After three days of reading, I think I have better questions! Looking for AIO with 200A utility pass through......

[cdherman]

I have posted several times in the last couple days. I have time on my hands, cannot lift or be outside due to cataract surgery, so dedicating my time to figuring out what the family farm needs for solar.

-- I have verified that the local utility Rolling Hills allows for net metering and grid tie systems. So long as the utility is functional, I have little desire to invest in major off grid or battery systems. Their Kwh rate is reasonable. Could change of course, thus desire to future proof the system with max flexibility.
-- I have a Ford Lightning ER (~120 kwh battery) that can function quite nicely as a battery backup during brief outages (has 9.8k inverter, 240v, and we already have whole enterprise genset switches)
-- I want to initially just do Grid-Tie solar, looking at around 15k watts of installed panels. The location (large shed roof) is prefect in all ways except distance from entrance pole. How to remedy that is a secondary issue. Initially I would just hook up the distant shed to the grid with a disconnect close to the meter, which makes the utility happy.
-- I *hope* it never happens, but I want the option in a true SHTF scenario, to go off grid (or rather without the grid, since what we are talking here is loss of the grid). BTW, a very realistic SHTF scenario in western KS is a mother of all winter storms snapping 100's of REA era poles installed in the 1950's, requiring weeks or months to repair. In this scenario, I would harvest batteries from the many pieces of heavy machinery and rewire things to take it off grid. It does NOT need to be ready to go off grid with just a throw of a switch.
-- 200A 240v pass though would be nice, so that the system could grid tie during day, but meet large demands at other times (they use large motors for fans to dry grain at times, no solar system around can practically cover those occasional loads) But that might not be the way its used initially, since running the full enterprise load though the Hybrid inverter is sort of inviting bad things to happen. So long as the grid works, that's all not really needed. And if the grid is down, many of the large loads would be moot -- like drying your grain is sort of secondary to just keeping the heat on.......
-- Whatever system I end up with, I also want the ability to re-program it in a SHTF scenario without internet or app interface. I see that mentioned often, but not a lot of clear wisdom.


So today I've been trying to narrow down on what Hybrid inverter covers the needs. Seems there is a pretty wide range. The EG4-18 has lots of features, but would be considered less robust and refined than say the Sol Arc 15k Hybrid. And then, over on the MidNight page I see some prices that even I am a little taken aback. Farm can expense or depreciate this stuff. So I am willing to spend some $,$$$. Would prefer to stay clear of $$,$$$ if you follow me?

I've been trying to find threads and reviews and it gets daunting. Figured I'd ask again, but try to clarify in advance what my goals are, which are more defined now than a couple days ago.......

 

[niktak11]

Throw up a (or a few) Sol-Ark 15k and call it a day

 

[DIYrich]

If you don't think running the full enterprise load through the inverter is a good idea, then don't. Keep your large loads (which you won't power when grid is down) on the main panel, and move critical stuff to a sub panel after the inverter.

I'd spend the $3,000 for a 14kWh DIY battery. You will need to have wires to cobble together scavenged batteries in a bad situation. Might as well just put in a battery and not have to reprogram.

 

[Quattrohead]

SHTF scenario in western KS is a mother of all winter storms snapping 100's of REA era poles installed in the 1950's, requiring weeks or months to repair. In this scenario, I would harvest batteries from the many pieces of heavy machinery and rewire things to take it off grid. It does NOT need to be ready to go off grid with just a throw of a switch.

Big diesel generator, lots available at auctions etc. Sounds like you have plenty of fuel supply.

large motors for fans to dry grain at times, no solar system around can practically cover those occasional loads

Big diesel generator !!!

I am a big solar fan, building a high efficiency home that will be 100% solar powered. But there are limits unless you go full industrial.
It is not financially worth it for your senerio when you can get large gen sets on the used market.
Just my realistic opinion.

 

[Shimmy]

You could also look at Schneider XW-Pro 6848; two units plus their backup switch gives you a very robust system that can easily support large motors. (It does need a battery though.)

I will second the thought that you should install a modest battery up front. It just makes the system run better.

