically any panel.

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This one? https://www.sigineer.com/product/12...attery-temp-sensor-wi-fi-gprs-remote-monitor/

At its $500 price point that’s decent. I don’t know why but I missed that particular model when I was searching stuff.
The panels are 45V (?) so in series 270VOC - 3S2P still required but I’m fine with that.
Edit: I forgot for a moment it has dual mppts. That’s appealing.

I don’t know what it is exactly but I have an aversion to growatt while sigineer has a strong reputation. Which is important as I’d likely not buy two at $500 just to have a pnp backup.
MPPSolar has a hole in their US AIO product line due to their 12V offerings being stuck on 1000W output. The Giandel 1200W pure sine never shut down on me while the 1012LV-MK hits the rev limiter occasionally if the fridge starts while making coffee or ironing a shirt, and every time i use the vacuum cleaner.
FWIW a 12V 2000W AIO with a 250V 50- or 60A SCC I think could have a good market. Victron sorta has this but 3000W