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Can I go off grid with all the gears I have for now

JaneczkaKad-DSF

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Joined
Oct 11, 2022
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Hi, folks
I am a newbie to this forum.
My question was like , Can I go off grid with all the gears I have for now?
I got like array 12v 200Ah Lifepo batteries, with a 10kw inverter.
And here is the list I want to load with the system:
One fridge (extremely efficient)
One old deep freezer, probably very inefficient, or let's say always good
One washing machine
One kettle
One Security system
One Gate motor with my garage
One microwave
One 65" TVs
One pool pump
 
Hi, folks
I am a newbie to this forum.
Welcome! Prepare to have your brain overfilled!
My question was like , Can I go off grid with all the gears I have for now?
Maybe, let's see:
I got like array 12v 200Ah Lifepo batteries, with a 10kw inverter.
Ouch! A 10Kw 12v system? How many batteries? What's your nominal voltage? How many and what size panels are feeding this?
And here is the list I want to load with the system:
One fridge (extremely efficient)
OK, not too bad
One old deep freezer, probably very inefficient, or let's say always good
That's going to eat some battery
One washing machine
Ouch.
One kettle
OUCH!
One Security system
OK if it's not too extensive
One Gate motor with my garage
OK, not too hard
One microwave
OUCH!
One 65" TVs
Ouch.
One pool pump
Ouch!

It really depends on what your whole system is made of. The kettle, microwave, pool pump, and old freezer are going to be really hard on your system.

While some of your things aren't too bad for the initial all-at-once draw, you've got a LOT of items that are going to need power all day long and you only get so much sunlight during a day to recharge batteries.

What's your average power usage per month according to your power bill? You can use that to give you a rough guesstimate on how much capacity you're going to need and how much panel you'll need to refill those batteries. Figure your bog standard LFP battery on a 48v system is good for about 5Kwh, so take your monthly power usage, divide by 30 days, then divide by 5 and that'll tell you about how much you use each day as a rough guide. Do you have that much power in your batteries? Can you survive a few days of krappy weather? Can your panels produce enough to refill those batteries in 4 or 5 hours?

So get us some more info, the more the better and we can tell you if and where you're coming up short.
 
Yeah, 10kw at 12v is something like 1,000 amps!

The math says your 200ah battery would support that load for about a minute, if it didn't instantly melt down under the 1,000 amp load. I've never seen a 1000 amp BMS, so it might not become a molten liquid battery.
 
Welcome! Prepare to have your brain overfilled!

Maybe, let's see:

Ouch! A 10Kw 12v system? How many batteries? What's your nominal voltage? How many and what size panels are feeding this?

OK, not too bad

That's going to eat some battery

Ouch.

OUCH!

OK if it's not too extensive

OK, not too hard

OUCH!

Ouch.

Ouch!

It really depends on what your whole system is made of. The kettle, microwave, pool pump, and old freezer are going to be really hard on your system.

While some of your things aren't too bad for the initial all-at-once draw, you've got a LOT of items that are going to need power all day long and you only get so much sunlight during a day to recharge batteries.

What's your average power usage per month according to your power bill? You can use that to give you a rough guesstimate on how much capacity you're going to need and how much panel you'll need to refill those batteries. Figure your bog standard LFP battery on a 48v system is good for about 5Kwh, so take your monthly power usage, divide by 30 days, then divide by 5 and that'll tell you about how much you use each day as a rough guide. Do you have that much power in your batteries? Can you survive a few days of krappy weather? Can your panels produce enough to refill those batteries in 4 or 5 hours?

So get us some more info, the more the better and we can tell you if and where you're coming up short.
thank you for your reply.
Will get a sense meter and figure out
 
Yeah, 10kw at 12v is something like 1,000 amps!

The math says your 200ah battery would support that load for about a minute, if it didn't instantly melt down under the 1,000 amp load. I've never seen a 1000 amp BMS, so it might not become a molten liquid battery.
any suggestions about the batteries? kinda searching
 
Higher voltage. 48 volts is standard for larger systems and would be much more realistic as the current is divided by 4.

