80+ year old Mother-In-Law 26 solar panels and Two batteries

[idanny76]

There is also a fairly active Powerwall community on the Teslamotorsclub forum that can give you a clue to which settings can give her the optimal benefit. If Sunrun hasn't kept it for themselves, Tesla is also enrolling Powerwall users into VPP (Virtual Power Plant).

Looking at the solar tab only the app..... it seems she is giving energy back to the power company.

 

[Mattb4]

Your first screenshot shows 28.4kwh developed for the day. It also states that this covered 85% of household needs. I would say something is working. Now is it working at full potential? I don't know.

 

[Ampster]

it seems she is giving energy back to the power company.

Is that solar energy direct or stored solar energy from the battery?

 

[Vigo]

So... this sounds... horrendous.

I enjoy talking about solar but from the list of downsides and gotchas you spelled out.. I would be in 'preserving the evidence' mode and not touching anything in worry of the company trying to counter-hassle me for tinkering with things THEY OWN, when we're in the court i'm going to try to drag them to.

I get there's a whole background to this that i had not heard of so I'm sure there's some kind of 'legal precedent' established about getting out of this.. or not.

I guess i'm lucky I live right next to my parents and have a whole off-grid electrical system. I'd like to think that might convince them to run things by me before they ever talk to a solar salesman.. It has already 'worked' in the sense of one aunt and several in-laws either not pursuing a 25 year solar deal, or backing out at the last second, because i happened to be available to talk to about it. And i doubt those deals were even as bad as this!! Not that every other scam in the world doesn't still exist.. But hopefully i won't suffer this one.

I really hope you can make the best of this, and sorry you ended up in this position!

 

[Ampster]

I can commiserate because five years ago my daughter and her husband purchased a home with a Solar City leased solar system on it. I tried to give her and her husband some clues and ideas about negotiating something to get out of the lease, she was three months pregnant and this was her dream home so you can imagine how that went? Fortunately their deal is not as onerous as this Sunrun deal and they have the income to handle that expense. I tried to encuorage them to look at one of the five year options for purchase that came up a few years ago but with two young kids and other priorities nothing came of it.

 

[idanny76]

Is that solar energy direct or stored solar energy from the battery?

I couldn't tell.... that's below my pay grade lol. All I can see is that from the home screen.... the direction of the power was going back out to the grid and the home, because the battery was 100% charged. The panels were generating more than she was consuming and the extra was being sent back to the grid, since the battery was fully charged.

It seems she is generating more than enough power from the panels to cover her usage, charge the battery and give back to the grid. I will see how it goes after she starts getting billed from the Utility company.

 

[Bud Martin]

You may want to contact local TV station that exposes company that takes advantage of senior.

 

[Ampster]

I couldn't tell.... that's below my pay grade lol. All I can see is that from the home screen.... the direction of the power was going back out to the grid and the home, because the battery was 100% charged. The panels were generating more than she was consuming and the extra was being sent back to the grid, since the battery was fully charged

Normally Powerwalls do not export battery power to the grid so that is a safe assumption. I think if she signed up for VPP, Tesla would notify her(you). Also I have not heard of any recent VPP events like I did in early September. If she is with PG&E and has a login, you can see daily consumption on an hourly basis on the website. It usually takes a few days to upload.

 

[idanny76]

Update:
My mother-in-law just got her bill from Luma Energy of $218. So, I did a chat online with SunRun through her account and they said she does not have Permission to Operate yet. Then my questions is...... How can she get a bill of $218 from Luma Energy, when all this time she has been using her solar system? I did some searching and found out that if the meter has not been switched and she has the solar system running without PTO..... the meter will count her solar usage as from the grid, because the meter cannot go backwards. Meaning that if all her usage was solar.... the meter will read it as it being from Luma Energy. Is that correct?

 

[Ampster]

Is that correct?

I don;t know about Luma. With PG&E before the PTO the Net solar backfeed is not measured just the net comsumption. So during the day when the solar exceeds consumption the meter shows zero. After the PTO the solar production shows up. Your mileage may differ

 

[SolarRich]

I've read in other posts here I think? That some mechanical meters will run only in one direction no matter which way the power is flowing. The power company should be installing a meter that keeps track of incoming and outgoing power.

 

[OzSolar]

Meaning that if all her usage was solar.... the meter will read it as it being from Luma Energy. Is that correct?

That's correct for all the utilities around me in Missouri. They count everything as energy bought from the utility until they installed a different meter or enable the net metering function.

