Inverters that support high voltage (400v) storage batteries

[Rational]

Hi guys,

Second post. I'm in Japan (100v 60hz) and am researching the best inverter brand and model to buy for a DIY solar build.

I intend to connect a Leaf 24kWh battery to it for home storage. I'm a member of Dala's EV discord group but have additional questions.

So far I've been able to determine that I need a single phase inverter as that is what's used here in Japan. But very few brands support higher than 48v storage batteries as far as I can tell. Especially in single phase inverters.

Not sure if I will do grid tie right away but may want to later for net metering. So am researching options.

So far I've found Solis S6 11.4 and also heard about the FoxESS brand this past week. Any others I should be aware of? Any highly recommended?

I was originally interested in EG4 but I don't believe they handle 400v storage batteries yet, right? Same for Victron, correct?

I heard Victron and SMA are certified for use in Japan but if they don't offer a single phase model, nor HV storage support, I guess those brands are out.

Any ideas? Or is there another way to use those brands still by using two or something? I'm brand new to this so need to get my bearings.

Thank you if you can help.

Edit: Adding the spec sheets for these two inverters:

So far these are my two leading candidates for inverters. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if there might be better options or if these are even going to work. So wanted to ask here from experienced users.

Here's the Fox-ess page for single phase inverters for reference:

1-phase Hybrid Inventer – Welcome to Fox ESS

www.fox-ess.com

And the spec sheet:

https://www.fox-ess.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/US-H1-AC1-Datasheet-Non-US-Mainland-12.08.pdf

I'm reading that foxess uses the solax protocol, so maybe that's a good thing as it will have more support?



Just so we have the reference doc at the top of the thread for others, here is the spec sheet for the Solis S6 11.4:

https://ucarecdn.com/0aff2146-7c76-4124-b465-b5e13f22ab8d/Solis_S6EH1P38114KHUSV3_Hybrid_Datasheet1.pdf

 

[SeaGal]

Welcome. I have Solis in the UK, with 48V batteries.

I _thought_ (though I could be wrong) that the HV Solis inverters use some proprietary comms with the battery BMS which means that building a DIY battery system for them is either difficult or impossible. IIRC @Solar Guppy has experience with the HV Solis range, so might be worth searching on his threads.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Victron seem to be working on a hv inverter/charger due late this year early next, but the two issues being it's 3phase and battery voltage is 650-1000v other than that I'm unsure of what to suggest.

 

[DIYrich]

I think Japan is 100v/200v split phase. 50hz or 60hz depending upon location. If you are in the 60z area, A usa inverter may work and see low voltage.

See if growatt makes a japanese version. They have a HV battery grid tied version.

 

[kommando]

Solax Power do HV inverters for European market, they may do one for Japan. Euro version covers 80v to 480V.

 

[Rational]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the replies.

Welcome. I have Solis in the UK, with 48V batteries.

I _thought_ (though I could be wrong) that the HV Solis inverters use some proprietary comms with the battery BMS which means that building a DIY battery system for them is either difficult or impossible. IIRC @Solar Guppy has experience with the HV Solis range, so might be worth searching on his threads.

@SeaGal Thanks for that.

How do you like your Solis? How's the app quality and reliability? Good company? Good support? No issues overall?

Dala's 'battery-emulator' is able to fake being a supported battery. The Solis is on his list so it seems at least one person has gotten it working for it to be on the validated list.

I should have shared this earlier:

Battery-Emulator ​

GitHub - dalathegreat/Battery-Emulator: This software enables EV battery packs to be used for stationary storage in combination with solar inverters.

This software enables EV battery packs to be used for stationary storage in combination with solar inverters. - dalathegreat/Battery-Emulator

github.com

Supported inverters list​

Home

This software enables EV battery packs to be used for stationary storage in combination with solar inverters. - dalathegreat/Battery-Emulator

github.com

Supported batteries list​

Home

This software enables EV battery packs to be used for stationary storage in combination with solar inverters. - dalathegreat/Battery-Emulator

github.com

Also, adding @Daddy Tanuki since I was just conversing with you in my EV build thread and know you're in Japan here. Do you know anything about compatible model/brands of inverters for use here in Japan?

I was originally interested in Victron and EG4, but they don't make single phase inverters that handle HV ESS batteries of 380W+ like from my Nissan Leaf 24kWh pack. They only handle the typical 48v battery storage solutions it seems.

Looking for all input I can get on choosing components for a solar build.

 

[DIYrich]

Contact this guy to find out what he used:

HOME | PlugOut Power, Generator for hybrid vehicles | United States

Hybrid and plug-in vehicles can become power generators for the home using the PlugOut inverter.

www.plugoutpower.com

 

[Solar Guppy]

I have a pair of Solis S6's ( S6-EH1P11.4K-H-US ) running in parallel and think they are the best value available and features one could hope for at a price one third the Sol-Ark or 18kpv commonly discussed on this forum.