But, I'd start with a energy audit to help define your loads and decide what you need backed up.
Once you have an understanding of your actual energy usage and peak draw, you can define the inverter (peak draw) and battery capacity (how long you want to run off grid)

With what you have, the key will be realistic expectations and load shedding. You might be able to run the fridge, some lights and the TV.

The pool pump is a huge, long duration load and will need to be ignored off grid.
Does the washing machine have an integrated heater? That's another large load.

The kettle and microwave are also medium/large loads, but at shorter durations.

What's your plan to recharge? Solar?
 
Higher voltage. 48 volts is standard for larger systems and would be much more realistic as the current is divided by 4.

But, I'd start with a energy audit to help define your loads and decide what you need backed up.
Once you have an understanding of your actual energy usage and peak draw, you can define the inverter (peak draw) and battery capacity (how long you want to run off grid)

With what you have, the key will be realistic expectations and load shedding. You might be able to run the fridge, some lights and the TV.

The pool pump is a huge, long duration load and will need to be ignored off grid.
Does the washing machine have an integrated heater? That's another large load.

The kettle and microwave are also medium/large loads, but at shorter durations.

What's your plan to recharge? Solar?
thanks, 400bird.
I assume I got to learn a lots from you guys, so 48v batteries, and I gonna run some engergy audit which help me figure things out here, and notes taken about your suggestions regarding the pool pump.
 
Hi, folks
I am a newbie to this forum.
My question was like , Can I go off grid with all the gears I have for now?
I got like array 12v 200Ah Lifepo batteries, with a 10kw inverter.
at best you have a 2-3kw inverter if its 12v. China likes putting whatever number on it they feel like.
Which may work for you, however it certainly wont power more than a couple of those things in your list at once.

12v@200ah = 2400whrs/24hrs = 100w

a 100w/hr is.... not a lot.
 
Things with electric motors and things that heat are the two categories that use the most electricity. The more of those things you have to power the bigger your batteries and the more panels you need.
 
It sounds like you're starting from scratch so let me throw in my blurbs to get you pointed in the right direction:

Well, I'll start the default answer to these questions and we can work from there. Here's you To-Do list:

1: Power audit! This will give you some important information on how big your inverter needs to be as well as how much battery capacity you'll need. There is a link in the FAQ section (I think, or someone here will post it shortly) so fill in the blanks and see what it comes up with. You'll probably need some sort of Kill-A-Watt to get accurate measurements. Are you going to be running a 12v system? 24v system? 48v system? What are the specs on your solar panels? VoC? Vmp? Being as this is a new build, throw together a wish list of what you want and estimate on the high side.

1a: Where do you live? Speccing out a system for Scotland is a LOT different numbers than Arizona due to the amount of light you actually get. Someone here can post the link to the PVwatts.com or JCR Solar Uber-Sun-Hours calculator sites to help figure out how much you'll have to work with. That will be a box in the Power Audit form.

2: Parts list: You don't need a make & model list, just a parts list to start from for reference. You'll need an inverter, a MPPT charge controller, fuses, shunt, buck converter, batteries, wire, etc. Once you have a basic list it can be fine tuned to make & models after that. If you're looking at the All-In-Ones check for correct voltage outputs (120v or 240v Split Phase for North America, 220v Single Phase for European type areas) and make sure it has enough capacity for a little bit of growth and fudge factor.

3: Budget!: Steak is great but doesn't mean anything if your wallet says hamburger. :) Figure out what you're able to spend now vs what you'll have to cheap out on now and upgrade later.

4: Tape measure! Figure out where you're going to stick all the stuff you'll need. A dozen 3000AH batteries sounds great until you're sleeping on the floor because there's no room left for a bed. Is there a compartment that can house all this stuff? Will the server rack batteries fit? Are you going to have to make space? Physics can be pretty unforgiving.

