Will this work to charge my Chins 100 amp batteries for first use?

[Nevadablue]

I decided to follow the advice I got here and set up my house system for a 24 volt battery.
I now have a 24 volt inverter (without charger).
I have six 100 amp 12 volt Chins batteries.
I am told I should charge each battery before putting it in the bank.
So… I don’t have a charger and don’t really want to spend a fortune to charge these things so I can use them. Also, it would be nice to have a useable charger for emergencies.

So… why can’t I take the Renogy Adventurer charge controller I have (30 amp PWM) and hook my battery charger to it instead of solar panels, and connect that to the batteries. Chins just recommended to me to use a Renogy charger (or Vectron) because of the voltage options available. The Adventurer is Li capable and has user settings available to let me match it to the battery.

Will it work? Sure seems like a simple solution and one that also gives me the capability of charging the batteries with a generator in a dire emergency. (Days of no sun for example).

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I decided to follow the advice I got here and set up my house system for a 24 volt battery.
I now have a 24 volt inverter (without charger).
I have six 100 amp 12 volt Chins batteries.
I am told I should charge each battery before putting it in the bank.

You were told correctly.

So… I don’t have a charger and don’t really want to spend a fortune to charge these things so I can use them. Also, it would be nice to have a useable charger for emergencies.

So… why can’t I take the Renogy Adventurer charge controller I have (30 amp PWM) and hook my battery charger to it instead of solar panels, and connect that to the batteries.

I'm confused. Do you have a charger or not?

Note that PWM controllers work by shorting the source to the battery thus only 24V panels can be used on a 24V system. 24V panels can be used on a 12V system, but they are forced to work at battery voltage and thus produce < 50% of rated power.

Chins just recommended to me to use a Renogy charger (or Vectron) because of the voltage options available. The Adventurer is Li capable and has user settings available to let me match it to the battery.

They likely recommended the use of MPPT because there's some mis-match in your system for charging 12V. Also, few choose to trust LFP batteries to PWM controllers.

Will it work? Sure seems like a simple solution and one that also gives me the capability of charging the batteries with a generator in a dire emergency. (Days of no sun for example).

You haven't provided enough info to answer.

 

[Nevadablue]

I don’t have a 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC charger for the Chins batteries. I have several ordinary 12 volt battery chargers.

I do have the PWM charge controller. I want to be able to charge the batteries from line power if I need to, and for the initial charge before use.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I don’t have a 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC charger for the Chins batteries. I have several ordinary 12 volt battery chargers.

What's the difference? A 12V charger is essentially a 12V charger. You don't need a special charger for the Chins. LFP are essentially drop-in replacements for AGM batteries. Do you have the specs of your chargers? If they'll charge to 14.4-14.6V, you're good.

I do have the PWM charge controller. I want to be able to charge the batteries from line power if I need to, and for the initial charge before use.

Are you thinking you can charge 24V by inputting 12V into a PWM controller? Per above, PWM works by shorting the source to the battery. Won't work.

 

[Nevadablue]

No, not planning on charging 24 volt strings. I need to charge the batteries initially according to Winnie at Chins. Each battery needs to be charged.
They do not like anything over 14.6 volts and prefer that we use 14.4 volt chargers.

I just found a Swedish made charger that is only for this type of battery and charges a max of 14.4 volts.

https://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-926-LITHIUM-Automatic-Phosphate/dp/B00EUF6UM8/ref=sr_1_22?crid=HYZLJ5QUSQC8&keywords=life+po4+lithium+battery+charger+solar&qid=1664339936&sprefix=Lithium+solar+battery+charger%2Caps%2C569&sr=8-22&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

I may just get this one. It appears to do what I need.

I also read up on DC to DC chargers and it appears that using an MPPT charger controller with a battery charger powering it would also work.

 

[Herb]

Hello, so this is what I do, just my way and works for me, you can use basically any AC to DC charger, 12v and to speed things up a little with no less than 10 Amps if you want to keep the cost down. I use the Victron, one output 30 Amps and I configure the bank in parallel, so the charger takes a while but all batteries are pretty much charged up equally. Just set it and forget it. For the first charge you might want to do a bottom balance first, then a top balance, is a lot of work but it will give you a better balanced bank after you finish, I do this every 6 months and the bank stays pretty much balanced. I have the same batteries as you do. some will tell you not to go all the way down until the BMS shuts the battery down, but I do for the initial bottom balance, since the batteries are new I want to test to make sure the low voltage cutoff is working. I do the same for the top, just on that initial balancing cycle, remember that. Some say the batteries will fall apart before they loose all their capacity, I feel the same way. With the way technology changes now a days it won't be long before the come up with a battery that will last a lifetime, and cheaper too! So just to be clear. On the initial balance cycle, since the batteries are shipped with approx. 30% SOC the first thing I do is check the voltage to make sure the BMS is active. Second, I bottom balance them, until they hit low voltage cutoff. I check the voltage again, you might have to isolate the batteries don't have them in a bank. If the BMS tripped it should recover after a few minutes once the voltage creeps up. If not you might have to put a small charge so it can trip the BMS on again. After all the batteries have been bottom balanced set them up in parallel, all cables should be of the same specs, length, AWG, copper lugs, etc.. for 48v 2 AWG cable is recommended. I use 6 1/2 in. center to center of the lug opening. Fits the batteries nice and clean and just the right length. Connect the 12v charger terminals to the batteries (in parallel) you got six batteries so try to connect the positive clamp or terminal to the first positive + < [ ] [ ] [ ] - and the negative to + [ ] [ ] [ ] - < or at the end of each positive and negative terminal, I have a 2p4s bank but is basically the same principle, you want the charge to be applied as evenly as possible since is going to be a slooow charge at 10 Amps remember each battery will get some of that amperage, so maybe approx 1.5 amps per battery at the same time and is going to take some time, like a few days. Or if you want to speed things up, Aims got a a 12v 75 Amps charger but it will charge them up nicely and faster. I use a Victron and is quiet, the output can be adjusted and has BT and an app to monitor everything is a little pricey but is a good charger. Beware of cheap chargers some are a fire risk. Victron has a great document on how to setup the batteries and how to charge them correctly, and you can find it here just do a search. I have attached a pic of the way I hook them up in series parallel the Pos is on the left center of the 2 banks and the Neg also. Please comment, let me know if I goofed up something.