I can also confirm that if your HV battery ( or bms ) can do this protocol selected as "Lithium battery HV" from the Solis app battery settings you will have full CAN battery communications. There are of course plug and play options, like the Pylontech H1 or BYD HVL that meet UL9540.

In my case, I'm running the Seplos HItens ( pair in parallel for 40kwh ) just received with are half the cost of the UL9540 options. The Hitens for the Solis S6 come in 10kwh, 15kwh and 20kwh options

I worked with Seplos and Solis to get the CAN communications tested before purchase. I'm also really liking the Seplos provided BMSTool one can configure just about any setting imageable unlike the black box UL9540 options.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I think Japan is 100v/200v split phase. 50hz or 60hz depending upon location. If you are in the 60z area, A usa inverter may work and see low voltage.

See if growatt makes a japanese version. They have a HV battery grid tied version.

50/60 hertz makes no difference here unless you are feeding to grid tie. japan grid tie is a joke, anything over 9.9kw and you are considered commercial and are required to sell all you make to them and then buy back so avoid it like the plague unless you stay under the 9.9 kw limit. I run Magnum MS-PAE 4448's and feed 120/240 to all of my Japanese appliances with no issues. having higher voltage is not much of an issue, motors run cooler more efficient no real downside.

going the other way is an issue trying to run a 120 or 240 volt item on 100/200 can fry things as Ohm's Law is a real PITA. voltage goes down, load is the same in watts so Amps go up and stuff gets hot.

if you are not backfeeding to grid, and want to charge your EV and run a few select circuits in the house (Okinawa... A/C cough...cough) then run a circuit for that only and do not bother to grid tie. just run separate power lines from your inverter to the split pack you want to power and plant a box right next to the tepco outlet. if your system goes down just unplug from your circuit and plug into their's... no way you can back feed...it falls under extension cord...

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Also, adding @Daddy Tanuki since I was just conversing with you in my EV build thread and know you're in Japan here. Do you know anything about compatible model/brands of inverters for use here in Japan?

I was originally interested in Victron and EG4, but they don't make single phase inverters that handle HV ESS batteries of 380W+ like from my Nissan Leaf 24kWh pack. They only handle the typical 48v battery storage solutions it seems.

Looking for all input I can get on choosing components for a solar build.

sorry i never looked at high voltage only 48v systems. i started on 12 volt system about 13-14 years ago and when I built my offgrid house's system i jumped up to 48 as there were nothing higher at the time and the lets grab a EV battery and hack it crowd did not exist at the time.

 

[Solar Guppy]

The BIG issue with even 48V battery systems is the current ( amperage ) draw become expensive and unmanageable when trying to do utility replacement wattage level systems. This is where 400V batteries, which have been out now for ~6 years really shine. For example, my dual Solis S6 are rated for 11.4kw each ( street price is ~$2300 USD ), so the pair is 22.8kw which at 400V is 57 amps, at 48V, your looking at 475 amps which is really expensive on the wire and accessories to implement.

My belief is HV batteries will be the dominate architecture for residential settings and even today with UL 9540 HV batteries being expensive the cost is a wash on the complete system when balance of system and the large difference is inverter costs ( savings with HV ) are considered.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Hi guys,

Second post. I'm in Japan (100v 60hz) and am researching the best inverter brand and model to buy for a DIY solar build.

The Solis S6 ( S6-EH1P11.4K-H-US ) is completely configurable on all parameters for the grid profile and should work for the Japan voltages and frequencies but no idea on the rules for being gridtie in that country.

 

[SeaGal]

I can also confirm that if your HV battery ( or bms ) can do this protocol selected as "Lithium battery HV" from the Solis app battery settings you will have full CAN battery communications. There are of course plug and play options, like the Pylontech H1 or BYD HVL that meet UL9540.

That's good to know - have updated my internal memory on that subject now, thanks.

How do you like your Solis?

I liked it so much I bought a second one last year to run in parallel with the first

How's the app quality and reliability?

Never touched the app - heard it can be flaky. I just avoid any external comms out of my control, so mine is not connected to any Chinese cloud. But I have built my own BMS to Solis CAN comms controller to interface to my DIY battery pack and also retrieve all the data I need via Modbus RTU over the Solis RS485 comms port.

Good company?

They must be doing something right to be one of the top few inverter manufacturers around - established for a long time too.

Good support?

I haven't needed any actual support, which I see as a good thing. When I did submit a general query about interconnecting the 2nd inverter I got back sub 24h detailed technical feedback via their online support portal.

No issues overall?

None so far - has performed fine for the 2 years I've had solar.