5: Pencil out what you think you need and throw it at us so we can tell you what you've missed (because we ALL miss stuff the first go-round :) ) and help figure out which parts and pieces you're going to want to get.


Stop spending money until you figure out what YOUR system will look like. Sadly there is no standard answer to the age old question of "How much do I need?" because everyone's system is different.

Start out by grabbing the PowerAudit form from the Resources section. You're going to run through this form at LEAST 3 times before you know what your system is going to look like. The first pass is where you throw in ALL the things you might want. Dual air conditioning? Sure. Electric cooktop? Why not. MargaritaMaster-9000? Go for it!

The next pass you're going to do the exact opposite and only put in what you ABSOLUTELY NEED this time. Do you really NEED that many light bulbs? Do you really NEED that 40ft chest freezer? Do you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE that MargaritaMaster-9000 or can you cut it down to the 3000 model? That's going to give you the absolute minimum that your system is going to need to provide.

The next pass is going to be the more realistic audit now that you've had a chance to get a feel for how it all works. This is where you put in how many light bulbs and air conditioners and MargaritaMasters you Realistically think you're going to use on a daily basis.

Now that you have a goal in mind for what your system Should do, this is where the tape measure comes in. You mention this is all in a new build so the next question is "Where do I stick it?" since a dozen rack mount batteries sounds great until you're sleeping in the kitchen. The other big factor is you only have so much roof space to mount panels so plan on where you're going to be able to mount them. If your Audit comes up with, let's say for example numbers, 3000w of panels, can you physically FIT that much panel up there? Are you going to have to supplement with deployable ground mount panels? Do you have anything sticking up out the top, like a chimney or vent, that is going to prevent panels from fitting tightly? Physics is pretty unforgiving on this one. :(

Now that you've spent hours (yup, hours) figuring out what you need, where to stick the parts, and what you can afford there will be an overlap of those 3 that make YOUR system perfect for you. Is it the right system for me? Or for 12vInstalls? Or Eggo_Sunshine? Probably not, but it's the PERFECT system for YOU and that's the end goal of any system.

Also make notes about what kind of sun you're likely to get. Head over to PVWatts and the JRC Solar Calculator site and start plugging in numbers to see what your panels can realistically get out of them.


Don't panic, you're not the first to deal with this, and you won't be the last. We're here to help. :)
 
So the question unasked is: are you committed to 12V? Other than the pool pump you ‘could’ accomplish the loads with a 12V system. But unless you ‘need’ a 12V system 24V or 48V offer several advantages for larger power demand systems.

To summarize, there are a plethora of lighting and minor appliance options available in 12V from the RV and automotive markets, a little less so for 24V. That’s an advantage in some circumstances.
48V has little DC device support, but that is likely not relevant if you simply wish to run a household as if it were simply connected to the grid because by the time you accommodate for washing machines and pool pumps the little loads like phone chargers, TVs, and LED lighting are minuscule average loads on a strong 48V system.

Also, if redundancy or equipment failure backups are important to you, 12- and 24V equipment is likely to be more readily available locally. It’s not that 48V equipment is a unicorn, but you can’t pick up a 48V inverter in stock at a Lowe’s or Walmart for example, and that’s mostly true of 24V as well. So with 48V you’ll want either top-tier equipment or backups on hand (to my way of thinking).

But none of that is discussable until you record the energy audit data and report back. You could build a robust 48V or 24V system that exceeds your needs but is reasonably sized, or just as readily over- or under-spend if you don’t know the target demands and typical sunshine exposure characteristics.

Things to report back with while you take the time to record the energy audit:
1) what locale are you in?
1b) I’m assuming north of south america…
2) will you have or desire grid backup?
3) will you have or desire a generator?
4) will battery(s) be kept above freezing?
5) will you ground or roof mount panels?
6) are you willing to adjust time-of-day usage?
7) is pool pump 120VAC or 240VAC?
 
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