 

[cdherman]

Nice to get some thoughts. The complication for us is that isolating "critical loads" is nearly impossible at a structural level. Main farm operation, with a 200A feed, has multiple panels. It really defies all the usual advice. There are like 5 panels/boxes coming off the main meter with a main 200A breaker. A gen set transfer switch is in the mix before everything branches out. All of the work was sanctioned by the utility. One dedicated little breaker does nothing more than power the water well. But in a fire emergency, you don't want to shut the well off, so its got to be separate from all the others......

I am leaning towards putting heavy enough cables into the trench to the building where the solar would be, such that it could feed the entire enterprise. Later on, in a pinch, things can change. But $5000 versus $8000 in wiring is not worth discussing, Its clear that much. Leaning towards a modest solar install and AIO inverter that would never cover current day to day operations, but would be there for a longer term outage.

Big gens are not really what is needed. Farms in a SHTF scenario will cease to be business and move into a survival more. Need less power, but some.........

 

[rhino]

What are you defining as "critical loads"?

 

[robby]

Sol-Ark 15k sounds like the solution.

 

[64Impala]

Nice to get some thoughts. The complication for us is that isolating "critical loads" is nearly impossible at a structural level. Main farm operation, with a 200A feed, has multiple panels. It really defies all the usual advice. There are like 5 panels/boxes coming off the main meter with a main 200A breaker. A gen set transfer switch is in the mix before everything branches out. All of the work was sanctioned by the utility. One dedicated little breaker does nothing more than power the water well. But in a fire emergency, you don't want to shut the well off, so its got to be separate from all the others......

I am leaning towards putting heavy enough cables into the trench to the building where the solar would be, such that it could feed the entire enterprise. Later on, in a pinch, things can change. But $5000 versus $8000 in wiring is not worth discussing, Its clear that much. Leaning towards a modest solar install and AIO inverter that would never cover current day to day operations, but would be there for a longer term outage.

Big gens are not really what is needed. Farms in a SHTF scenario will cease to be business and move into a survival more. Need less power, but some.........

 

[64Impala]

For consideration Solar and grid isolation are code during grid down time the solar off grid system must isolate from the grid to not back feed it. Typically people use ATS or manual lockouts with breaker selection and a critical loads distribution. Solar and generator operation have a similar situation to deal with a grid tied solar system will come on when it sees a reference within its operational specification be that the grid or the generator. So critical panel isolation or lock out of generator input has to be considered, as a solution when running solar off grid. You’re in luck that many newer devices have an input for generator to work around/with off grid solar. In your case since you have isolation at the current grid / generator switching spot, you might be in position to have your solar electrical come to this location (AC) couple some sort of manual transfer switch and do some sort of triage down stream as to what can run during grid down while on the solar backup system - going around and manually shutting off stuff in those 5 panels to manage loads to fit within the designed batter backed solar system.

 

[watchdoc]

-Generac or other whole house generator is the cheapest and most reliable answer here but you have some other options.

-Sunrun Ford HIS system with your Lightning (both expensive and Ford only)

-You need specific neutral bonding transfer switch for your Lightning to power your house. Also, you only have 7.2kw available at the 220 outlet. This has been explored extensively on the F150 Lightning forum.

-Sol Ark 15k or EG4 12k both have 200amp service disconnects and both are capable of charging your Lightning from solar.

Try to keep it simple. You don't want to build a system that only YOU can operate during a SHTF event. Finally, don't count on favorable net metering policies for any length of time.

 

[cdherman]

-Generac or other whole house generator is the cheapest and most reliable answer here but you have some other options.

-Sunrun Ford HIS system with your Lightning (both expensive and Ford only)

-You need specific neutral bonding transfer switch for your Lightning to power your house. Also, you only have 7.2kw available at the 220 outlet. This has been explored extensively on the F150 Lightning forum.

-Sol Ark 15k or EG4 12k both have 200amp service disconnects and both are capable of charging your Lightning from solar.

Try to keep it simple. You don't want to build a system that only YOU can operate during a SHTF event. Finally, don't count on favorable net metering policies for any length of time.

I like your appraisal. In our situation, in several ways I just want to get a net metered installation in place. Out of fear they may even do away with it entirely, but grandfather the old installations. All the people dealing with utilities that refuse to allow a few watts back into the grid here and there is worrisome.....