 

[jpwhit]

GoodWe is on the supported inverter list. I've used their Hybrid HV battery inverters and have been very pleased with them.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

The BIG issue with even 48V battery systems is the current ( amperage ) draw become expensive and unmanageable when trying to do utility replacement wattage level systems. This is where 400V batteries, which have been out now for ~6 years really shine. For example, my dual Solis S6 are rated for 11.4kw each ( street price is ~$2300 USD ), so the pair is 22.8kw which at 400V is 57 amps, at 48V, your looking at 475 amps which is really expensive on the wire and accessories to implement.

My belief is HV batteries will be the dominate architecture for residential settings and even today with UL 9540 HV batteries being expensive the cost is a wash on the complete system when balance of system and the large difference is inverter costs ( savings with HV ) are considered.

basically the same reasons that was used back in the day to support going with 48 over 12. lighter wiring and interconnects pretty much makes up the difference in cost.

 

[SilverbackMP]

The BIG issue with even 48V battery systems is the current ( amperage ) draw become expensive and unmanageable when trying to do utility replacement wattage level systems. This is where 400V batteries, which have been out now for ~6 years really shine. For example, my dual Solis S6 are rated for 11.4kw each ( street price is ~$2300 USD ), so the pair is 22.8kw which at 400V is 57 amps, at 48V, your looking at 475 amps which is really expensive on the wire and accessories to implement.

My belief is HV batteries will be the dominate architecture for residential settings and even today with UL 9540 HV batteries being expensive the cost is a wash on the complete system when balance of system and the large difference is inverter costs ( savings with HV ) are considered.

For 48v ssystems, there is the MidNite Solar 2000A Battery Combiner Box that should, in theory, support 400A @ 240.

But higher voltage would be more efficient.

Personally I’m a chicken shit and it looks like I’m trying to diffuse a bomb when finishing up a 48v DIY pack.

 

[Rational]

Thanks guys.

I've added the spec sheets for the two inverters I've found so far to the top post here for future reference. This might helps others also searching.

 

[myles]

High voltage batteries are the way of the future for sure! If the diy lifepo4 BMS world could support 100 cells in series. You'd be at 480v nominal! What could possibly go wrong

 

[Rational]

Haha. Yep.

Good thing the car makers already designed and included a robust BMS inside their packs. This makes it SO much easier and more reliable. As well as safe in not having to open up the packs. This is the way to go.

 

[Solar Guppy]

High voltage batteries are the way of the future for sure! If the diy lifepo4 BMS world could support 100 cells in series. You'd be at 480v nominal! What could possibly go wrong

The standard 128 cells in series is ~409V nominal and Orion makes a HV BMS and has for many years, they just cost $1500- $2000.

The Hitens I have are lower cost than a DYI and you get a dual metal casing ( cells are in a metal box within the battery boxes ), display, full canbus support for multi inverters brands, can configure just about any conceivable feature to ones needs with the bmstool software only down side is it's not the UL9540/A but neither is a DYI plywood boxes

Here is some photo's they sent me when they were building my units showing the inside:

 

[SeaGal]

High voltage batteries are the way of the future for sure! If the diy lifepo4 BMS world could support 100 cells in series. You'd be at 480v nominal! What could possibly go wrong

I think if you charge each cell to 4.8V a lot could go wrong

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

High voltage batteries are the way of the future for sure! If the diy lifepo4 BMS world could support 100 cells in series. You'd be at 480v nominal! What could possibly go wrong

WAIT...ARE YOU CHALLENGING ME?

 

[myles]

Wow must have had mush brain when I wrote that post! 100 batteries 3.2v each = 320V.

I do like the idea of smaller gauge battery cables though!

 

[1201]

I have a pair of Solis S6's ( S6-EH1P11.4K-H-US ) running in parallel and think they are the best value available and features one could hope for at a price one third the Sol-Ark or 18kpv commonly discussed on this forum.

I can also confirm that if your HV battery ( or bms ) can do this protocol selected as "Lithium battery HV" from the Solis app battery settings you will have full CAN battery communications. There are of course plug and play options, like the Pylontech H1 or BYD HVL that meet UL9540.

In my case, I'm running the Seplos HItens ( pair in parallel for 40kwh ) just received with are half the cost of the UL9540 options. The Hitens for the Solis S6 come in 10kwh, 15kwh and 20kwh options

I worked with Seplos and Solis to get the CAN communications tested before purchase. I'm also really liking the Seplos provided BMSTool one can configure just about any setting imageable unlike the black box UL9540 options.

View attachment 223107 View attachment 223110

Is this a plug and play solution? Ie the hitens battery communicates with the s6 workout any programming?

 

[42OhmsPA]

I'm surprised Sandi Inverter wasn't mentioned yet.
They are at the top of my list if/when the addiction drives me to high voltage packs.