 

[offgriddave]

sorry of topic, but my mother had a stroke a few years ago but was OK. I always call her and tell her about what I'm doing (like solar). One of these scammy solar companies walked up to her and sold her a ridicilous system, I think because of my inspiration. The thing is, she is not mentally capable of signing agreements. My sister and I didn't feel we needed a power of attorney, but we are PISSED. is there anything we can do about it?
Edit: oh also, she needs a new roof and my sister and I were putting our funds together for the next few years. They walked up there and just f it all up....

 

[OzSolar]

sorry of topic, but my mother had a stroke a few years ago but was OK. I always call her and tell her about what I'm doing (like solar). One of these scammy solar companies walked up to her and sold her a ridicilous system, I think because of my inspiration. The thing is, she is not mentally capable of signing agreements. My sister and I didn't feel we needed a power of attorney, but we are PISSED. is there anything we can do about it?
Edit: oh also, she needs a new roof and my sister and I were putting our funds together for the next few years. They walked up there and just f it all up....

Oh gawd... so sorry to hear that.

My advice is don't make any payments and close the account it's being auto drafted from if you have to. You'd better get a limited POA but probably a durable.

One of the most basic parts of a contract is that the signee has to know what they are getting into. EG: "must be a capable party". It's on the solar company to prove that she was, not on you to prove your mother wasn't capable. See the difference? Make them do the work. Your goal is to make it clear that they will have to do more work than it's worth. Yes, this going to be your new hobby, sorry.

Every so often I get in pissing matches at work with vendors that screw up. We have some high powered (and nasty to be honest) lawyers and I've learned a lot from them. Most of the time I just draft up an email to have them proofread and make suggestions behind the scenes before I send it. Don't "lawyer up" until you have to and I don't think you need to.

 

[Mjs]

For any senior stuck with one of these leases I would suggest contacting your State or local advocate for the elderly or maybe State AG. This is a scam on elderly people who do not understand the implications of what they are agreeing to. A private attorney if you can afford it.

Jmho, not legal advice

 

[idanny76]

I got some answers from the sales person and he will talk with the techs to check the system and make sure everything is working ok. He explained the PTO has not been approved. The house has a analog meter and needs to be changed to a digital meter and then activated in the Luma Energy system to start registering the power given back to the grid. He explained that since the PTO has not been approved and the house was running on the solar system...... Luma estimated the usage and bill the customer because they see no usage by the customer... obviously because its on Solar. The sales person did not seem to care that the solar system was being used without the PTO. He said that I could file a billing complain about the bill being estimated. How can you complain to Luma Energy that you have been on solar without having a PTO?

Another question I asked him was about how the Tesla App had data without the house having internet. He said they most likely put a TPLink antenna device that scans for possible open wifi connections and it seems to be connecting on and off. He recommended that they get like a hotspot for the solar system only. That at least explained why the app data had missing data during the day. I believe the meter has been shut off and she is basically just running on the Solar system without the PTO. Its a huge mess and I dont recommend elderly people installing solar systems that they cannot manage or understand.

 

[Vigo]

Not asking permission to datamine you and report back to the mothership fits right in. I wouldnt be entirely surprised if it didn’t even need wifi. Something about mesh networking. Bleh.

 

[RCinFLA]

Another question I asked him was about how the Tesla App had data without the house having internet. He said they most likely put a TPLink antenna device that scans for possible open wifi connections and it seems to be connecting on and off.

It would be very inexpensive for Tesla to have an arrangement with Xfinity, T-mobile, or other carriers to provide data link using hot spots or cell network. This is used in their EV's also.

All Xfinity private cable modems with wifi supplied by Xfinity automatically use your internet connection to provide their Hotspot network, so your paid internet service is providing hot spot service for others. T-mobile smartphones connected to your wifi will normally use wifi data/text and VoIP first, avoiding putting traffic on their over the air network.

Google has mapped the location of just about every readable wifi SSID to assist in their smartphone GPS location. Only way to stop it is to disable 'broadcast SSID' in your wifi switch. This is part of their contracted roaming vehicle picture taking for 'street view' in Google Maps. The vehicles taking the pictures also have wifi sniffing antennas and GPS antennas to put it all together.

Utillity smart meters uses a combination of these paths. They just change out the comm module for the local situation. Some utilities, usually rural areas, actually have their own distributed network for data links. Smart meters can also relay data between smart meters to get data back to the mothership.