 

[Substrate]

Dude, you spent a little over $2K for the Chins, why go the McGyver route and not get a proper charger?

That little Swedish auto-charger is too wimpy to do the job, and if set wrong can possibly wreck the bms with lead-acid desulfation pulses.

Here's a quickie - how about a 20A simple CC/CV charger designed for LFP with a milder CV of 14.4v and no lead-acid features like float? On amazon and elsewhere. Cheaper than the Swedish automobile type charger too. Oh yeah, bms reset too. Nothing to set or get wrong. Just clamp and plug in.

ExpertPower EPC 1220

Don't cheap out here unless you're trying to get off Gilligan's Island.

And should work fine with your generator. However I haven't tested it for the power-factor, but I don't think you'll be using it for repetetive cycling that way.

 

[Nevadablue]

Thanks VERY much for the advice and for taking the time to explain all this @Herb .
@Substrate , I’m off to look at that charger now.

 

[Substrate]

For us charger geeks - on the expertpower, once the charge finishes (or hopefully not if the Chins bms disconnects from a runner cell), you will see 14.6v at the terminal with that open circuit. That's normal, and represents the bms reset. Most normal chargers without bms reset upon seeing an open circuit will not provide voltage at all.

It has a tail-current end of charge at around 1 to 1.5A. So it tries to be on the conservative side and depending on the capacity of the battery (like your Chins), it will not be a truly full charge. A subsequent discharge and recharge with your normal charging setup will be taken care of with slight balancing of the Chin's bms itself.

The advertised CV of 14.4v happens only with a battery load. After a successful charge, or upon a bms disconnect, you may see the slightly elevated 14.6v.

Heh, just to avoid any possible conspiracy issues.

 

[Nevadablue]

Dude, you spent a little over $2K for the Chins, why go the McGyver route and not get a proper charger?

That little Swedish auto-charger is too wimpy to do the job, and if set wrong can possibly wreck the bms with lead-acid desulfation pulses.

Here's a quickie - how about a 20A simple CC/CV charger designed for LFP with a milder CV of 14.4v and no lead-acid features like float? On amazon and elsewhere. Cheaper than the Swedish automobile type charger too. Oh yeah, bms reset too. Nothing to set or get wrong. Just clamp and plug in.

ExpertPower EPC 1220

Don't cheap out here unless you're trying to get off Gilligan's Island.

And should work fine with your generator. However I haven't tested it for the power-factor, but I don't think you'll be using it for repetetive cycling that way.

The charger should be here Monday they say. The solar panel array is scheduled to be installed on Saturday. One of my sons is coming to help me do that. Also, the 24 volt inverter arrived today.

 

[Substrate]

Sweet! And my apologies for coming off a bit short.

Note that yes, the fan is a bit loud. Garage charging ok, but on the kitchen table - might be a bit annoying. Don't short the clamps - I haven't taken the time to test for that yet.

 

[Nevadablue]

We got the panels installed today. Still need to make the tilt mechanism and do the wiring. Note the handy SHADE that made working easier. Arrggg. This is the only place suitable for panels. Now the tree will need to be topped. For now, it is OK, we lose about 2 hours of full sun a day.



All 24 volt Panels. The top row (on the left) is four 185 watt panels.
The bottom row is three 200 watt panels.

 

[cs1234]

I don't understand, maybe those other locations aren't as great, but they look like they could hold some panels to me.

 

[Nevadablue]

Everything else is too far away or the house roof. I didn’t want to mess with the roof. The tree needs trimmed anyway, it is too tall and has some health issues. The leaves will leave soon and then it won’t be such an issue.
I’m planning on tilting the panels about 36 degrees. Summer here calls for 45 degrees and winter 32, so for now I’ll set them at 36. Maybe adjustable later.

 

[cs1234]

Ok, it's just that you said "the only place suitable for panels", which made me wonder what I was missing. I can understand not wanting to drill them into your roof.

 

[Substrate]

Wow - thanks for keeping us up with your build. I'm almost as excited as you are!

I'm a little freaked out by the dry wood under the flat panels, (don't know how much space there is) but if you tilt them I'd feel better. Be sure you don't leave your cabling on them, especially any MC4 connectors, which can get very hot if they aren't the perfect fit with each other. (ie, slightly mismatched oem specs between different manufacturers can develop into high-resistance contacts later.)

 

[Nevadablue]

The panels will be tilted. There is way too much going on right now for the old man to do, but I have designed the brackets and legs for setting the angle. I need to get out to the shop and do some cutting and welding.
The panels won’t be connected to anything until they are tilted. The cables will be run in a metal raceway too.

 

[Nevadablue]

Well, my beautiful tree (trees are precious in the desert) will be getting a haircut. This will actually be good for it and it will still provide yard shade and will no longer shade the panels. The proposed cut… trimmer coming next month to do the deed.



The green line is his ‘agreement’. I like this method. He takes a pic and marks it, then there is no question about what is to be done.

I have started charging the Chins batteries. Too much going on here, and I am slower than slow.